# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1021 "2014-03-11T00:06:08Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You said you had a list of potential scum, not a list that contained at least one scum. To me there’s a difference. A list of potential scum would be a list of players who have the option or capability to become scum and it would be possible for no one on the list to be scum. As it is, you’re still playing a risky game. There’s only a 50% chance that you even have the name of one scummer and I don’t even know how to calculate the odds that scum are going to claim a real name instead of a cover name. You could very well lynch everyone whose name is on your list and not hit a single scum. Ah, I see. Yes, it is a list that definitely contains at least one scum, not merely a list of 5 names where all 5 might not be scum. Oh, I know the odds are also there that none are scum because my clue is false, but I am still shooting into that pool because it is the best case I have right now. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1022 "2014-03-11T03:12:08Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > **Welcome to the game; you are Brian Donner** > > […] > > …an ordinary carpenter… > > […] Alright, this agrees with my clue, which told me that you were A) in the game and B) “a carpenter by trade.” My clue is now “true,” whether you’re scum or not, since as a game designer I would count a false identity as still “in the game.” Make with this info what you will. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > At every point during this game he has made every effort to cause the wrong thing to happen. This is maaaaaybe hyperbole, right? I think my case-making, right or wrong, can be defended based on the evidence available. I still contend that TexCat was a bad lynch at the time, and I’m (now) glad we ignored me. Other people cottoned to the clues better than I did. These things happen. * * * Making a vote count, then I’m gonna do a little scum digging. Should be fun! ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1023 "2014-03-11T03:22:00Z")
**Vote Count** Darth Sensitive (3): DaphneBlack, Idle Thoughts, septimus septimus (2): DaphneBlack, Idle Thoughts Mahaloth (2): sinjin, DiggitCamara Inner Stickler (2): Mahaloth, sinjin Astral Rejection (1): Askthepizzaguy pleonast (1): septimus Askthepizzaguy (1): DiggitCamara, septimus ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1024 "2014-03-11T04:06:52Z")
First things first, **sinjin:** > [@sinjin](#): > > **vote Mahaloth** > > **vote Inner Stickler** You’re voting for Inner Stickler, whom Mahaloth is voting for, and both are potentially serious lynch candidates. In Days 1 or 2, I’d give this a pass. Today, no dice. Do you suspect them as both being scum, and further suspect scum Mahaloth is trying to establish townie cred by voting for scum Inner? If not, how do you justify voting for both? By Day 4, I personally need better justification for a vote like this. At the very least, can you tell me which you’d prefer? And while we’re on the subject of your voting history, it bothers me that you made the fourth vote of the game (for Mahaloth and Askthepizzaguy) in post 149, and didn’t see fit to cast another vote the rest of the first Day. In Day 2, you made another earlyish vote for a trio of people, and then unvoted in favor of Chronos later. In Day 3, you cast a one-off for Inner Stickler, who was under no serious lynch pressure, and then didn’t cast a vote for any of our lynch leaders again. I took a quick read through your posting history in this game, and while you’ve given a plausible explanation for your absence (training, which I hope is going well!), you don’t do much of any scum hunting in Days 2, 3, or 4. You seriously question Pizza and Idle on subsequent days, but don’t renew your vote on pizza or cast a first for Idle, which pings me. At this point, you deserve a vote. **Vote sinjin.** * * * **LightFoot** also troubles me. I had [a solid case](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17118495&postcount=440) on her on Day 1, which as far as I know she has never responded to or even acknowledged. Johnny Bravo agreed with the case, and cast the final vote of the Day for her. While a Day 1 scum kill could happen for any particular reason, It’s not a total stretch to posit a scum team wanting to clear suspicion on her by killing one town suspector (is that a word?) and hoping to lead a lynch of the other (me). Coupled with his hint that his clue was a good one, and I could see that being enough for a scum decision for a Day 1 kill. Normally, I wouldn’t need to go back to a Day 1 case and scum kill to illustrate scumminess, but LightFoot hasn’t done much of else of note all game. She cast a vote for Chronos (like we all did)… and disappeared. I find that suspicious as well. **Vote LightFoot.