# Mafia: Conspiracy 2: The Cabal Strikes Back! \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 9, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324 "2008-06-09T14:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1102 "2008-07-01T14:34:05Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Why would you consider examining **NBC’s** corpse, given what I have said and the fact that - based on your vote - you are at least tentatively accepting my story? [/QUOTE] Concerning corpses: I’m keeping all my options open. The chances of examining it are small given \*\*pedescribe’s \*\* predicament, but I’m not going to just discard the option out of hand with consideration. My vote on \*\*pedescribe \*\* is because his response to you was terrible, not because I believe you. [QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] I can at least semi-confirm storyteller’s…erm story. He investigated as town. And since I know at least some of you will ask why story, it’s because he’s a strong player that often lives for a while. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, that does not prove your role either way. Perhaps tomorrow you can find a scum instead. [QUOTE=storyteller0910] Let’s start with this: CatinaSuit, I’m frankly becoming increasingly concerned that as a Detective, you’re an excellent Wolf. Your survival, if you are telling the truth, is difficult to explain, because if you’re telling the truth you are now guaranteed to be able to provide some information. Killing you quickly should have been a Wolf priority. Unless Nanook is a Wolf, and the Wolves therefore thought the real Witches would be protecting you. So let’s say it this way: I think it’s exceedingly likely that either CIAS or Nanook is lying. Thoughts? [/QUOTE] Your surprised I’m still alive. How do you think I feel. 😉 As for information, it’s not as good as a Witch or Seer, I cannot detect a Vampire remember. The only info I gain in that situation is that we have a Vampire killing at Night. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1103 "2008-07-01T14:44:06Z")
[QUOTE=CatInASuit] Concerning corpses: I’m keeping all my options open. The chances of examining it are small given \*\*pedescribe’s \*\* predicament, but I’m not going to just discard the option out of hand with consideration. My vote on \*\*pedescribe \*\* is because his response to you was terrible, not because I believe you. (snip) [/QUOTE] Well, both **pedescribe** and \*\*storyteller \*\* pretty much agree that **pedescribe** tried to kill **storyteller**. If you investigate NBC, we would, therefore, not have much additional information (to confirm your role). If, however, you investigate **brewha** we would, most likely, discover the identity of some other bad guy/girl. (I hope, at least, that the Witches didn’t try to off him). Like you say, however, that kill can be credited to the Vampire. That leaves **Santo**. If, of course, he wasn’t killed by the Witches. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1104 "2008-07-01T14:46:17Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] If, however, you investigate **brewha** we would, most likely, discover the identity of some other bad guy/girl. (I hope, at least, that the Witches didn’t try to off him). Like you say, however, that kill can be credited to the Vampire. That leaves **Santo**. If, of course, he wasn’t killed by the Witches. [/QUOTE] The Witches have a Night Kill :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1105 "2008-07-01T14:50:26Z")
I’m just going to assume that’s a typo, since we don’t have anything of the sort. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, that does not prove your role either way. Perhaps tomorrow you can find a scum instead. Ignoring the fact that you aren’t in the role and therefore what you prefer is irrelevent, why do you think finding scum is better than confirming townies? A confirmed townie, especially one that makes it to the end game, is far more valuable than any one scum other than the last one. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1106 "2008-07-01T15:15:11Z")
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] Ignoring the fact that you aren’t in the role and therefore what you prefer is irrelevent, why do you think finding scum is better than confirming townies? A confirmed townie, especially one that makes it to the end game, is far more valuable than any one scum other than the last one. [/QUOTE] If he is being truthful, I expect \*\*storyteller’s \*\* life expectancy to be as short as mine. Congratulations, you confirmed someone who is unlikely to last more than a couple of Nights. A confirmed townie is also useful as a target for scum to Night Kill without hitting other scum factions. Actually, I apologise for the above. If you are a Witch, you were not to know when you made your collective choice. I would prefer you to find scum because it can confirm your role quickly, when the scum you nominate is lynched, followed by the results turning up at the end of the following Dusk. If you are a Witch, would you not prefer that? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1107 "2008-07-01T15:20:58Z")
