# Mafia: Cecilvania \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 13, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111 "2008-05-13T00:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1021 "2008-06-07T20:07:10Z")
No color today kids. I gots to go to work in a minute. **MHaye** , a Townsperson, has been killed. Players: Koldanar Hal Briston Fretful Porpentine Storyteller Nanook of the North Shore Pollux Oil Blaster Master [del]Darth Sensitive[/del] Ryjae ShadowFacts [del]CatInASuit[/del] Santo Rugger DiggitCamara OneAndOnlyWanderers - Townsperson (Lynched Day 1) RoOsh - Townsperson (Killed Night 1) sachertorte - Townsperson (Lynched Day 2) Hockey Monkey/MHaye - Townsperson (Killed Night 2) Freudian Slit - Townsperson (lynched Day 3) [del]WF Tomba[/del] MHaye[sup]2[/sup] - Townsperson (killed Night 3) Day 4 ends Thursday at 4pm Eastern. No more subs will be allowed at the end of the Day. All players not meeting posting requirements will be mod-killed with no alignment or roles revealed. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1022 "2008-06-07T20:14:08Z")
They really seem to hate you in Cecilvania, MHaye. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1023 "2008-06-07T20:51:54Z")
Hate? Nay, they _fear_ my marvellous mindreading powers that were about to reveal all the scum clear as day. Any chance of spoileriffic access now I’m dead? Can’t sub in again, after all. That might challenge Dot’s record. Edit : Go Town (Again)! What’cha gonna do, modkill me? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1024 "2008-06-08T00:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=MHaye] Hate? Nay, they _fear_ my marvellous mindreading powers that were about to reveal all the scum clear as day. Any chance of spoileriffic access now I’m dead? Can’t sub in again, after all. That might challenge Dot’s record. Edit : Go Town (Again)! What’cha gonna do, modkill me? 😛 [/QUOTE] OK. At least now we’ve got a lead: who’s got a personal vendetta against **MHaye**? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1025 "2008-06-08T01:56:08Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Well, I have to say that I don’t have a clear read on anyone at this moment. But still: Could you explain your reasoning behind this assertion? In other words: why do you think “at least one scum is hiding among the votes for FS on Day 1”? I don’t see a real reason for that. Actually, I think it’s a bit likelier that someone at the end of Day 1 voted for some patsy (sorry, **OAOW** ) who was going to hang anyway. [/QUOTE] I’m sure _some_ scum voted for OAOW. But I’m pretty darn sure they didn’t _all_ vote the same way, because that would be stupid of them. And I figured, back on Day 2, that if I were scum I’d be more likely to vote for FS, the other semi-viable lynch candidate, rather than throw out a one-off vote that would make me more conspicuous. That said, when I voted for **Pollux Oil** yesterday, I’d forgotten about the fact that he was the first person to vote for FS, so for all practical purposes it _was_ a one-off vote at the time. So I’m not any more suspicious of him now than I am of **DiggitCamara** and **ShadowFacts** , our other one-off voters, and I’m starting to think it’s time to take a second look at CatInARugger, too. (This whole line of reasoning, of course, assumes that there’s more than one Wolf, and I’m starting to develop an irritating pet theory that this whole game is a sadistic joke by the mods, and the roles consist of ONE Alpha Wolf and a whole slew of Townspeople.) ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1026 "2008-06-08T02:28:03Z")
[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine] (This whole line of reasoning, of course, assumes that there’s more than one Wolf, and I’m starting to develop an irritating pet theory that this whole game is a sadistic joke by the mods, and the roles consist of ONE Alpha Wolf and a whole slew of Townspeople.) [/QUOTE] It is definitely strange that that with 6 bodies in the ground, every single one of them has been a Townsperson. I’m beginning to wonder along the similar lines as you: some wolves, and all vanilla townspeople. If that’s true, we are quite likely hosed beyond all redemption. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1027 "2008-06-08T04:17:08Z")
