# Mafia: Cecilvania \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 13, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111 "2008-05-13T00:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/201 "2008-05-17T07:50:47Z")
Isn’t there a sportsmanship angle to the Dracula question? It seems pretty shabby to play against one’s current team, and once a townie is bitten, their team is Vampire, not Town. I wouldn’t like it if a Town player in a recruitment game tried to signal the scum to recruit him because the Town was doing badly and he wanted to be on the winning side. Isn’t that analogous to what’s being proposed now? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/202 "2008-05-17T10:29:27Z")
Except that this game is all about Town Vs. Scum. Either you play for the Town. Or You Die. That’s how i see it. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/203 "2008-05-17T10:41:44Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] I wouldn’t like it if a Town player in a recruitment game tried to signal the scum to recruit him because the Town was doing badly and he wanted to be on the winning side. Isn’t that analogous to what’s being proposed now? [/QUOTE] \*(I didn’t feel I made my point clearly in my last post, plus I’ve been up FAR too late- so this may just ramble). What I guess I’m trying to say is: there’s a difference in your example and the current one. It’s Sportsmanship vs. just “Pro-Town” sensibilities. In my view: the Sportsman thing goes out the window if you’re playing on the Town’s side. As a Townie you should exploit any and EVERY loophole you’ve got to win. In the recent game (sach’s game), the Town came up with a loophole that all but RUINED the scum (ie: Me)'s chances of winning. As much as I hated it at the time, its something that I wholly would have endorsed if I was Town. It’s that sort of attitude that wins games- a Town win BY ANY MEANS Necessary. In your above case, you present an example of a player doing something ANTI-Town in order to try to win- that i view as well to put it simply not “un-sporting” but simply “ANTI-TOWN”. I would lynch the anti-town bastard for that sort of logic, not because it’s not the “sporting” thing to do, but ANY player that doesn’t play for the GOOD of the TOWN in mind, but plays rather SELFISHLY for his OWN win condition isn’t a valuable member of this society, dammit! We’re a Town. We win as a Town, we Lose as a Town. We are in essence stronger only by being something greater than what each of us can strive to be on our own. So any son of a bitch that tries to hurt OUR Chances as a whole from winning AS A TOWN- Shoot that bastich in the back and run him down! You’re either Pro-Town or you’re Dead. Plain and Simple. There’s nothing “Sporting” about it. Either we win as a Team. Or we still win as a Team and you lay there in the ditch and think about why you should have won as a team with us NEXT time. It builds character for future games, we as a town should not let dissenters and fools break us down from within! Your post troubles me. But I think it’s the lack of sleep more so. So i will go to bed now. And try to wake up and re-read the thread with a saner head. Goodnight. sweet Dreams. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/204 "2008-05-17T11:32:43Z")
**RoOsh** , of course I endorse the Town strategy of lynching Vampires who don’t immediately turn on Dracula. My point is not about Town strategy at all; it’s about Vampire sportsmanship. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/205 "2008-05-17T14:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Mods, will you state explicitly that the possible roles listed in the opening color are the _only_ possible roles in this game? [/QUOTE] That’s a good question. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/206 "2008-05-17T14:58:43Z")
Day 1 Vote Count (as of Post 205): **CatInASuit** (1): OAOW **RoOsh** (1): Nanook **Koldanar** (1): Darth Sensitive **Blaster Master** (1): WF Tomba ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/207 "2008-05-17T14:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] Isn’t there a sportsmanship angle to the Dracula question? It seems pretty shabby to play against one’s current team, and once a townie is bitten, their team is Vampire, not Town. I wouldn’t like it if a Town player in a recruitment game tried to signal the scum to recruit him because the Town was doing badly and he wanted to be on the winning side. Isn’t that analogous to what’s being proposed now? [/QUOTE] That’s an interesting point. I suspect it depends on the psychology of the individual player: whether they continue to identify with their original team (Town), or whether they start thinking of themselves as part of Team Vampire as soon as they’re bitten. (Or, alternatively, whether their main goal is to win, regardless of which team they happen to be on at the time.) I would expect most players to SAY, at this point in the game, that they would turn against Dracula if bitten, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some of them would _actually_ end up throwing their lot in with Team Vampire. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/208 "2008-05-17T16:31:38Z")
I think that we’re overlooking the Dracula may have more powers than are specified angle. It just seems too easy to think that it’s much harder for him/he’s a sad SOB…there has to be something we’re not seeing, some other power. Otherwise, what’s the point of even having him? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/209 "2008-05-17T16:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=RoOsh] Agreed. This should prolly be done as soon as possible (Ie: I’m hoping before Sunday) just so we can get this silly topic out of our hair for now. [/QUOTE] Also agreed. Should I get bitten, I’ll be ratting Batboy out and hoping for the cure. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/210 "2008-05-17T16:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=USCDiver] That’s a good question. [/QUOTE] But not a good answer. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/211 "2008-05-17T17:14:13Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] Otherwise, what’s the point of even having him? [/QUOTE] Well, I was thinking, what about multiple independent Vampires? That could be interesting. And I just wanted to say, the phrase “vampire Sportsmanship” really cracked me up actually. I did think i misread what you were trying to say \*\*Tomba \*\* (as I felt you were feeling perhaps a bit sympathetic towards the Vamps, which struck me as odd) ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/212 "2008-05-17T19:17:09Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] Screw it, if Diver corrects me we will deal with it then. Player X is out of luck. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but this post here says that a bitten player who rats out the Vampire is out of luck (can’t win at all), if we assume the Vampire gets lynched ipso facto. Unless I missed some clarification by **USCDiver**. So, **Diver** , what’s the deal? Was **NAF** ’s interpretation right? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/213 "2008-05-17T21:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Sorry, but this post here says that a bitten player who rats out the Vampire is out of luck (can’t win at all), if we assume the Vampire gets lynched ipso facto. Unless I missed some clarification by **USCDiver**. So, **Diver** , what’s the deal? Was **NAF** ’s interpretation right? [/QUOTE] as I understood it he says bitten players don’t revert to town _if they die before dracula meets Mr Stabby_ other wise they’re golden. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/214 "2008-05-18T03:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers] as I understood it he says bitten players don’t revert to town _if they die before dracula meets Mr Stabby_ other wise they’re golden. [/QUOTE] That was my interpretation, also. Seems pretty clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/215 "2008-05-18T18:57:36Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] That was my interpretation, also. Seems pretty clear to me. [/QUOTE] I’ve re-read it and it seems to clear to me as well. Sorry about the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/216 "2008-05-18T20:38:40Z")
hi all I’m very much the guilty party for the Dracula discussion. But I think we should try and move on from here. My view is Dracula is not a threat in the early game. Should Dracula choose to bite, the risks are quite high. I would expect an active Dracula to be dead quickly. Thus dracula is not a threat until the endgame. Maybe Dracula will bite. Maybe he won’t. But he knows the risks of doing so. We should turn our attention to the werewolves. We have plenty of time though. M-Th will need to be more werewolf focused. How to get that to happen, I don’t really know yet. But let’s try. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/217 "2008-05-19T00:28:20Z")
Well, it’s been a really quiet weekend, so that makes a post-count analysis less useful, but it’s all I’ve got right now, so here are the numbers of game-related posts so far, including this post. Two comments: - I’ve made my own calls on what counts as game-related vs. fluff, YMMV - I started the count at post 139 Roosh - 6 Koldanar - 5 Hal Briston - 4 Fretful Porpentine - 3 Storyteller - 8 Nanook of the Northshore - 3 Pollux Oil - 2 BlaM! - 0 Darth Sensitive - 5 WFTomba - 4 OneAndOnlyWanderers - 5 ShadowFacts - 5 CatInASuit - 3 Freudian Slit - 2 Hockey Monkey - 1 Diggit Camera - 3 Sach - 6 So, I’ve played a couple of games with **Blaster Master** , and I know it’s often his M.O. to be away for chunks of time, then come in and do a major post dump, so I don’t think voting for him is necessary at this moment. So the next one on the list is **Hockey Monkey** with only one substantive post so far. **Vote Hockey Monkey** ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/218 "2008-05-19T07:34:49Z")
I can get behind presuring the lurkers later on in the game, but what are you hoping to get out of Hockey Monkey right now? About all he could do i actually give us a random vote, or comment on the Dracula dicussion or whatever. It’s early day 1, and people will be replaced if they don’t meet the required number of substantive pots per day. if that isn’t enough oressure to get them voting, I’m not sure what a wagon will do to help. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/219 "2008-05-19T10:39:38Z")
And here was me expecting several pages when I got back. Ho Hum 😃 So, on with the analysis and the few things that caught my eye. [QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] I’ll be back a bit later with an intial vote and potentially additional thoughts. [/QUOTE] Umm really, this early on, you have already have a vote? Which then changes to a random vote on Roosh? Doesn’t feel right somehow. [QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] If all the converts die when Dracula dies, then there would be sufficent reason to protect him. The rules state though that any converted vampire revert back to their original condition, so there is no real motivation not to turn him in. [/QUOTE] If players lose the game when they die if vamped, then any vampire who dies if Dracula dies will lose the game. This means that vamped players will have to keep Dracula alive. Returning to be town after the event would then carry no meaning. Interesting speculation! :dubious: [QUOTE=ShadowFacts] So, I’ve played a couple of games with **Blaster Master** , and I know it’s often his M.O. to be away for chunks of time, then come in and do a major post dump, so I don’t think voting for him is necessary at this moment. So the next one on the list is **Hockey Monkey** with only one substantive post so far. **Vote Hockey Monkey** [/QUOTE] Now this makes very little sense. \*\*Hockey Monkey \*\* can also be an infrequent poster in Mafia games, but this feels like trying to use reasoning not to vote for **BlaM!**. Considering **BlaM!** changes his style from game to game how do we know that this time it will not be deliberate lurking as a scum. So for the meanwhile **vote ShadowFacts** ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/220 "2008-05-19T10:47:23Z")
[QUOTE=CatInASuit] Now this makes very little sense. \*\*Hockey Monkey \*\* can also be an infrequent poster in Mafia games, but this feels like trying to use reasoning not to vote for **BlaM!**. Considering **BlaM!** changes his style from game to game how do we know that this time it will not be deliberate lurking as a scum. So for the meanwhile **vote ShadowFacts** [/QUOTE] I am interested in your opinion and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. I have already pointed out that I think Shadow’s lynch Hockey spiel seems pointless, and I like your additional analysis on it. **unvote CatInASuit** **vot Shadow Facts** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=12)