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] I’m just going to assume that’s a typo, since we don’t have anything of the sort. [/QUOTE] Hard to make the same typo twice in one post, but the alternative is so preposterous that I’m not sure what to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1108 "2008-07-01T15:27:11Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] Rules Clarification: _Exactly what information does a Magician and their attacker gain?_ The Magician will discover the role of their attacker. The attacker will discover the role of the Magician. Attackers always know who they try to attack and the success or failure of the attack, if even it’s redirected. I didn’t include that in the Magician role description, because it’s a natural power of every killing role. [/QUOTE] The Magician will discover the identity of their attacker, while the attacker learns the Magician’s role. Stupid mod can’t quote the rules properly. Serves them right for having such a complicated set. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1109 "2008-07-01T15:30:41Z")
[QUOTE=CatInASuit] Actually, I apologise for the above. If you are a Witch, you were not to know when you made your collective choice. [/quote] Obviously if we had known what was going to happen overnight we would have investigated someone else. But that’s the way it goes sometimes. > [@](#): > > I would prefer you to find scum because it can confirm your role quickly, when the scum you nominate is lynched, followed by the results turning up at the end of the following Dusk. If you are a Witch, would you not prefer that? I’m less concerned about confirming myself than I am with winning the game. If confirming townies and then getting lynched leads to a win, that’s fine by me. My living or dying only matters insofar as it helps town to win. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1110 "2008-07-01T15:33:07Z")
Aw, and I was about to whack \*\*story \*\* with a 5lb trout for not telling us \*\*pedescribe’s \*\* role. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1111 "2008-07-01T15:34:53Z")
[QUOTE=CatInASuit] If he is being truthful, I expect \*\*storyteller’s \*\* life expectancy to be as short as mine. Congratulations, you confirmed someone who is unlikely to last more than a couple of Nights. [/quote] Actually, I represent an interesting dilemma for the various scum factions. If **pedescribe** is a Vampire or, indeed, a Vigilante, I will be as closed to confirmed Town as a player can possibly be in a game like this - particularly if **Nanook** is ultimately revealed to be truthful. But I am also now powerless. I am Vanilla Town in a game with no Vanilla Town. Somewhere out there are (most likely) three Witches, a Detective, maybe a Seer, maybe a Warlock, and certainly someone or someones with secret powers. If the scum choose to Night kill me, they will eliminate a confirme Townie, but they will also be wasting a kill on the one player left in the game who positively cannot hurt them further in terms of power application. It’s a conundrum, and I think the Town benefits from either choice. Which is good. > [@](#): > > A confirmed townie is also useful as a target for scum to Night Kill without hitting other scum factions. I find it highly unlikely that the scum will not actively _want_ to target other factions at some point. Whichever faction appears to be winning will be targeted most aggressively by all other factions, I’d expect. > [@](#): > > I would prefer you to find scum because it can confirm your role quickly, when the scum you nominate is lynched, followed by the results turning up at the end of the following Dusk. If you are a Witch, would you not prefer that? You’re awfully focused on **Nanook** confirming his role quickly. I am less so. Confirmation will come with time. If Nanook is lying, then he’s lying. But if he’s telling the truth, we benefit from good investigations more so than from investigations designed to save his own ass. Suggesting that, if he’s telling the truth, he should be using his powers with an eye toward ducking a lynch rather than toward maximizing the value of those powers for the Town as a whole is, in my estimation, a pretty anti-Town proposition. You’ve claimed an investigative role. Will you be concentrating your investigative decisions principally on helping win the game, or on saving your own skin? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1112 "2008-07-01T15:37:28Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] Aw, and I was about to whack \*\*story \*\* with a 5lb trout for not telling us \*\*pedescribe’s \*\* role. 😛 [/QUOTE] Why a trout, then? Why not a bass or a carp or a yellowtail or something with a bit of _flair_ to it? Honestly, I think I deserve better. - storyteller, working on three hours sleep ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1113 "2008-07-01T15:41:56Z")
