# Mafia: Conspiracy 2: The Cabal Strikes Back! \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 9, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324 "2008-06-09T14:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1422 "2008-07-11T20:14:41Z")
[QUOTE=Koldanar] Having misseed that game, what threat were the zombies (if I’m reading your post right)? From my re-read of the rules, they are non-participants. Do they offer the necro powers (ala Pollux’s game offboard) or simply a way for undead to overwhelm the town and win with a majority thing (sort of mad-bombering dead corpses)? [/QUOTE] I didn’t play or follow the first game either, so I have PM’d Pleo a few questions about zombies. A paraphrased (not quoted) summary of my perceptions of his response are: Zombies have no actual role in the game, but are rather an accounting gimmick for the Undead win condition. A Zombie doesn’t get to know anything special just by becoming a Zombie and may continue to use any after-death powers (i.e. conversing on off-board games with their original faction), should s/he have any such powers available to him/her/it. So, I don’t believe this means we now have a Zombie Coroner (but that would make a nice Dexter spin-off series). If brewha was in any off-board discussion group, he gets to continue discussing the game there. So if brewha has anyone to talk to, he can share the name of his killer with them. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1423 "2008-07-11T20:17:00Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] So, I don’t believe this means we now have a Zombie Coroner (but that would make a nice Dexter spin-off series). If brewha was in any off-board discussion group, he gets to continue discussing the game there. So if brewha has anyone to talk to, he can share the name of his killer with them. [/QUOTE] Now _that’s_ interesting. Not insofar as it affects brewha, who I think is likely to be the Coroner and therefore have no one to talk to, but certainly insofar as it affects the dynamics of the rest of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1424 "2008-07-11T20:19:32Z")
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami] The lack of dead wolves is a little alarming… [/QUOTE] Damnit – I hate finding what read to me to be A Big Slip-Up, only to find I’ve been beaten to the punch: [QUOTE=ShadowFacts] Both **pedescribe** and **Roosh** could be dead Wolves, unless you know something the rest of us don’t? [/QUOTE] This is exactly the kind of slip that **Darth** made, costing scum the Recruting game (and yes, I know this is the second time this game I’m bringing that up, but the first time was a “similar” situation…this is much more damning). Couple this with the fact you’re on my [**pedescribe** Early Voters list](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9958804&postcount=1137), and I’m not seeing a problem with getting this out there now: Vote **Omi no Kami** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1425 "2008-07-11T20:22:54Z")
Actually, I don’t know where that came from, other than bubbling up somewhere out of my brain. For some reason I thought that the process of becoming a zombie included knowing who killed you, but that is not supported by the rules as far as I can tell. If brewha (or any other Zombie) somehow knows who killed him, and has an off-board discussion, he could conceivably share his knowledge with that group even after he’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1426 "2008-07-11T20:25:13Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] Actually, I don’t know where that came from, other than bubbling up somewhere out of my brain. For some reason I thought that the process of becoming a zombie included knowing who killed you, but that is not supported by the rules as far as I can tell. If brewha (or any other Zombie) somehow knows who killed him, and has an off-board discussion, he could conceivably share his knowledge with that group even after he’s dead. [/QUOTE] Zombies don’t know anything. That’s why they need braaaaaaains. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1427 "2008-07-11T20:47:38Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Damnit – I hate finding what read to me to be A Big Slip-Up, only to find I’ve been beaten to the punch: This is exactly the kind of slip that **Darth** made, costing scum the Recruting game (and yes, I know this is the second time this game I’m bringing that up, but the first time was a “similar” situation…this is much more damning). Couple this with the fact you’re on my [**pedescribe** Early Voters list](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9958804&postcount=1137), and I’m not seeing a problem with getting this out there now: Vote **Omi no Kami** [/QUOTE] I can’t really begrudge you that one. I’m tired, and I see what you’re getting