# Mafia: Cecilvania \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 13, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111 "2008-05-13T00:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1321 "2008-06-28T20:22:09Z")
Dawn Day 7: **Fretful Porpentine** -Townsperson has been killed Players: Koldanar Hal Briston Nanook of the North Shore Pollux Oil [del]CatInASuit[/del] Santo Rugger OneAndOnlyWanderers - Townsperson (Lynched Day 1) RoOsh - Townsperson (Killed Night 1) sachertorte - Townsperson (Lynched Day 2) [del]Hockey Monkey[/del] MHaye - Townsperson (Killed Night 2) Freudian Slit - Townsperson (Lynched Day 3) [del]WF Tomba[/del] MHaye[sup]2[/sup] - Townsperson (Killed Night 3) ShadowFacts - Townsperson (Lynched Day 4) DiggitCamara - Townsperson (Killed Night 4) Storyteller - Alpha Wolf (Lynched Day 5) [del]Darth Sensitive Ryjae[/del] MHaye[sup]3[/sup] - Townsperson (Killed Night 5) Blaster Master - Townsperson (lynched Day 6) Fretful Porpentine - Townsperson (Killed Night 6) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1322 "2008-06-28T23:51:51Z")
Well, damn. Just when I finally had some free time to devote to this game, too ☹ Good luck, Town! ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1323 "2008-06-30T14:59:51Z")
Continuing this where I left off and at least moving this thread back up top. **Vote Hal Briston** Shouldn’t Have moved my damn vote. I was worried fretful was trying to derail a train on scum, but she’s town, so that idea doesn’t work. I’m left with Hal, Pollux, Nanook, and Santo as candidates, gotta be 2 scum outta those 4. Now out of them, Hal has been the lurkingest. Strange theory on tag team, popping in at the beginning and end of days. Does this equal scum? Lots would say where is the motivation; wouldn’t this put scum out there? Well, Hal has played alot of games, and he would know this, yes? So, then, this very well could be a case of WIFOM, and he’s playing the way we do not expect. It’s flimsy, but right now the vote stands until I can look at the others, and him again. I at least wanted a vote on record, continuing with what I felt was a good move yesterday. Maybe I’ll even get myself better an analysis! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1324 "2008-06-30T15:06:20Z")
It is apparent to me that we are at lylo. Whether that’s 2-2-1 or 3-2, I don’t know and don’t see that it really matters. At this point, I’m leaning town on Kold, unsure on Santo and Pollux, and I’ve been clear on my thoughts on Hal for a while. Blam had some interesting points regarding Pollux, but since we’re at LYLO, I gotta go with who I think is scummiest. **Vote Hal Briston** ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1325 "2008-06-30T15:17:41Z")
Ok, obviously no one is going to be cut a break at this point, and I’m not even going to consider anyone as “probably town”…rolling this one back to zero. The biggest consideration to keep in mind here is that scum will be voting together today – they have no reason not to, and all the reason in the world to do so. Once we get close to the deadline, all it will take is for one town-on-town vote for the scum to pile their two on top and seal their win. Because of this, I would make a suggestion: Don’t vote. Either FOS, or at the very least, put your vote out there but make sure to unvote it sometime on Wednesday. If we go into Thursday with the three townies anything but unified, then we’re done. Let’s not give the scum a chance to control the voting bloc. For me, it’s getting pretty clear… **Koldnar** had a case against me early on, but it’s gone. However, he’s still trying to manipulate perceptions to keep me on the hotseat. He’s been playing the same “hypertownie” manner that many people have confessed to doing when they’ve played as scum. If he were town, he’d be trying to keep a more reasoned approach as we come to the endgame. Instead, he’s trying to keep me as the “default vote”, knowing he only has to fool one townie in order to win. Nope…not going to be suckered. FO(extreme)S **Koldnar** ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1326 "2008-06-30T15:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Ok, obviously no one is going to be cut a break at this point, and I’m not even going to consider anyone as “probably town”…rolling this one back to zero. The biggest consideration to keep in mind here is that scum will be voting together today – they have no reason not to, and all the reason in the world to do so. Once we get close to the deadline, all it will take is for one town-on-town vote for the scum to pile their two on top and seal their win. Because of this, I would make a suggestion: Don’t vote. Either FOS, or at the very least, put your vote out there but make sure to unvote it sometime on Wednesday. If we go into Thursday with the three townies anything but unified, then we’re done. Let’s not give the scum a chance to control the voting bloc. For me, it’s getting pretty clear… **Koldnar** had a case against me early on, but it’s gone. However, he’s still trying to manipulate perceptions to keep me on the hotseat. He’s been playing the same “hypertownie” manner that many people have confessed to doing when they’ve played as scum. If he were town, he’d be trying to keep a more reasoned approach as we come to the endgame. Instead, he’s trying to keep me as the “default vote”, knowing he only has to fool one townie in order to win. Nope…not going to be suckered. FO(extreme)S **Koldnar** [/QUOTE] Actually, you bring up a good point, and it was something I was pondering. Our days don’t end (that I know of) if we reach a large majority, i.e. two townies voting on the same target as the scum. With us in this situation, I wouldn’t be surprised if the scum do go together on the same target. **unvote Hal** For now, to make things easier. But you all saw this vote at least, so it is on record. I am maintaining an FOS for now. Now, Hal, can you explain how I’m playing ‘Hyper-Townie’ ? I’m putting out my logic, and trying to get discussion to move forward. ---