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] Ignoring the fact that you aren’t in the role and therefore what you prefer is irrelevent, why do you think finding scum is better than confirming townies? A confirmed townie, especially one that makes it to the end game, is far more valuable than any one scum other than the last one. [/QUOTE] I have no problem that your investigation came up town, but what is troubling is that you waited to tell us, and just happened to pick the one person who already claimed a Role today. I find that to be…very convenient for you. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1114 "2008-07-01T15:50:06Z")
I’m flat out amazed at the complete and utter lack of anything even resembling patience some of you are exhibiting. When I originally claimed, I said I wanted to wait a little while. That was SIX DAYS before the deadline, and everyone freaked out and wanted it immiediately. Today I barely have time to hit the boards yesterday and don’t post until today, and everyone freaks out that I didn’t post within 5 minutes of the Dawn post being up. Nevermind the fact that there’s EIGHT days before the deadline this time around, and that sometimes life gets in the way. It really makes me wonder about some of you. I would imagine that scum would love to discredit a claimed witch, and the anti-town way you are acting makes me think that is what’s happening here. > [@](#): > > I have no problem that your investigation came up town, but what is troubling is that you waited to tell us, and just happened to pick the one person who already claimed a Role today. I find that to be…very convenient for you. I didn’t “wait” to tell anything, I came in when I had time and posted then. Do you deny that story was a good choice to investigate? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1115 "2008-07-01T16:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] I find it highly unlikely that the scum will not actively _want_ to target other factions at some point. Whichever faction appears to be winning will be targeted most aggressively by all other factions, I’d expect. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but the Wolves can’t go after the Vampire(s) for risk of death, so there’s an element of risk involved for at least some of the scum in going after scum. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1116 "2008-07-01T16:17:18Z")
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] I’m flat out amazed at the complete and utter lack of anything even resembling patience some of you are exhibiting. When I originally claimed, I said I wanted to wait a little while. That was SIX DAYS before the deadline, and everyone freaked out and wanted it immiediately. Today I barely have time to hit the boards yesterday and don’t post until today, and everyone freaks out that I didn’t post within 5 minutes of the Dawn post being up. Nevermind the fact that there’s EIGHT days before the deadline this time around, and that sometimes life gets in the way. It really makes me wonder about some of you. I would imagine that scum would love to discredit a claimed witch, and the anti-town way you are acting makes me think that is what’s happening here. I didn’t “wait” to tell anything, I came in when I had time and posted then. Do you deny that story was a good choice to investigate? [/QUOTE] Imagine for a moment that you’re not you, and that you have no idea whether **Nanook** is a Witch, as he says. You are waiting for the results of \*\*Nanook’s \*\*investigation, both because it could provide useful information to the Town, and also because it could be used to help confirm his Town status. Would you not find it an interesting coincidence that the investigation is reported after someone has claimed a role, and that the investigation just happens to (semi-)confirm that claimed role? I mean, there are 25+ of us, and **Nanook** picked the ONE who claimed. That doesn’t ring a little alarm bell in your head? Seriously, if you look at it from our perspective, you’ll see it’s a pretty smart play for scum to make. So, you can get all huffy and accusatory if you want, but I’m still going to call a spade a spade. As to whether or not **story** was a good choice to investigate, I can see the rationale. I think my top choice would have been **CatInASuit** , since he had claimed, and it would have been helpful to confirm or deny such a powerful role, but that’s just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1117 "2008-07-01T16:20:55Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] Imagine for a moment that you’re not you, and that you have no idea whether **Nanook** is a Witch, as he says. You are waiting for the results of \*\*Nanook’s \*\*investigation, both because it could provide useful information to the Town, and also because it could be used to help confirm his Town status. Would you not find it an interesting coincidence that the investigation is reported after someone has claimed a role, and that the investigation just happens to (semi-)confirm that claimed role? I mean, there are 25+ of us, and **Nanook** picked the ONE who claimed. That doesn’t ring a little alarm bell in your head? Seriously, if you look at it from our perspective, you’ll see it’s a pretty smart play for scum to make. So, you can get all huffy and accusatory if you want, but I’m still going to call a spade a spade. [/quote] If it was just you, that would be one thing. But it’s not just you, and it’s frankly amazing to me. > [@](#): > > As to whether or not **story** was a good choice to investigate, I can see the rationale. I think my top choice would have been **CatInASuit** , since he had claimed, and it would have been helpful to confirm or deny such a powerful role, but that’s just my opinion. He was discussed and rejected, since the role he claimed is confirmable on it’s own. No reason to waste an investigation on it. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1118 "2008-07-01T16:37:21Z")