at, but there’s really nothing I can do to demonstrate my intent right now. I can say, for the record, that I’m claiming town, that my power is going to become next to useless the moment I publicly announce it, and that I was only trying to bring attention to the fact that over-focusing on the cabal and undead was going to mean that if the wolves are around (and I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t be), we might potentially be facing a full or nearly full pack by the time we polish off the cabal and find the undead. I don’t have any better idea than you do about _RoOsh_ and _pedescribe_’s identities, so at this point the only real defense I can propose is to wait for someone to investigate and report on one of them. If I still look scummy once we’ve confirmed one or both of their roles, then I’ll by all means roleclaim. I _think_ that’s all I can do, really. (For the record, I’m pretty certain that **Hal’s** motivations are reasonably noble, but I’m a little surprised at how quickly **ShadowFacts** pressed the issue as we came out of the gates this morning.) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1428 "2008-07-11T21:17:06Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] It is, I think, to our advantage to try to bleed the scum groups down piecemeal, rather than eliminate them one at a time. That is, now that we know we have two Caballeros in the ground, it might be advisable to try to reduce the numbers of one of the other groups if we can (obviously, we want to kill scum of any flavor first and foremost, but if we’re focusing our efforts, we want to get a Wolf and an Undead before we go back to Cabal whacking). [/QUOTE] \ And in theory this is the optimal strategy. If I recall correctly in the original game the Nec was becoming the most pressing target towards end game since the number of undead were starting to grow perilously close to victory. However, for me personally, it’s hard enough to figure out who scum are much less which faction they belong to. If one wants to provide guidance I am all ears. And **CIAS** obviously I am not making myself understood very well but will try one last time. All assumptions are mine based on what **I** belive to be the set up of this game. I think we both agree that **HBO** would not have been the best choice. Down to two. I was willing to give **brewha** the benefit of the doubt and since **I** believed there to be a Witchdoctor in the game he would have made a good choice for enchantment (?). Ergo, **I** would have investigated **Santo**. That was my logic and now that I have read yours I assume that we can just agree to disagree. Regardless, you do what you see fit. It’s ultimately your role FCS. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1429 "2008-07-11T21:46:54Z")
SON OF A BITCH! Well. Looks like I might have time to play in that Bastard Game after all… ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1430 "2008-07-11T21:57:07Z")
And I feel a lot like **Hal** - what I wanted to say has, for the most part, already been said. **ONK** , I think **OD** owes you a thank you note. And man was I ever wrong about what "speed"ing up meant. Unless **RoOsh** seriously had some bad juju built up or our town blockers were incredibly successful. Crap, if we settle down to one night kill per cycle we are looking at blowing past Labor Day and inching up to Halloween. Wouldn’t that be ironic, coming down to the end with a town, a cabal, a Vampire (Nec would have to be toast by then or there wouldn’t be enough brains left to keep the zombies occupied) and a Werewolf all the while putting up Halloween decorations. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1431 "2008-07-11T22:03:16Z")
[QUOTE=peekercpa] And I feel a lot like **Hal** - what I wanted to say has, for the most part, already been said. **ONK** , I think **OD** owes you a thank you note. [/QUOTE] Bah, I feel the exact same way: a lot of what I tried to clumsily articulate had already been summarized neatly by **Storyteller** , so I owe him thanks in turn. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1432 "2008-07-11T22:18:45Z")
[QUOTE=Drain Bead] Agreed on the very awesome job by **storyteller** with the kill redirect. I think we’re doing damn good so far. I’m going to hold off on voting until after my nap, in hopes that maybe some night-acting role might have gotten something juicy and I’ll wake up to even better news. [/QUOTE] Well we should be getting something from **Nanook**. Although, yesterDay he expressed consternation concerning coven consistently/concurrently confirming chosen Cabal conspirorists. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1433 "2008-07-11T23:18:13Z")
