# Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT FIVE **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 12, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855 "2009-01-12T01:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/261 "2009-01-16T16:58:39Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > We **don’t** know that at all. We know Blam claimed that he was blocked tht Night, but we don’t know if he was telling the truth, nor do we know why he was blocked if he was. Maybe he had a restriction on his role that caused it to fail. Maybe he was blocked by someone. There’s no reason to assume it was caused by a protective role, and at this point plenty of reason to assume it was caused by something else altogether(specifically, the fact that NAF wasn’t protected.) I wouldn’t take Naf’s death as evidence against there being a doctor. The doctor could have not believed Naf’s claim. The scum could have a kill that wouldn’t be stopped by a doc. I think there is likely a doc, because there is almost always a doc, and there was less death than potential killers, but we don’t really have evidence one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/262 "2009-01-16T17:03:09Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Amrussell, I’m not sure I agree with your analysis of the PM. If you posit that it’s an edited one, are you assuming he faked the powers or do you feel that they are real? I can’t imagine a scum being given those powers. They just don’t fit with a scum role in any way. Why would a scum want to scare off an attacker at Night? Yes, I realize we had 2 SKs, but SKs are generally more pro-scum than pro-town, since by odds alone they’re more likely to kill Town than scum. What if the SKs were getting points for killing Scum? It does make sense, \*\*Peeker \*\*claimed 2 points for killing **Bufftabby** , and then outted himself. It would also make sense with \*\*Blam \*\*having some detective skills, so he can find Scum ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/263 "2009-01-16T17:12:58Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Boldings mine > > First you seem to believe we have a doc in the game - and therefore you would like **MHaye** to show us what’s in his magic bag. > > But then you point out _that **NAF** wasn’t protected_. So why do you think we have a doc and why do you think this doc didn’t protect **NAF**? There does seem to be an easy exlanation to the protection issue (even including a regular doc), though I’m not sure why \*\*MHaye \*\*hasn’t brought it up in his defense. On Nights 2 and 3, it’s possible that both \*\*MHaye \*\*and the doc protected **NAF**. There was a WiFoM situation with them and the Scum as to if they would protect \*\*NAF \*\*or his recently confirmed. \*\*MHaye \*\*may have felt like the doc would be protecting **NAF** , and had been, since **NAF** ’s confirmed were being killed. So maybe he decided to switch to cookies or total (knowing they would be **NAF** -confirmed) and maybe the doctor did too. Or, maybe \*\*MHaye \*\*stopped trusting **NAF** , since no one targeted him. However, with all that said. I’m not buying into **MHaye** ’s story at this time. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/264 "2009-01-16T17:47:44Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > JSexton has dropped off the face of the game toDay, by my reckoning. No, just toNight. I’ve been fleshing out the timeline of the game, trying to see if MHaye’s claimed actions makes sense to me, magic bag or no. So far, not so much. My instincts as doc are to play conservatively, and protect the best target, instead of trying to get cute and outthink an unknown group of players. I realize that my way is not always someone else’s way, but I’m having a hard time reconciling not protecting NAF. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/265 "2009-01-16T18:44:24Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > What if the SKs were getting points for killing Scum? It does make sense, \*\*Peeker \*\*claimed 2 points for killing **Bufftabby** , and then outted himself. > > It would also make sense with \*\*Blam \*\*having some detective skills, so he can find Scum My totally arbitrary guess is that the serial killers, assuming BlaM was telling the truth about his powers, were only able to kill/“get points” for a specific and probably disjoint between them subset of the players. I doubt this has much relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/266 "2009-01-16T19:27:14Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > And where the hell is Rapier? [/Lurk] Rapier and KidV on the offboard are one in the same. He announced on the offboard away thread that he was on vacation. Until, I believe, next week. His participation was going to be limited to begin with, but then he announced somewhere that his laptop, with which he was going to use to occosaionally check in in on these games, died, so he won’t be back until he comes off of vacation. [Lurk] ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/267 "2009-01-16T19:31:38Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > My totally arbitrary guess is that the serial killers, assuming BlaM was telling the truth about his powers, were only able to kill/“get points” for a specific and probably disjoint between them subset of the players. I doubt this has much relevance. Might have something to do with the alpha/beta distincion. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/268 "2009-01-16T19:58:24Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Ped, to be fair, we have seen that the Vig doesn’t always make the best choices in the world. (Hi pleo! :p) That said, not protecting Naf last Night doesn’t make any sense, Mhaye’s magic bag of some other super secret hidden role notwithstanding. At this stage of the game, I can’t imagine a more important role than a pseudo-cop that can confirm Townies, since they’re the most important thing in the end game. > > Amrussell, I’m not sure I agree with your analysis of the PM. If you posit that it’s an edited one, are you assuming he faked the powers or do you feel that they are real? I can’t imagine a scum being given those powers. They just don’t fit with a scum role in any way. Why would a scum want to scare off an attacker at Night? Yes, I realize we had 2 SKs, but SKs are generally more pro-scum than pro-town, since by odds alone they’re more likely to kill Town than scum. I agree with you in a sense that I feel he edited his real PM, but I just don’t think that the points you bring up are things we should be focusing on. > > In the end, I think he is more likely to be scum than not, and that is where I shall be voting for the time being. > > **vote Mhaye** Here’s a thought: Each night, he can target someone. Anyone who targets that person gets killed/stunned…he could be, like, a curser. He lays a curse on someone, making him deadly (or near deadly) to all those around him. Consider–the scum had 3 people and 5 days to come up with fake roles, plus all of their PMs for the style aspect. That it looks believable does not render it believable. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I don’t remember seeing anything about vote-stealing… I can change the vote of a fellow mason once per day. More or less useless, now, since HM’s confirmed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/269 "2009-01-16T20:08:26Z")
ok, just promise that you’ll let HM have her own say. See previous “don’t let pede carry the explosives” comment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/270 "2009-01-16T20:18:08Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > ok, just promise that you’ll let HM have her own say. > > See previous “don’t let pede carry the explosives” comment. 😃 He won’t need to do anything. We will be voting together. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/271 "2009-01-16T20:32:35Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > And I still think some of brewha’s statements around the end of the Day yesterday are quite fishy. Could you be more specific? You only think I was acting fishy because hal turned up town. Had he turned up scum, my posts would have made perfect sense. I’ve already said this, but I’ll try and state it more clearly. I didn’t like the way the votes swung from hal to Mhaye. Hal’s lead in the votes slowly crept up as the day wore on. At 3:41(CST) Hal had 6 votes and Mhaye had 4. over the next 50 mins, Dotchan voted Mhaye and Total Lost, Cookies, and Special Ed all unvoted Hal and voted for Mhaye. At 4:29, Hal had 3 votes and Mhaye had 8. And that’s when I made my remark that most people found fishy. Lets say that Hal was scum and Mhaye isn’t. Mhaye was the next in line vote wise. If scum were rushing to save Hal, they would have put their votes on the next closest person in the votes. To me, that’s what looked like was going on. Of course, now that we know Hal is town, I was obviously wrong. But, like it had been said many times before that, with only a few people voting, scum could easily turn the tide of the vote and choose who they wanted to lynch. I had no way of knowing that is what wasn’t going on. I was concerned about the sudden swing of votes and felt I needed to comment. In retrospect, I wish I hadn’t. I’m not sure that I believe Mhaye’s claim. And even if he is a doctor, he’s done a pretty poor job of it. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/272 "2009-01-16T20:34:56Z")
Oh, and I missed a part. The day ended at 6:00 PM (CST) which was only 90 mins from when Mhaye took the drastic lead. I just seemed to me like a last minute attempt for scum to save one of their own. Yeah, I know Cookies is town, but I was pretty sure that there was a significant scum presence in those eight votes. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/273 "2009-01-16T21:18:48Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > I’ve already said this, but I’ll try and state it more clearly. I didn’t like the way the votes swung from hal to Mhaye. Hal’s lead in the votes slowly crept up as the day wore on. > > At 3:41(CST) Hal had 6 votes and Mhaye had 4. > > over the next 50 mins, Dotchan voted Mhaye and Total Lost, Cookies, and Special Ed all unvoted Hal and voted for Mhaye. > > At 4:29, Hal had 3 votes and Mhaye had 8. From my perspective, and I think I stated this, I had believed \*\*Hal \*\*more likely to be Scum. I switched my vote as \*\*total \*\*\*\*lost \*\*and \*\*cookies \*\*did, because I was of the belief that our confirmed and semi-confirmed were going to try to vote in a block. \*\*Pede \*\*and \*\*HM \*\*were voting/unvoting/revoting for **Almost** , who had 2 votes. I don’t recall the exact changes, but it really was comical, then total and cookies abandoned **MHaye**. so I went back to **Hal**. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/274 "2009-01-16T21:43:55Z")
