# Mafia: Cecilvania \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 13, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111 "2008-05-13T00:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/41 "2008-05-13T17:58:08Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] Well, if they know who he is, they can try to protect him. [/QUOTE] It’s awfully hard for a Townie to “protect” a Townie in any meaningful sense. The value of a protection of this sort would be worth way less than the risk entailed in choosing to bite. Under this rule-set, the Vampire would be best suited to mostly not bite - except, perhaps, to target the Detective if he is uncovered. I can see a few other problems, but I think maybe I shouldn’t mention them until further clarification arrives. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/42 "2008-05-13T17:59:53Z")
Also, let’s try to keep a lid on analysis until roles have gone out please. But you can feel free to PM either mod or both with questions/ concerns. Just keep it out of the game thread for now. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/43 "2008-05-13T18:05:22Z")
Rules/Roles Clarification: Players who are bitten by Dracula will become Vampires and will investigate as such by the Constable. They will be told the identity of Dracula. Vampires cannot discuss strategy at Night. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/44 "2008-05-13T18:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] Does that number include Vampires? [/QUOTE] Yes ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/45 "2008-05-13T18:12:33Z")
[QUOTE=USCDiver] Yes [/QUOTE] Oops, I realized my question was unclear. You mean the Vampires get counted with the Town, right? I might not get to play in this game, but I want to be prepared if I do! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/46 "2008-05-13T18:18:22Z")
[QUOTE=USCDiver] Rules/Roles Clarification: Players who are bitten by Dracula will become Vampires and will investigate as such by the Constable. They will be told the identity of Dracula. Vampires cannot discuss strategy at Night. [/QUOTE] Do Vampires know the identity of each other? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/47 "2008-05-13T18:20:37Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] Oops, I realized my question was unclear. You mean the Vampires get counted with the Town, right? I might not get to play in this game, but I want to be prepared if I do! 🙂 [/QUOTE] No, vampires are vampires. Town is town. Werewolves are werewolves. If you change sides (become a vamp, revert to town) you will be informed. Let me check with USC on one other fact about vampires that I think we left out of the basic description. Like I said, we will repost claified roles/rules with the color of the game. Once they are set I will put them all as my sig so you can reference later. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/48 "2008-05-13T18:24:03Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] Do Vampires know the identity of each other? [/QUOTE] That was what I was double checking on. No, vampires do not know who other vampires are. They only know their creator. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/49 "2008-05-13T18:25:50Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] No, vampires are vampires. Town is town. Werewolves are werewolves. If you change sides (become a vamp, revert to town) you will be informed. [/QUOTE] I was referring only to the counting of Town for the purpose of determining if the Werewolves win. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/50 "2008-05-13T18:30:29Z")
Role Clarifications: The Werewolves win if their number is greater than or equal to the number of Town players at the end of the Day and Dracula is dead. Vampire: Continues to act as a Townsperson during the Day. Knows who Dracula is, but not the other Vampires. Reverts to their original role if Dracula is killed. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/51 "2008-05-13T18:34:10Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] I was referring only to the counting of Town for the purpose of determining if the Werewolves win. [/QUOTE] AH! Sort of. USC and I just talked and agreed that it wasn’t made clear how the win conditions work. In order for the werewolves to win all non werewolves must be eliminated (or it becomes a mathmatical impossibilty for it to be otherwise, i.e. they reach majority and Dracula is not in the game to achive his own win condition.) For Town to win all non town must be eliminated. For Vampires to win they have to reach majority by the time the wolves or town are all eliminated. ETA: what USC said. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/52 "2008-05-13T18:49:44Z")
Could you express the win conditions as algebraic expressions? Let V equal the number of Vampires. Let T equal the number of Townspeople. Let W equal the number of Werewolves. W = 0; V \> T is a Vampire Win T = 0; V \> W is a Vampire Win W = 0; V=0; T\>0 is a Town Win W \>= T+V is a Werewolf Win Is this correct? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/53 "2008-05-13T18:53:56Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] Could you express the win conditions as algebraic expressions? Let V equal the number of Vampires. Let T equal the number of Townspeople. Let W equal the number of Werewolves. W = 0; V \> T is a Vampire Win T = 0; V \> W is a Vampire Win W = 0; V=0; T\>0 is a Town Win W \>= T+V is a Werewolf Win Is this correct? [/QUOTE] I believe so. Though USC mentioned that Dracula had to be killed which would make that last equation W\>=T; V=0 is a Werewolf win. We may disagree on this point, so let me get back to you with official word on that particular stance. The first 3 are all true. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/54 "2008-05-13T18:57:25Z")
They are functionally equivalent. If W \>= T+V and V is non-zero, then there is no way for Town or Dracula to stop the werewolves. It would just be a matter of time for W to kill off everyone else (i.e., the Wolves control both the Day Lynch and Night Kill). ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/55 "2008-05-13T18:59:19Z")
Ok…now can you express the various win conditions via interpretive dance, please? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/56 "2008-05-13T19:00:01Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] They are functionally equivalent. If W \>= T+V and V is non-zero, then there is no way for Town or Dracula to stop the werewolves. It would just be a matter of time for W to kill off everyone else (i.e., the Wolves control both the Day Lynch and Night Kill). [/QUOTE] Good point. Ok, then yes the above all are true. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/57 "2008-05-13T19:08:26Z")
I’d like to play. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/58 "2008-05-13T19:09:00Z")
Can Dracula be Nightkilled by the Wolves targeting him/her for their Night kill? ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/59 "2008-05-13T19:09:49Z")
Still room? I’m back from Vegas and itching to play! ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/60 "2008-05-13T19:16:16Z")
Sweet, we are just missing \*\*HNC \*\* and the Night’s entertainment is sorted. Of course, we could do with \*\*Diomedes \*\* manning the bar again. 😃 Now where did I put that C4? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=4)