# Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT FIVE **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 12, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855 "2009-01-12T01:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/121 "2009-01-14T20:45:29Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I’ve got pretty huge problems with this. AMRussell, you’ve got a distinct tendency to vilify a person for one behavior, then turn around and smudge someone with the exact opposite accusation. Earlier, you made an accusation that someone voted too hastily. Now, you’re accusing brewha based on being too cautious to vote? I don’t think your analysis of the timing here holds any water at all. Enough time passed between his unvote for Cookies and his vote for Peeker that I’m perfectly willing to believe that he re-read and decided that a vote was in order. I’d normally consider is scummier to hop immediately from wagon to wagon. There’s a certain justice in that perception. What I’m doing is reading over someone and asking myself, “Is what they’ve done consistent with their being scum?” If I find something that isn’t - for example, **special ed** crafting \*\*DiggitCamara’\*\*s question for TF, which was expected to reveal a new scum - then I consider them more likely to be townie. If I ever find something that’s just obviously scum, then I’ll make a song and dance about it. Usually, I find some stuff that could be scum motivated. And then I point it out, challenge them on it and see what they say. The basic idea is to start with the hypothesis that someone is scum and try to falsify it. Because there’s no such thing as scum behaviour, I do end up finding apparently contradictory behaviours scummy. But that’s bound to happen. Remember the whole discussion about “scum would never do that”? If I suspect \*\*Rapier42 \*\*for repeatedly being on bandwagons, it doesn’t mean that I can’t suspect \*\*Nanook \*\*for lurking, or you for being on one and then failing to vote for two straight Days. > [@](#): > > The biggest problem I have with brewha as mafia is that he’d have to have been willing to bus macey day one. That was a wagon that started strong and never let up. It’s not impossible, of course, but I’m extending him some townie cred for it. I’d need to see something an order of magnitude stronger than what you’ve got. **brewha** ’s vote for \*\*macey \*\*is a big point in his favour. But there are two points to make against it. 1) The whole point of bussing is to make big points in your favour. 2) \*\*brewha \*\*voted early (possibly first, IIRC) and, as you say that wagon started strong and never let up. Enough people got into suspicion over saying they wouldn’t vote - what would have happened to an unvoter? > [@JSexton](#): > > This is totally unwarranted. Nothing brewha said indicates that he’s planning to stop thinking, only that he’s prepared to give weight to the opinions of known town. Which makes sense, because then you can deal with their logic without having to stress about motivation. > [@brewha](#): > > How am I acting like there are only two candidates? Please tell me how you see that. > > Listening to NAF or listening to Hawkeye meant that I would either vote for Cookies or I wouldn’t. It’s this bit, right here. You’re acting like it’s a choice between following \*\*NAF \*\*or following **Hawkeye**. It’s not about that. It’s about you using your own judgement to vote for whoever is scummiest. Pretending that you’re choosing between two sides is abdicating responsibility. Backing the known townie - and claiming that as your justification - makes you look like you want to look good. On preview: again, this bit: > [@](#): > > So, now knowing that Hawkeye wanted to see Cookies strung up, I re-voted her. What?! He’s dead town, he’s not the God-Emperor reborn. Why were you so quick to follow what the one active known townie wanted? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/122 "2009-01-14T20:54:03Z")
[quote=“amrussell, post:121, topic:480855”] On preview: again, this bit: What?! He’s dead town, he’s not the God-Emperor reborn. [QUOTE] I’m not? Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/123 "2009-01-14T20:55:37Z")
[quote=“Hawkeyeop, post:122, topic:480855”] [quote=“amrussell, post:121, topic:480855”] On preview: again, this bit: What?! He’s dead town, he’s not the God-Emperor reborn. > [@](#): > > I’m not? Damn. Sorry, I should have broken it to you more gently. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/124 "2009-01-14T20:58:38Z")