My vote did not leave MHaye and is in fact still there. This is the statement that brewha made that struck me: > [@](#): > > I’m just worried that this last minute flurry is precipitated by scum trying to get the pressure off of Hal. It’s just been in the last couple of hours that the vote has swung dramatically. This seem off to anyone else? > > If MHaye swings and turns out to be town, I’ll be looking very close at those who changed their votes at the last minute. > > I just feel like we’re being herded here. Of the four votes that seemed to bother brewha (Dotchan, myself, Total Lost, and special ed) two of us were in the confirmed-attempt-to-vote-as-a-block, and by voting for Mhaye, we joined pedescribe in his vote for Mhaye and for the briefest of moments had achieved 3/4 of our total available block on Mhaye. As I commented shortly thereafter, people were basically coming out and saying they were willing to vote with the block. Half of the block moved and joined another 1/4 of the block. Unconfirmed players joined us. Now if there hadn’t been a block of confirmed players, and if we hadn’t experienced an exodus from MHaye that put a townie Hal in the noose, I may have not thought twice about brewha. But there was a block, the block was in the process of moving to MHaye, and we did have enough votes move from MHaye that resulted in a townie Hal being lynched. So a FOS on brewha at this point, for ignoring that whatever herding sensation that was being perceived probably had more to do with the block activity than anything else, and injecting just enough paranoia and doubt to break up a perfectly good MHaye lynch that a lot of us appear to have decided to try again toMorrow. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/275 "2009-01-16T22:08:23Z")
I seem to have said something that I thought perfectly clear, but enough others have misinterpreted what I said that maybe I should have spelled out what I was talking about. First read Hawkeyeop’s post [post=10698904]D05.225[/post], then read [post=10699790]my reply[/post]. Hawk asked me why I didn’t burn off my first protection so that, when I defended a Townie against an attacker later, I killed the attacker? My reply was “What if that attacker were a Vig?” Why does _any_one assume that I’m talking about defending Pedescribe on Night 1 here when a moment’s thought would show that fort the idiocy it is? Hawk did in the very next post, and amrussell in [post=10701340]D05.245[/post]. Please stop thinking I’m that silly. _ **Of course** _ I was not worried about a Vig attacking Pede on Night 1. Why should I be? But if I had used my warning shot on Night 1, and then I (or the one I guarded) were attacked by a Vig who had come to a different conclusion than I did, I’d kill an active Town power role, and simultaneously lose the ability to defend myself any more – a double whammy to the Town. That’s what I meant. Worse, defending Pedescribe on Night 1 was an action likely to result in a waste of that shell. Think about the implications of the way my power works, compared to that of a regular Doc. The Doc works by reactively healing the damage inflicted by the attack so that the victim lives; I stop the attack from ever occurring in the first place. Let’s suppose that I had protected Pedescribe, and that a healer-type Doc had also protected Pedescribe, who was then attacked in the Night by a malign intruder – a deadite or PFK. I (assuming that I could detect the attacker) would have spent my first cartridge that Night, and the healer Doc would have twiddled their thumbs. One of my aims throughout has been to maximise the number of protections the Town had each Night, to increase the likelihood of a block. We now know that BlaM attacked Pedescribe in Night 1, and someone _did_ save Pede. I consider that a validation of my reasoning that Night. I now go back to answer other queries people raised after I went to the land of Nod. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/276 "2009-01-16T22:51:50Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > In the span of a few lines you manage to discuss the possibility of a Vig and then suddenly come down with Vig amnesia. A potential downside of protecting an unconfirmed NAF would’ve been if a pro-town Vig had taken a shot at him, and you would’ve gotten in the way. Good point. Again, my reasoning depends on a lot of “if I were role x, what would I do in this situation?” type thinking. In the case of Vig attacking NAF, I thought the chance was low. Remember, the proposed plan was for NAF to build a group of investigated players that would be cleared when he died and his alignment became known. Since he could only investigate one statement per Day, it would take time to build a respectable number - at least three Days. In Night 2 we had one reliable result. A Town aligned Vig would only go after NAF at that point if he was pretty certain that NAF was lying. If there were enough evidence for NAF’s untruthfulness in the thread, I’d like to think I would have caught it. I thought a Vig would only attack NAF if they had private information that NAF was lying - ie there was a combination Vig/Detective, or a cop who could talk to a Vig privately in game. I didn’t think either eventuality was likely. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/277 "2009-01-17T00:31:29Z")
Ladies, gentlemen, Noids: **The Dawn is now on temporary administrative hold. A game-related situation has arisen that requires me to consult with minds greater than my own to make a decision. Thank you for your patience; I will extend the forthcoming Day to last a full 72 hours, regardless of how long Dawn is delayed.** ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/278 "2009-01-17T02:38:31Z")
[Day the Sixth.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10704712#post10704712) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855.md?page=13)