Hey, I thoughts of a great way to confirm ya, **Nanners**! Should another witch die during the Night, you just have to tell us that person’s a witch before anyone else does. Then when you do so, that’d be some really good evidence for you to clear your name with. Just make sure you show up at the start of the day to point out if any of your comrades died before the info is revealed by someone else and you’ll have my vote of confidence! That’s a better way then just arbitrarily saying “Hey, I won’t believe you until you produce Scum” or something like that (because another Wolf or such could just choose to try to sacrifice their partner to gain credibility). I like my method better to prove who you are\*. Also, don’t forget the possibility that **Story** COULD be an Omega Wolf or something… However, I suppose that’s pretty low considering you DID demonstrate your powers (Ped’s admitting he tried to off you at least), so uh… I guess you’re probably not the Omega Wolf, **story**. I’ll count you as Town in my book then for now. Though if anyone deserved that sort of uber-paranoid suspicion from me, it’d be You. 🙂 \*The Flip Side being though- if a Witch shows up dead and you didn’t identify them as your buddy, you’re gonna deserve a good ol’ neck stretching… ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1119 "2008-07-01T16:40:23Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] As to whether or not **story** was a good choice to investigate, I can see the rationale. I think my top choice would have been **CatInASuit** , since he had claimed, and it would have been helpful to confirm or deny such a powerful role, but that’s just my opinion. [/QUOTE] But that’s just the problem, it’s WIFOM as to who to pick. You could say that CiaS is a better choice, but there’s the possibility that if he IS the real thing, he was quite likely to die last night just as well. So it’s a tricky dilemma in who to pick. So I don’t have a problem with the choice of **Nanner** ’s investigation, I only wish he had revealed it earlier (ie: Prior to \*\*story \*\*pretty much outing himself with his own powers being demonstrated). It was just a case of bad timing, and I hope that perhaps in the future, that problem will take care of itself. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1120 "2008-07-01T16:49:33Z")
vote Pede I will be back with more thoughts in a bit, I have something tickling the edge of my mind but I haven’t quite figured out what it is yet. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1121 "2008-07-01T16:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] The Magician will discover the identity of their attacker, while the attacker learns the Magician’s role. Stupid mod can’t quote the rules properly. Serves them right for having such a complicated set. [/QUOTE] Err.. hate to argue with this one on you, **Pleo** … but the official rules say they both discover each other’s identity: > [@The Rules](#): > > You are a Magician, a member of the Town. Each Night you may choose one other player as your stand-in. If you are attacked, your attacker will instead target your proxy. \*\*You will discover the identity of your would-be attacker, and he yours. \*\* Your trickery will protect you from multiple attackers on a single Night, but once you’ve successfully evaded attack, you may no longer protect yourself. I think we need to figure out what you would have sent, though, **Pleo**. Is my interpretation of the rules, that the killer finds out the magician’s identity correct? Because according to the rules as I understand them, **pedescribe** should have gotten a very different PM than the one he posted. It’s raising my suspicions of the possibility of a deep, complicated plot by **storyteller** to sac a wolf in order to give him, an Omega Wolf (which is what he’d have to be, with Nanook’s investigation), iron-clad towny cred as a Magician. The only way that plan might not work is because the Wolves wouldn’t have the right PM, so they’d have to make one up… perhaps accidently not in accordance with **Pleo** ’s ruleset. I should add that I don’t think this is the most likely scenario, but if the PM **pedescribe** isn’t what’s in keeping with what **Pleo** would have sent, we have to figure out why **pede** would have altered it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324.md?page=57)