**Author:** ![Pollux\_Oil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/858c86/32.png) [@Pollux\_Oil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pollux_Oil)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1327 "2008-07-01T04:27:41Z")
I agree with Hal. We don’t want to let the scum get the upper hand with votes, although I don’t think it truly matters when we vote considering there won’t be any countdown initialized or anything like that. I’ve already done rereads on Nanook and Hal, so I plan on doing rereads of Rugger and Koldanar tomorrow. To let you guys know ahead of time, I’m going to be away for the Fourth of July weekend from Wednesday to Sunday. I’m traveling Wednesday so I’m not sure if I’ll be on then, but I will definitely have access on Thursday although I don’t know if I’ll be around at the very end of the Day. I’m planning on getting my recaps of Rugger and Koldanar posted tomorrow before I leave. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1328 "2008-07-01T13:35:13Z")
Okay, it’s early, and I’ve only had one cup of coffee, but please explain to me how not having a vote on the table is beneficial to town? seems like that would make it -easier- for scum to manipulate the end tally? ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1329 "2008-07-01T13:46:43Z")
I’m not seeing the supposed benefit either. It’s different when the scum can drop the hammer and end the day or start a countdown, but neither of those apply in this game as far as I know. If everyone get’s a vote in now, we can see any weird bunches and possibly have the Wolves give themselves away. By that I mean, if everyone votes and someone ends up with 4, that’s a pretty damn good indication that at least one of the Wolves are hopping on that bandwagon. From there of course it devolves into a giant case of WIFOM, but it does give us a smaller pool to look at to start. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1330 "2008-07-01T15:06:50Z")
[QUOTE=Koldanar] Now, Hal, can you explain how I’m playing ‘Hyper-Townie’ ? [/QUOTE] By being the one who seems the most townie, of course. I know, I know…“so townie that he must be scum??”…but, yeah. We’ve all heard post-game stories from scum about how they tried to play as pro-town as possible during the day. This can lead to coming across as “too townie”. Obvious, this is as far from an exact science sa you can get, but at the moment it’s all I had. I’ve got a couple of things to say about the last few posts, but I need to get logged into work and call a client back…more within the hour. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1331 "2008-07-01T16:10:38Z")
Thinking about it some more, I withdraw my point about looking for weird clumps. There’s just too much WIFOM to draw any useful conclusions from such things. I still don’t see the downside to finding out which way people are leaning early in the Day in a game with no mechanism for ending the Day early though. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1332 "2008-07-01T16:16:56Z")
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] I’m not seeing the supposed benefit either. It’s different when the scum can drop the hammer and end the day or start a countdown, but neither of those apply in this game as far as I know. If everyone get’s a vote in now, we can see any weird bunches and possibly have the Wolves give themselves away. By that I mean, if everyone votes and someone ends up with 4, that’s a pretty damn good indication that at least one of the Wolves are hopping on that bandwagon. From there of course it devolves into a giant case of WIFOM, but it does give us a smaller pool to look at to start. [/QUOTE] The more that I’ve thought about backing off, the more I’ve come to realize I did it for the wrong reason, but I still should have. It comes down to LYLO today most likely; I want to throw away any misconceptions and start again. That means everyone at square one, and a reread as I can. Pollux has been putting together good post listings, BUT, those paraphrases can nail you (if he’s altering them at all). The only person, besides myself, I’m leaning towards not being scum is still Santo, but thats not to say we haven’t been played by Story there. So it’s only a slight leaning. More to come in the following days. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1333 "2008-07-01T17:10:59Z")
Grrr…damnable customers, taking up my Mafia time. Ok, short and sweet (and ultimately pretty meaningless) post: Logical Reasoning: I’m town. Therefore, my idea of being careful with keeping votes out there is pro-town. **Koldanar** and **Pollux** agree with the idea, **Rugger** and **Nanook** do not. Logical Conclusion: **Koldanar** and **Pollux** are town, **Rugger** and **Nanook** are not. Realistic Conclusion: Logic is highly overrated in this game. More after this nimrod’s news feed gets back up to snuff… ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1334 "2008-07-01T17:21:28Z")
WTF? Hal, you still haven’t addressed\* how\* not voting is pro town? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1335 "2008-07-01T17:25:12Z")