I’m not feeling the Hal lynch. He has got that stubborn townie vibe in him. I think if he was scum he would attempted a claim here. If we must pick a lurker, I’d rather Mhaye. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/125 "2009-01-14T21:06:05Z")
At this point, I’m alternating between leaving my vote on Hal and switching it to Mhaye. Hal has significantly less overall posts to analyze, possibly resulting in over-analysis of what he has posted. I was obviously drawing suspicions from a lot of townies prior to my confirmation, and a few of you are still not sure what to do with me, which is fine. A townie Hal would be in good townie company for wanting to see my swing. All of this is fine and dandy, but does not shake my suspicions of him. The fact that Hal is voting for MHaye basically reinforces a need, imho, to crawl the threads looking at them both, and paying particular attention to any interactions between them. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/126 "2009-01-14T21:14:44Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > There’s the correct order and my thinking. What can I say, I was wrong purely do to laziness. That’ll be the last time I assume I am remembering correctly. Thanks, like I said I have you leaning townie because of the macey vote, so I’ll **unvote brewha** And since **Nanook** is also back, I’ll have to look again who I do vote for. The case against MHaye mostly based on his last minute vote before Dusk Day Four: > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT FOUR](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/236): > > I think we’re at a tie now. thanks to Special Ed, who (if memory serves) was intending to vote BlaM earlier. I don’t know what happens in the event of a tie, but don’t think a no-lynch is in our favour. > > Hal claimed Alpha Redshirt (I think). > > \ > > I really can’t see BlaM as anything other than a PFK. > > I think we’ve got enough time to waste a mislycvh on a claimed vanilla, and sort BlaM Tomorrow. > > [COLOR=“DarkOrange”]\ > > Vote Blaster Master > > Sorry BlaM. (snips in orange, follow the link to make sure, but I don’t think I butchered it) It looks like MHaye was going to vote **Hal** , but saw special ed and me talking about a tie (which was wrong because I counted wrong, it was 6-5, not 5-5 when MHaye voted). MHaye says this about it: > [@MHaye](#): > > The record-keeping error was that I had miscounted BlaM’s votes, and thought (when Special Ed voted for Hal) that the two were tied. That leads straight to the next point. > > The shiny distraction : The possibility that by voting for Hal I might cause the lynch of another deadite. My thought processes when I saw Special Ed’s vote bounced off the idea that he had created a tie, and what if he were right? Lynching a deadite was better than lynching a PFK, and if he was wrong all we’d lose was a vanilla, and the gain would be worth risking offing a vanilla, and I need to reword the first bit, and I need to add something at the start about the tie, and … > > Then the more rational part of me caught up and I realised that all I had was a “me too” vote I couldn’t support without a lot of digging I did’t have time for, and that might turn out to be wrong anyway. So I junked it until later. (It’s not later yet). -he counted wrong too -thought Hal might be scum and that special ed thought so too. special ed [didn’t think](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10672889&postcount=232) [Hal was Deadite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10672902&postcount=233) though. -he didn’t have time to look for support Hal was scum, but he was originally voting Hal to give BlaM an extra Day to prove himself town. -He wants to let BlaM live till tomorrow by voting Hal, but that would only work if they were already at a tie. If he believed that, than special eds vote put BlaM in the lead. So if scum he wanted to PFK to live (bigger chance to hurt town than scum), but didn’t want to create a tie to draw attention and thus voted BlaM. If town, he was just posting in a hurry and made mistakes. The other part about the post is the ‘Hal is Alpha vanilla’ thing. I’m not sure it is a scum slip, he could be confusing him with dotchan or Chucara who did claim that. The case against Hal is lurking, sneakily claiming vanilla and a weak case to vote Cookies. I’m not strongly convinced of both cases, but I haven’t been able to find a better one Today. **vote MHaye** mainly for clearly thinking BlaM was PFK, but willing to sacrifice a town to let him live another Day. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/127 "2009-01-14T21:20:32Z")