** Does anybody have a credible guess for why Silver Jan might have been targetted, by the way? * * * > [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > I’m glad that there’s a counterexample to what I saw. I was mentally lumping the names in with the clues under “be careful what you share”. Do you just accept that I’m town as claimed? This kind of bothers me. I could be lying, you know; only scum would accept without reservation my claim, since they would know I have no reason to lie. It also bothers me that it didn’t occur to you to question Mahaloth until I prodded you into it. If this was your real identity (and not, say, a cover role you’ve barely considered), I would have expected you to already think your way through the implications of your clue. **Vote Darth Sensitive.** ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1025 "2014-03-11T04:10:59Z")
[url=[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17165980&postcount=903](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17165980&postcount=903)[:dubious: > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sorry, I missed this as I was focused on other things. > > **I’m a cab driver.** This matches my clue - so we can mark mine down as true. > [@DaphneBlack](#): > > I do know that **septimus** did not perform the scum kill yesterday. > [@DaphneBlack](#): > > **Askthepizzaguy** is named Brian Donner. On night two, he did nothing. Do you have a character name for **septimus**? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1026 "2014-03-11T04:26:23Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Do you just accept that I’m town as claimed? This kind of bothers me. I could be lying, you know; only scum would accept without reservation my claim, since they would know I have no reason to lie. It also bothers me that it didn’t occur to you to question Mahaloth until I prodded you into it. If this was your real identity (and not, say, a cover role you’ve barely considered), I would have expected you to already think your way through the implications of your clue. > > **Vote Darth Sensitive.** Nothing in there says I thought you were town. I am willing to conditionally accept the fact that you have a one time use power. Either you’ll use it tonight as you said or you won’t. Either way, when you did, you’ll flip as something other than VT, or you’ll be a dead liar. There’s a small chance than an investigative role will find something out that outs you as a living liar who will possibly get lynched. But I’m willing to accept that you have a random name that isn’t pure vanilla. That’s all I said. And I’ll be honest. I thought my clue was only useful as a gotcha if something odd came out, especially when compared to the other revealed clues. I didn’t really thing about the logic puzzles involved in clue puzzling until after I worked on the **lightfoot** / **pizza** issue. I’ll admit to not fully thinking that through until the other day. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1027 "2014-03-11T04:37:54Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > > [@TexCat](#): > > > > […] > > > > CLUE: There is a Scum player who does not have access to the Scum boards at the outset of the game. The majority of the Scum do not know this. > > I don’t believe your claim and here’s why: > > Because I have that same clue, only it’s different (regarding one word)…so I think **JohnnyBravo** had the same clue that I do and you changed it to make it sound better than it is because you’re scum. > That’s for one. > For two, what on EARTH made you think this was a good thing to share? Now you know precisely why I didn’t want to share mine. My reasons for not wanting to tell them this clue was because PUBLICALLY telling scum that there’s a secret scum player among them **DOES NOTHING TO HELP TOWN.** Nothing. Benefit is nada. What good does it do? _It changes nothing._ Info is still the same for Town which is: There are an unknown number of scum that have to be killed. > > But for SCUM…well, now they KNOW something they didn’t know before. They are the only ones who gain new information with this reveal. It only benefits them, it doesn’t benefit Town in any way to know that. > Anyway, that was MY reasoning for not revealing the clue (which, again, isn’t exactly the same as the one you found–there’s a key word in mine that changes things considerably…but that STILL only benefits Scum and not Town). > > YOU, on the other hand…I think you’re scum who thought that sharing this would be a good idea and give you Town cred. > > Well, I don’t believe it. > I think you’re scum. I have heartburn from this post. It seems like a lot of aggression towards someone already assuredly being lynched. If Idle Thoughts is already suggesting TexCat is scum, there’s no additional scum value for posting about in the main thread; by the rules (and the nature of the game), scum can talk during the Day, suggesting a scum TexCat has already shared the clue with her scum buddies. This line in particular… [INDENT][INDENT]“For two, what on EARTH made you think this was a good thing to share? Now you know precisely why I didn’t want to share mine. My reasons for not wanting to tell them this clue was because PUBLICALLY telling scum that there’s a secret scum player among them **DOES NOTHING TO HELP TOWN.