**Vote Hal** This was my second choice Yesterday, I’m going to go with it. Assuming there are two scum left, if I had the power to pick the lynch victim by myself we’d have a 50% shot Today, and a 50% chance Tomorrow. I’m pretty comfortable with my vote at this time, especially considering the “logical smear” that was totally… hell, I can’t even come up with a word to describe it. Off the wall, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1336 "2008-07-01T17:30:54Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] WTF? Hal, you still haven’t addressed\* how\* not voting is pro town? [/QUOTE] Because I’m very busy with work at the moment. I just didn’t want to leave scum with another opportunity to say “Oh look, Hal said he’s be back shortly and he wasn’t…look how scummy he is”. Of course, that was pretty clear…funny that you’d use it as an excuse to get a vote out there. Anyway…really…I _need_ to get work done… ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1337 "2008-07-01T17:53:05Z")
:rolleyes: You had time to type out a pretty long post saying why nobody should vote, but coudn’t find time to slip a reason how it would benifit us? It wasn’t an excuse, I was very explicit Yesterday when I said you were my second choice the Day before, and my first choice Yesterday. I also find it _very_ suspicious the way\*\* Koldanar\*\* saved you at the last hour Yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1338 "2008-07-01T18:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] :rolleyes: You had time to type out a pretty long post saying why nobody should vote, but coudn’t find time to slip a reason how it would benifit us? [/QUOTE] Dude…you’re _really_ starting to show through. Why yes, I had time to type up my long post…_yesterday_. You’re trying to equate that with not having time to respond to your question from _this morning_? Especially when the reason was in the original post – all it takes is one town on town vote to be sitting out there at end of day for the game to be over. I don’t understand why any pro-town player would have this strange _need_ for there to be an in-stone vote out there the whole time. In this case, a FOS will work just as well. [QUOTE=Santo Rugger] I also find it _very_ suspicious the way\*\* Koldanar\*\* saved you at the last hour Yesterday. [/QUOTE] Nice one…you could’ve pulled that out straight out of my notepad. **Koldnar** , for you: Know what one of the scummiest things I’ve seen you do has been? Taking your vote off of me yesterDay. Let’s look at this from a “ **Koldnar** is scum” perspective: You’ve got me on the block, dead to rights. **BLaM** is on the outside, looking like he’d be safe. Then you go and switch things up, saving me and lynching townie **BLaM**. You knock out a townie, and you get to say “Oh no, look at that…we _should’ve_ lynched **Hal** after all…darn darn darn!” Anyway…there it is for me… **Koldnar** and **Rugger** are my picks. Barring anything unforseen, **Koldnar** will be getting my vote Today. Any town votes for me will mean scum win…a highly likey occurrance, unfortunately. You guys went to great lengths to make sure the “lurker” tag stayed in place long after it was simply no longer true. You’ve managed to hang a lot of BS on a very small hook…well-played. Doesn’t mean I’m ready to roll over for you just yet, though 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1339 "2008-07-01T18:16:27Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Dude…you’re _really_ starting to show through. Why yes, I had time to type up my long post…_yesterday_. You’re trying to equate that with not having time to respond to your question from _this morning_? Especially when the reason was in the original post – all it takes is one town on town vote to be sitting out there at end of day for the game to be over. I don’t understand why any pro-town player would have this strange _need_ for there to be an in-stone vote out there the whole time. In this case, a FOS will work just as well. [/quote] Right, at the end of the day if town votes for town the game ends. We all get that. But you haven’t explained why having a vote out there NOW will inevitably lead to that situation. Who said anything about an in stone vote? It’s not like people can’t or won’t unvote. For example, I have a vote on you now. The wolves come rushing in here and try and bandwagon you. You point this out, make a compelling defense and possibly a compelling case against someone else. Why is it I can’t go “Hey that makes sense, I’ll change my vote” and unvote you and vote whoever? The way it’s coming across you seem to think that if someone votes a certain way now, that’ll be it and nothing can change it. Which is just silly at best. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111/1340 "2008-07-01T18:17:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Dude…you’re _really_ starting to show through. Why yes, I had time to type up my long post…_yesterday_. You’re trying to equate that with not having time to respond to your question from _this morning_? Especially when the reason was in the original post – all it takes is one town on town vote to be sitting out there at end of day for the game to be over. I don’t understand why any pro-town player would have this strange _need_ for there to be an in-stone vote out there the whole time. In this case, a FOS will work just as well. [/QUOTE] I didn’t realize you typed that yesterday, I just assumed it was this morning because that’s when I read it. Regardless, our votes aren’t in-stone. Who ever said they were. People have been changing their votes all Day, all Game, and for the entire known history of Mafia. Sure, we should be voting as a block at the end of the Day, but it’s not the end of the day, and maybe I’m being dense, but I -still- haven’t seen a logical reason for townies not voting until the last minute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-cecilvania-game-over/449111.md?page=68)