_\_ > [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > I’ll be running a training class in a few minutes, and likely won’t be back until the Day is over. So… Class was cancelled, so I’ll be around for another hour – just so no one comes back later and says “Ah hah! Hal lied! Look, he posted in other threads when he said he was running a training class!” ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/128 "2009-01-14T21:27:27Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > VOTE COUNT > > **Nanook** (3) - Millit the Frail, dotchan, Natlaw > **Mhaye** (3) - Hal Briston, Zeriel, pedescribe > **Hal Briston** (3) - Cookies, special ed, hockey monkey > **brewha** (1) - amrussell > **JSexton** (1) - Almost Human > > Day to end in about five hours, whether I’m able to end it immediately at that time or not. I’m not really fine with this vote - but since Pede can say TotalLost’s post “notwithstanding” I’ll have to say at this point: Pede’s vote “notwithstanding” - sorry Pede! I say I would vote with the confirmed and therefore (I didn’t have a chance to read all of the Day) - so this is a crappy vote **Vote Hal Briston** ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/129 "2009-01-14T21:35:58Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > And I’ll meet your example with **Darth Sensitive** ’s [“ToDay was a disaster”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9574350&postcount=1148) statement from The Mafia Is Recruiting. It could’ve been an innocent slip as well, but it wasn’t – he was the Godfather. Hal, I’m not disputing that it happens. It does, and it’s so memorable that it drowns out the times when it’s a slip by an innocent. That’s what I was saying. > [@](#): > > I’ll say to you what I said to him at the time – there is a possibility that this was a slip…that’s all it is, a possibility. If you want me to change my vote, then convince me otherwise. I’ve told you how it happened. You can choose to believe me or not. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/130 "2009-01-14T21:36:55Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > I’m not really fine with this vote - but since Pede can say TotalLost’s post “notwithstanding” I’ll have to say at this point: Pede’s vote “notwithstanding” - sorry Pede! > > I say I would vote with the confirmed and therefore (I didn’t have a chance to read all of the Day) - so this is a crappy vote > > **Vote Hal Briston** I can’t speak for Hockey Monkey, but there is a significant chance my vote will end up on MHaye, so if you are going to vote with “the herd” (not ideal, but at least we know you’re not doing so with malicious intent) I don’t think the “the herd” votes have necessarily settled yet. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/131 "2009-01-14T21:41:54Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > I’m not really fine with this vote - but since Pede can say TotalLost’s post “notwithstanding” I’ll have to say at this point: Pede’s vote “notwithstanding” - sorry Pede! If you have time please re-read to make sure you’re fine with your vote. **Hockey Monkey** ’s vote is a poke the lurker vote from the beginning of the Day and **Hal Briston** has posted since, but HM hasn’t. _ **Unofficial vote count** _ - 2h20m to go: **Hal Briston** (6) - Cookies, special ed, hockey monkey, brewha, Nanook, Total Lost **Mhaye** (4) - Hal Briston, Zeriel, pedescribe, Natlaw **Nanook** (2) - Millit the Frail, dotchan **brewha** (1) - amrussell **JSexton** (1) - Almost Human ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/132 "2009-01-14T21:47:23Z")
**unvote Nanook** **vote MHaye** Admittedly, all I have on MHaye is that post about Hal (oh, the headache inducing paranoid conspiracy thoughts that this has brought up), but I’m going to go with my gut on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/133 "2009-01-14T21:48:03Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > At this point, I’m alternating between leaving my vote on Hal and switching it to Mhaye. > > Hal has significantly less overall posts to analyze, possibly resulting in over-analysis of what he has posted. I was obviously drawing suspicions from a lot of townies prior to my confirmation, and a few of you are still not sure what to do with me, which is fine. A townie Hal would be in good townie company for wanting to see my swing. All of this is fine and dandy, but does not shake my suspicions of him. > > The fact that Hal is voting for MHaye basically reinforces a need, imho, to crawl the threads looking at them both, and paying particular attention to any interactions between them. I just finish reading - and I’ll be fine with a MHaye-vote reather then a Hal. So much for ud to agree 😉 **Unvote Hal** - when does Day end?? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/134 "2009-01-14T21:48:35Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I can’t speak for Hockey Monkey, but there is a significant chance my vote will end up on MHaye, so if you are going to vote with “the herd” (not ideal, but at least we know you’re not doing so with malicious intent) I don’t think the “the herd” votes have necessarily settled yet. If you want to change your vote, I suggest you do it soon. We want to give Mhaye a chance to claim if he wishes. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/135 "2009-01-14T21:51:40Z")
I’m gathering my cites, and he’s got plenty of pressure for a claim without my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/136 "2009-01-14T21:56:07Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > If you want to change your vote, I suggest you do it soon. We want to give Mhaye a chance to claim if he wishes. The way this game is played with the short Day is just not good for Town (and it’s even worse when RL come in the way AND night are filled with game-talk). But you’re right - we need to vote soon to give Mhaye a chance to claim… I really don’t see the point in the “confirmed” to vote together - when it works like this! But I’ll give it a chance for now and **Vote Mhaye** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/137 "2009-01-14T22:00:38Z")
Ok, that took a long time and wow was there a lot of apologies, excuses, and fluffy historical commentary about other games, inside jokes, ongoing strategy debates…and not much about this game. Other than what has already been quoted recently, I think this is worth bringing up: > [@Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/200): > > Brewha : Dusk is at about 6:00pm, or five hours from now. > > I’ve just finished a reread of Night Zero, and am starting on Day 1. I should have a vote down before the end of the Day (I have to go out for about an hour, but I should still have time to vote.) > > From Night 0, I got a couple of things that rubbed me the wrong way, in addition to Pedescribe’s slip. That’s no longer an issue, unless by some remote chance there are no masons in this game, an eventuality that I’m not prepared to waste time thinking about now. They were bad ideas, which aren’t themselves scummy. The flaws in Chuchara’s idea had been exposed by the end of Night 0, and his reaction to the problems didn’t make me any more suspicious. > > The other I’ll discuss after I’ve reread this thread, in order to take any comments made Today into account. I also want to hold off weighing in on the two claim suggestions until after the reread, for the same reason. > > Back to the beginning I go. > > On preview : my vote count spreadsheet agrees with Natlaw. The statement about how there could be no masons, ergo even an un-counter-claimed mason carries risk caught my eye. It is valid, but in my mind it pretty much goes without saying, yet he said it. It could also be seen as possibly fishing for another mason to come out and back **pede** up (which I’m glad no one did). It might be interesting (though admittedly confirmation bias) if Hockey Monkey happens to remember that statement and whether or not she had any thoughts about it at the time, as one of pede’s fellow masons. **Unvote Hal Vote Mhaye** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/138 "2009-01-14T22:03:30Z")
Yeah I thought the day was going to last a little longer too. I wasn’t sure when you’d (TL) be back, and without a refresh from Hockey Monkey, we weren’t going to end up with an informed block vote anyway. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/139 "2009-01-14T22:16:35Z")
I would still rather vote **Hal** , but I’m also willing to follow our confirmed and not allow a last minute scum flurry. I’ve no idea where the vote actually is. I have Day ending in 1 hour 45 minutes. I’ll pay attention, and change my vote accordingly if there’s a believeable enough claim and backing from confirmeds. **Unvote Hal Vote Mhaye** ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855/140 "2009-01-14T22:16:36Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Yeah I thought the day was going to last a little longer too. I wasn’t sure when you’d (TL) be back, and without a refresh from Hockey Monkey, we weren’t going to end up with an informed block vote anyway. Let’s see how this turns out - and agree to get votes in a bit more early in the furture 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-five/480855.md?page=8)