[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine] I’m sure _some_ scum voted for OAOW. But I’m pretty darn sure they didn’t _all_ vote the same way, because that would be stupid of them. And I figured, back on Day 2, that if I were scum I’d be more likely to vote for FS, the other semi-viable lynch candidate, rather than throw out a one-off vote that would make me more conspicuous. That said, when I voted for **Pollux Oil** yesterday, I’d forgotten about the fact that he was the first person to vote for FS, so for all practical purposes it _was_ a one-off vote at the time. So I’m not any more suspicious of him now than I am of **DiggitCamara** and **ShadowFacts** , our other one-off voters, and I’m starting to think it’s time to take a second look at CatInARugger, too. (This whole line of reasoning, of course, assumes that there’s more than one Wolf, and I’m starting to develop an irritating pet theory that this whole game is a sadistic joke by the mods, and the roles consist of ONE Alpha Wolf and a whole slew of Townspeople.) [/QUOTE] I was well on the way of formulating a truly Kooky Konspiracy: Only one Vampire, against everyone else. Of course, that would pretty much depend on **storyteller** being said Vampire, on having a (one time) ability to both recruit and kill on a Night and on some hidden rule which makes it impossible for his Victims™ to rat him out… at least immediately. A couple of questions: 1. **Storyteller** : who did you investigate? 2. There are 11 players left. Depending on **story** ’s investigation + the mason’s numbers, we might have a pretty sizeable number of “confirmed” and/or confirmable townsfolk. Should the masons risk an outing? (Supposing, of course, there are any) 3. Why haven’t the baddies targetted at least one of the “confirmed” townies? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1028 "2008-06-08T14:00:19Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] A couple of questions: 1. **Storyteller** : who did you investigate? 2. There are 11 players left. Depending on **story** ’s investigation + the mason’s numbers, we might have a pretty sizeable number of “confirmed” and/or confirmable townsfolk. Should the masons risk an outing? (Supposing, of course, there are any) 3. Why haven’t the baddies targetted at least one of the “confirmed” townies? [/QUOTE] Despite my continued suspicion of **Diggit** , these are all good questions to discuss. I’m going to add another one: is it time to lynch **storyteller** to test his claim/confirm his investigations? I realize that this is going to sound suspicious coming from me since he was all over me yesterDay, but I don’t give a shit. It needs to be discussed. If there are 4 scum and 7 town left, this would be our last Day before we got to lynch-or-lose (\<- assumption! Not perfect knowledge!) ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1029 "2008-06-08T16:07:42Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] Despite my continued suspicion of **Diggit** , these are all good questions to discuss. I’m going to add another one: is it time to lynch **storyteller** to test his claim/confirm his investigations? I realize that this is going to sound suspicious coming from me since he was all over me yesterDay, but I don’t give a shit. It needs to be discussed. If there are 4 scum and 7 town left, this would be our last Day before we got to lynch-or-lose (\<- assumption! Not perfect knowledge!) [/QUOTE] I’m shocked - _shocked!_ - to see you pursuing this line of inquiry early toDay, considering that I’m sure you guessed who I’d be investigating last Night, and of course knew what result I’d receive. This just in, Cecilvania: My boy **ShadowFacts** is a sheep-consuming, wolfsbane-fearing, silver-avoiding, Nair-favoring, David-Boreanaz-dating, Michael J. Fox-fathering, Harry Potter-assisting, London-dwelling **Werewolf**. I am delighted to begin the Day with a vote ShadowFacts So now things will get interesting. As alluded, I think it’s pretty likely that **Shadow** et al knew I’d be targeting him for investigation last Night, and knew he’d turn up Wolf. The only way he survives toDay is if I am actively disbelieved, and if I’m actively disbelieved, that probably means I get lynched. **Shadow** is dead meat either toDay or toMorrow, so launching an offensive against me toDay makes sense, I guess; might as well see if you can take the Constable with you when you go, right? Trouble is, I don’t know where to go from here. I’ve outlined my suspicions against **ShadowFacts** in a series of posts yesterDay, and come Monday morning I’ll be happy to reiterate and develop them further if needed. On the other side is the possibility that I am lying. I realize there’s a lot of concern about this, and I’m struggling with how to address it. But I have not been counterclaimed, I have the truth on my side, and - best of all - I have no show this week, so I have plenty of time to deal with arguments as they come, so I’m hoping for a positive outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1030 "2008-06-08T17:15:54Z")
Well…we’re at the point that If there are any masons, they need to claim today. I’m beginning to think this IS just a vanilla vs wolf game. If thats the case, it could be story is a wolf, and town got nothing. Or story is our only power role (no doc?) and it’s us and an investigator versus the wolves. Hoo boy, not what we were expecting. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1031 "2008-06-08T17:27:59Z")