Damn. Here I was wanting to post a case against **Omi No Kami** but wanting a nap more, and I return and folks have stolen my thunder. The thing is, my case was almost completely outside of the realm of what happened so far toDay, so this might get interesting. I noted with a great deal of interest **Omi No Kami’s** comment at the beginning of yesterDay about how he “had yet to get an in-game PM” from Pleonast [url=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9957511&postcount=1085](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9957511&postcount=1085)”](post 1085). I narrowed down that this means that **Omi No Kami** was one of about half of the Town roles (and not the ostensibly most common one of Freemason), or he could be a Cabalist or Wolf depending on how their PM system works (and sadly, I don’t think anyone will be stepping up to the plate to explain that). Nothing too telling, and clearly I didn’t want to out a town power role, so I just kept that info to myself, thinking I’d use it later if circumstances warrant. And here’s why I thought circumstances warranted–I found it pretty incredible that someone could forget how **pedescribe** was outed, and why **storyteller** made a good move. But it makes sense when you consider that **Omi No Kami** could be on the same team as **pedescribe** –once you see a teammate go down, you may forget the exact circumstances as to how it happened. You just know you have to bus them ASAP, which is why **ONK** was one of the first voters for **pedescribe**. All the rest that came after has just been more fuel for the fire. I was going to go back to voting for **Oredigger** toDay, but the gears started spinning, and I feel that I have only one option. **Vote Omi No Kami** (I had to go to the grocery store in the middle of writing this post, so I apologize if people have already gone over this ground in my absence.) ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1434 "2008-07-11T23:19:38Z")
Sorry about the link coding in my last post. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1435 "2008-07-11T23:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=Drain Bead] And here’s why I thought circumstances warranted–I found it pretty incredible that someone could forget how **pedescribe** was outed, and why **storyteller** made a good move. [/quote] Let’s be perfectly clear here, I did _not_ forget what happened with regards to the whole **pedescribe** situation: I simply failed to connect that the congratulatory post was, in fact, referring to **storyteller’s** success arguing his case for pede. [QUOTE=Drain Bead] But it makes sense when you consider that **Omi No Kami** could be on the same team as **pedescribe** –once you see a teammate go down, you may forget the exact circumstances as to how it happened. [/quote] I don’t believe that for a moment - if I were a member of a scum team and knew who my fellow teammates were, I would endeavor to keep an extremely close eye on what was going on, knowing that my interactions with whomever got caught would be subject to instant and somewhat merciless scrutiny. [QUOTE=Drain Bead] You just know you have to bus them ASAP, which is why **ONK** was one of the first voters for **pedescribe**. [/quote] I was one of the first to vote for pede because I lost track of time, plain and simple: I hadn’t been keeping regular track of the game, and when I finally worked my way to the then-front page, I couldn’t remember the day/night cycle and convincing myself that I was scant hours away from being modkilled for not placing a vote. I reviewed everyone who had caught my eye, considered **Santo** , and ultimately decided that pede was the most suspicious player at the moment. I voted for him while waiting for **Storyteller** to answer my question about his tactics, and as others chimed in and began jumping behind the pede wagon I failed to find any reason to change my vote. [QUOTE=Drain Bead] All the rest that came after has just been more fuel for the fire. I was going to go back to voting for **Oredigger** toDay, but the gears started spinning, and I feel that I have only one option. [/quote] Oh, come now. I thought **ShadowFacts** was being surprisingly aggressive, but his reasons were fair. **Hal** chimed in and supported the reasoning, and since I can’t prove that my initial post was innocent, poor wording, and not a slip and honest-to-goodness scumtell until we can investigate at least one of the two bodies in question, I have no problem with it. What I _do_ have a problem with is bad logic: if you’d stepped up and said “Sure, I think there’s something sinister behind the way you phrased that,” I would have been more than happy to leave things at that. However, I find the reasoning you’ve personally cited to be weak and highly suspect excuses to vote for a lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1436 "2008-07-11T23:58:08Z")