** ”[/INDENT][/INDENT] … doesn’t make sense for the case Idle is making. If TexCat is town, she just made a mistake. If she’s scum, they already know. It’s a lot of hooplah for a case that doesn’t need extra hooplah. Further, scum already know the entire clue at this point anyway! If any member of the scum team knows there’s a unknown scummer, about five seconds later they all know. I’m also curious why Idle thinks not correcting the single word mistake now is important. Presumably, TexCat had the full (correct) clue, and accurately reported it to her scum buddies. At this point, town is the only group still in the dark, and you’re doing scum no harm by not revealing it. What is the point of not informing town what scum already knows? This case feels like too much after the fact. I’m suggesting Idle Thoughts is a scum partner with TexCat, and with Johnny Bravo out of the picture and unable to say one way or the other, could coordinate this effort with TexCat to get maximum townie cred from her lynch by adjusting (and then calling out) her claimed JB clue. We have no way of verifying if a word really was left out, or even if this was really his clue, and Idle Thoughts was free to be the only one calling TexCat out on it. **Vote Idle Thoughts.** Final bit of business: if there’s a normal detective in the game with three results of some kind on still-living players (or maybe a detected scum?), I’d consider claiming toDay or toMorrow. Your chances of dying increase greatly as these Days progress, and your results can really help us at this point. Even if you’ve only discovered town players, your results create a new masonry scum is forced to deal with, as scum generally can’t let a block of “confirmed” players into the end-game without certain defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1028 "2014-03-11T04:40:49Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Nothing in there says I thought you were town. I am willing to conditionally accept the fact that you have a one time use power. Either you’ll use it tonight as you said or you won’t. Either way, when you did, you’ll flip as something other than VT, or you’ll be a dead liar. There’s a small chance than an investigative role will find something out that outs you as a living liar who will possibly get lynched. But I’m willing to accept that you have a random name that isn’t pure vanilla. That’s all I said. This is a fair rebuttal. I’ve only your tone to go on, and it seemed too casually accepting. I like my cases on other people better, but felt this was iffy enough to deserve a vote. > [@](#): > > And I’ll be honest. I thought my clue was only useful as a gotcha if something odd came out, especially when compared to the other revealed clues. I didn’t really thing about the logic puzzles involved in clue puzzling until after I worked on the **lightfoot** / **pizza** issue. I’ll admit to not fully thinking that through until the other day. This I’m not as forgiving about. It doesn’t require a lot of thought to go from “my clue mentions this guy, and gives me exactly one fact about him” to “I should question him about that one fact.” You absolutely deserve my vote for this. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1029 "2014-03-11T04:48:17Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > **LightFoot** also troubles me. I had [a solid case](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17118495&postcount=440) on her on Day 1, which as far as I know she has never responded to or even acknowledged. Johnny Bravo agreed with the case, and cast the final vote of the Day for her. While a Day 1 scum kill could happen for any particular reason, It’s not a total stretch to posit a scum team wanting to clear suspicion on her by killing one town suspector (is that a word?) and hoping to lead a lynch of the other (me). Coupled with his hint that his clue was a good one, and I could see that being enough for a scum decision for a Day 1 kill. > > Normally, I wouldn’t need to go back to a Day 1 case and scum kill to illustrate scumminess, but LightFoot hasn’t done much of else of note all game. She cast a vote for Chronos (like we all did)… and disappeared. I find that suspicious as well. > > **Vote LightFoot.** If I were to play the lets pretend I’m wrong about Astral game, which I very well could be, then I’d say this to you. Because my clue identifies Langdale pike as having false information, I’ll just reiterate that you’ll not get me to vote for her. > [@](#): > > Does anybody have a credible guess for why Silver Jan might have been targetted, by the way? IIRC she lynched a godfather, so, I am not understanding why this continues to be a relevant question. I also think your vote on Darth Sensitive is motivated by the tally rather than actual suspicions, so no go on that one either. Surprise surprise, I’m sure. Got any other suspects? I’m not impressed so far. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1030 "2014-03-11T05:00:16Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > IIRC she lynched a godfather, so, I am not understanding why this continues to be a relevant question. So did other people. I think trying to decipher scum’s motivation is worthwhile, and “she voted to lynch a dude that other people lynched too” doesn’t cut it for me. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Got any other suspects? I’m not impressed so far. This might come as a shock to you, but I’m not playing the “let’s impress Askthepizzaguy” game. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1031 "2014-03-11T05:53:40Z")
I would also humbly suggest that anyone else with investigation results think about coming out with them in some form. I need to think about the Astral/Pizza/Mahaloth/Darth Sensitive nexus. I’ll sleep on it. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1032 "2014-03-11T06:04:59Z")
If this helps you untangle your thoughts, my lynch preference in order: 1. Idle Thoughts 2. sinjin 3. Darth Sensitive 4. LightFoot ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1033 "2014-03-11T09:28:58Z")
I think Astral makes a good point about Idle Thoughts’ thinking about the extra Scum clue. His only defense, ISTM, is to ask for a name change to **Unclear Thoughts**. 🙂 **Vote: Idle Thoughts** I’m less fond of his case against Lightfoot, who in past games has been very active when Scum; nor his case against Sinjin. If there were two players of whom I were certain exactly one was Scum, I’d likely be voting for both now: I don’t have 50% certainty on any of the Scum candidates I’m voting now. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1034 "2014-03-11T13:33:50Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m less fond of his case against Lightfoot, who in past games has been very active when Scum; nor his case against Sinjin. If there were two players of whom I were certain exactly one was Scum, I’d likely be voting for both now: I don’t have 50% certainty on any of the Scum candidates I’m voting now. That’s the danger of a multivote game. I don’t feel equally strong about my cases, either. In a single vote game, I’d just be voting for Idle Thoughts. The three lesser cases were things that pinged me as I read along, and I stand by them as indications of potential scummyness. That’s why I’ve generally been indicating my preferential order near my multivotes. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1035 "2014-03-11T15:21:35Z")
**Scathach, wevets** , maybe somebody else I’m forgetting… are you still playing the game? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1036 "2014-03-11T16:53:17Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > **Scathach, wevets** , maybe somebody else I’m forgetting… are you still playing the game? On general principle: **Vote Scathach** **Vote wevets** ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1037 "2014-03-11T17:09:50Z")
can anyone summarize the case on **Idle**? also what was his claim? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1038 "2014-03-11T17:39:22Z")
You can read my case on Idle in its entirety just ten posts above yours. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1039 "2014-03-11T17:43:22Z")
You can read Idle Thought’s claim by clicking on [this link right here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100244&postcount=93). ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/1040 "2014-03-11T20:57:55Z")
Your case doesn’t make any sense, **Astral.** I’ve been suspicious of **Texcat** since after Day One, if you remember…so that wasn’t just a new suspicion from out of the blue. I voted for **Texcat** on both Day Two AND Day Three. Not to use the “scum would never go after each other” ploy…because they have and probably would…but, seriously? You’re going to go after one of the few people who has consistently been after **Texcat** and turned out to be right? I think scum are growing scared of me and want me out of the game. Here’s who I think are good choices for scum, from first to last: 1. **Astral Rejection** …another person I’ve been suspicious of from the start. And while I said earlier toDay that I’m okay with putting him on the back burner for now considering we caught a scum from the “a scum was saved from **Dizzy** being lynched” pool, his insane reasoning makes me all the more sure on him again. **Vote Astral Rejection** 1. **Septimus** has been gunning for me since Day One for practically no reason at all, yet he still thinks he seems to have a good reason. News: You don’t. 3 and 4. Waffling between **Darth** and **Mahaloth**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=53)