Vote ShadowFacts I figure we can sort out what we’re going to to Tomorrow when we wake up. Can’t see any reason not to vote for this one. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1032 "2008-06-08T17:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] My boy **ShadowFacts** is a sheep-consuming, wolfsbane-fearing, silver-avoiding, Nair-favoring, David-Boreanaz-dating, Michael J. Fox-fathering, Harry Potter-assisting, London-dwelling **Werewolf**. [/QUOTE] OK, here it is. **story** has finally played his hand, naming a scum. I have little doubt that I will be lynched toDay as a result of this move, and once that happens, you’ll know he’s lying, and you will then lynch him. That’s cool, no problem. Please go ahead and vote for me toDay. But do me a big favor: please please PLEASE use toDay to look back at the last three days\* under the assumption that **storyteller** is lying scum\*. Look at who was voting with him, and who was more subtly supporting him. _All_ townies should take the time, make an effort, and try to figure out who is on **story’s** team. Once I die, that jig is up, and much obfuscation will ensue, so don’t wait. Scum do not want to you look back at the record, they are counting on you not to make the considerable effort it takes to do so, so please do what they don’t want you to do. I know I’m not likely to win support by hectoring everyone, but the truth of the matter is that town has been been ridiculously inactive this game. The other Day there were 7 players who hadn’t met the minimum post count with less than 24 hours to go in the Day. That’s pitiful and embarrassing. If you want to have any chance to win, it’s time to turn that around. Make no mistake, this “investigation” of me is a planned action, begun yesterDay. I guarantee you they have a plan of what to do once **story** and I are gone. It’s time for you to come up with your own plan to counter. For the record, I would be looking closely at \*\*Blaster Master \*\*and **Hal Briston** , and of course **Diggit**. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1033 "2008-06-08T17:49:16Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] OK, here it is. **story** has finally played his hand, naming a scum. I have little doubt that I will be lynched toDay as a result of this move, and once that happens, you’ll know he’s lying, and you will then lynch him. That’s cool, no problem. Please go ahead and vote for me toDay. But do me a big favor: please please PLEASE use toDay to look back at the last three days\* under the assumption that **storyteller** is lying scum\*. Look at who was voting with him, and who was more subtly supporting him. _All_ townies should take the time, make an effort, and try to figure out who is on **story’s** team. Once I die, that jig is up, and much obfuscation will ensue, so don’t wait. Scum do not want to you look back at the record, they are counting on you not to make the considerable effort it takes to do so, so please do what they don’t want you to do. I know I’m not likely to win support by hectoring everyone, but the truth of the matter is that town has been been ridiculously inactive this game. The other Day there were 7 players who hadn’t met the minimum post count with less than 24 hours to go in the Day. That’s pitiful and embarrassing. If you want to have any chance to win, it’s time to turn that around. Make no mistake, this “investigation” of me is a planned action, begun yesterDay. I guarantee you they have a plan of what to do once **story** and I are gone. It’s time for you to come up with your own plan to counter. For the record, I would be looking closely at \*\*Blaster Master \*\*and **Hal Briston** , and of course **Diggit**. [/QUOTE] Well, if you are right, there would have to be an independent investigator ou there at well (at least I would hope there be). And (s)he would have to have at least some additional information to give out. In that case, by toMorrow we’d have not only a bit more certainty about **story** ’s stories but also information about the masons etc. For now, at least I don’t see any other possibility but vote ShadowFacts ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1034 "2008-06-08T18:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] I figure we can sort out what we’re going to to Tomorrow when we wake up. Can’t see any reason not to vote for this one. [/QUOTE] I can’t fault you for voting for me, but please read my post right after you voted for me and don’t wait for tomorrow to “sort out what we’re going to do.” There are two choices: 1. I am a Wolf, and **story** is the Constable. If that’s the case, you’re in OK shape with one scum dead, 3 confirmed townies, and probably a Doctor protecting **story**. Most everyone is going to vote for me, none of those votes are accountable, etc. etc. Might as well skip to Thursday. 2. I am town, and **story** is a Wolf. If that’s the case, you’re in terrible shape, because it probably means there is no constable (and perhaps no other power roles). After tonight, there will be 9 people left, likely 5 town + 4 Wolves. **story** will get lynched, then another townie dead the next night, leaving 4 town + 3 wolves, and no margin for error. And that’s if we’re lucky. You have NOTHING to lose by assuming #2 is the case and using toDay to discuss it. Make people talk. Review the record to date. Please don’t sit on your hands and do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1035 "2008-06-08T21:50:50Z")