The congrats for **story** was not for **pedescribe** at all–technically, although it’s a certainty he’s scum, it hasn’t be revealed yet. It was for **storyteller** redirecting the attempted kill onto **NaturalBlondChap** , who has just been revealed to be a Cabalist. You really are skimming, aren’t you? I’m also not sure how on earth you thought that you were about to be modkilled when the Day had essentially _just begun_ when you got your vote in. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1437 "2008-07-12T00:12:44Z")
[QUOTE=Drain Bead] The congrats for **story** was not for **pedescribe** at all–technically, although it’s a certainty he’s scum, it hasn’t be revealed yet. It was for **storyteller** redirecting the attempted kill onto **NaturalBlondChap** , who has just been revealed to be a Cabalist. You really are skimming, aren’t you? [/quote] Yep, I sure am. I try to read as closely as I can, but I really don’t have enough free time to keep up with the game, but I joined up willingly and I’m intending to try as hard as I can to put in a good show. [QUOTE=Drain Bead] I’m also not sure how on earth you thought that you were about to be modkilled when the Day had essentially _just begun_ when you got your vote in. [/QUOTE] The disorientation was a factor, and it also helped that I finished reading early in that Day: I made a point of posting my thoughts the moment I finished reading, when everything was still reasonably fresh in my mind, and luck was mainly responsible for my catching up when I did. Also, I get that you feel an early vote for a potentially outed scum could be an attempt for one player to distance himself from a potentially contaminating ally, but I would challenge you to find any connection whatsoever between pede and I before my vote: to my knowledge I never tried to back him up, nor did I ever attempt to argue him down. We had absolutely nothing to do with each other until I re-read the thread, weighed **pede** and **story’s** respective arguments, stated my thoughts about both, and voted, as I stated when I did it, on the basis that **pede’s** story seemed less believable than **story’s**. Beyond that, I really don’t know what to say. I presented a clear justification for my vote when I made it, and I stand by that justification now. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1438 "2008-07-12T01:08:31Z")
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami] (For the record, I’m pretty certain that **Hal’s** motivations are reasonably noble, but I’m a little surprised at how quickly **ShadowFacts** pressed the issue as we came out of the gates this morning.) [/QUOTE] Nice smudge there. You really are flailing about, aren’t you? :dubious: Plus you throw in a soft claim. That usually works out well. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1439 "2008-07-12T01:16:45Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] Nice smudge there. You really are flailing about, aren’t you? :dubious: Plus you throw in a soft claim. That usually works out well. [/QUOTE] Nice smudge back. 🙂 Seriously though, I feel as if I’ve addressed your, **Hal** , and **Drain’s** concerns as well as I am conceivably able to until someone investigates either of the bodies, so I really don’t know what else anyone expects me to say. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1440 "2008-07-12T01:30:59Z")
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami] I was one of the first to vote for pede because I lost track of time, plain and simple: I hadn’t been keeping regular track of the game, and when I finally worked my way to the then-front page, I couldn’t remember the day/night cycle and convincing myself that I was scant hours away from being modkilled for not placing a vote. I reviewed everyone who had caught my eye, considered **Santo** , and ultimately decided that pede was the most suspicious player at the moment. I voted for him while waiting for **Storyteller** to answer my question about his tactics, and as others chimed in and began jumping behind the pede wagon I failed to find any reason to change my vote. [/QUOTE] :dubious: The Day had just started. I find this incredibly hard to believe. I’m waiting to hear the results of the Witches investigation before hunkering down with a vote. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324/1441 "2008-07-12T02:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami] Nice smudge back. 🙂 Seriously though, I feel as if I’ve addressed your, **Hal** , and **Drain’s** concerns as well as I am conceivably able to until someone investigates either of the bodies, so I really don’t know what else anyone expects me to say. [/QUOTE] I don’t expect you to say anything in particular, but I do expect you _not_ to agree with my criticism of your posts, then try to throw suspicion on me for calling you on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-conspiracy-2-the-cabal-strikes-back-game-over/452324.md?page=73)