Well know with more certainty if 1) or 2) is the case Tomorrow. Why should I put the time and effort to come up with a hypothetical plan for something I don’t think is the case. You don’t even put forth the 3rd case, that **story** is a Vampire. Spreading panic by assuming #2 (hehe) isn’t going to help the town, and doing the analysis now instead of Tomorrow isn’t going to net us anything that we won’t have then, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1036 "2008-06-08T21:56:02Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] \Most everyone is going to vote for me, none of those votes are accountable, etc. etc. [/QUOTE] I don’t have a problem with no votes being accountable on a Day we’ve found scum. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1037 "2008-06-08T22:04:12Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] I don’t have a problem with no votes being accountable on a Day we’ve found scum. 😛 [/QUOTE] _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1038 "2008-06-08T22:49:20Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] _sigh_ [/QUOTE] Take a step back, assume we’re analyzing a game that neither of us are playing in. We’re both rooting for town. Is there really an argument that finding scum on a Day is bad because the Cop said they were scum? 'Cuz I can’t think of one. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1039 "2008-06-08T23:20:13Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Take a step back, assume we’re analyzing a game that neither of us are playing in. We’re both rooting for town. Is there really an argument that finding scum on a Day is bad because the Cop said they were scum? 'Cuz I can’t think of one. [/QUOTE] Oh my, are you clever. You almost got to me to argue that finding scum on the basis of a cop investigation is BAD! Phew, thank the gods that my wolf instincts are finely honed and I avoided your trap. :rolleyes: My sigh was because you have done exactly what scum want you to do: assumed that I am scum and that therefore you can sit back, relax, and do nothing for the rest of the Day. God forbid anyone put forth some effort to play the game when they can get spoonfed instead. I think for the sake of my mental well-being I need to stop reading the thread now - it’s far too frustrating, and I’m just going to get angry and piss everyone else off, too. Enjoy your week off, **Santo**. See you at the scaffold. Good luck, Town! ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1040 "2008-06-09T00:26:39Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] I can’t fault you for voting for me, but please read my post right after you voted for me and don’t wait for tomorrow to “sort out what we’re going to do.” There are two choices: 1. I am a Wolf, and **story** is the Constable. If that’s the case, you’re in OK shape with one scum dead, 3 confirmed townies, and probably a Doctor protecting **story**. Most everyone is going to vote for me, none of those votes are accountable, etc. etc. Might as well skip to Thursday. 2. I am town, and **story** is a Wolf. If that’s the case, you’re in terrible shape, because it probably means there is no constable (and perhaps no other power roles). After tonight, there will be 9 people left, likely 5 town + 4 Wolves. **story** will get lynched, then another townie dead the next night, leaving 4 town + 3 wolves, and no margin for error. And that’s if we’re lucky. You have NOTHING to lose by assuming #2 is the case and using toDay to discuss it. Make people talk. Review the record to date. Please don’t sit on your hands and do nothing. [/QUOTE] It’s a pity that you have chosen to stop reading the thread. My question about the reasons why the wolves haven’t targeted the investigated townsfolk does put some doubt on possibility #2. Wouldn’t the Wolves kill at least one of the “investigated” townsfolk? After all, **storyteller** would have been able to say “well, I told you so” and his credibility would go up a notch, wouldn’t it? I still think it’s a bad move on the Wolves side (it decreases the pool of suspicious players) but it really wouldn’t make sense if **storyteller** is a wolf. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=53)