# Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT FOUR **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 6, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155 "2009-01-06T23:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/121 "2009-01-08T23:33:00Z")
…I’m not going to weigh in on the BlaM case until tomorrow morning, like I promised. On Natlaw: I’m getting a townie vibe from his posts as well. Unlike cookies, however, his ‘slip’ really doesn’t look scummy to me. It looks like he’s trying to correct something he perceives as an error–a null tell. So I’m not seeing it. Rapier, though…that is a bit more convincing. Still not sure…I’ll have to take a closer look at his posts. MHaye needs to show up a bit more. As do others. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/122 "2009-01-08T23:34:13Z")
Is anyone comfortable with sleeping on what to do with BLaM? There is still a stack of low-participation players to shuffle through… ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/123 "2009-01-08T23:35:45Z")
I am satisfied by what he has said so far. I really don’t like some of the choices he has made, but for the moment I don’t feel he is the best lynch. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/124 "2009-01-08T23:36:49Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > …I’m not going to weigh in on the BlaM case until tomorrow morning, like I promised. > > On Natlaw: I’m getting a townie vibe from his posts as well. Unlike cookies, however, his ‘slip’ really doesn’t look scummy to me. It looks like he’s trying to correct something he perceives as an error–a null tell. So I’m not seeing it. Rapier, though…that is a bit more convincing. Still not sure…I’ll have to take a closer look at his posts. > > MHaye needs to show up a bit more. As do others. What slip? Are you referring to past games? Or is the use of capitalization in my PM in this game now a “slip” after first being a “lie” and then being “grammar”? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/125 "2009-01-08T23:37:52Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > My towniness goes without saying. And, in fact, I’d hoped that you may have considered investigating me at an earlier point, but it is unfortunate that you did not. The second sentence there indicates that you have read NAF’s claim, and understand the implications and limitations of it. It is immediately apparent that he can only evaluate a given statement as true or false. Why would you possibly think that sentence 1 is one that would qualify? Sure, it’s a common idiom, but not an applicable one. In mafia, no one’s townieness goes without saying. It’s kinda the point fo the game. > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > And with regard to NAF’s question, I’m glad that you deliberately misworded what I said. What I said was “[it] goes without saying” which, is a very common idiom. Does that really bother you so much? Would you prefer that I say “yes”? I can say it if it makes you feel better. Yes. Do you feel better? Sorry for, you know, typing how I speak. :dubious: Here you attack someone for calling you on your evasion, which you then follow up with an evasion. You have to know that simply saying “Yes” is meaningless. > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Fair enough. I am town. After a half dozen people ask for it directly, and not one but two evasions on your part. > [@](#): > > I was under the impression that intention was sufficient because it has, at least, been my experience thus far, that my intentions have been appropriately interpreted by our illustrious mod. Not buying this. It’s exactly what I’d expect someone caught evading to say. > [@](#): > > So I have to ask you, if I am scum, how exactly is anything that I’ve done been, in anyway pro-scum? Don’t you think that I’d know better than to lurk like that as scum? And then, of all things, encourage myself to be investigated? My life expectancy, if I’m lying scum, is a maximum of Tomorrow, because he’d investigate, see I’m lying, and I’d get lynched. Well, see, you’ve already admitted that you switched up play style in order to avoid attention. Granted, that can be a good thing for town, but are you really saying you see no scum benefit in it? If you’d even posted a couple times more than you did, you might have slid by unnoticed, so it very nearly worked. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I can confirm that someone felt me up last Night: > > I’m inclined to give BLaM the benefit of the doubt for now, and unless someone steps up to say that they targeted me in some way, I’m inclined to believe that BLaM did indeed target me with some sort of power. Yes, BLaM himself could be the hideously evil and scaly one, or one of his scummy brethren. BUT…I don’t think a scummy BLaM would’ve done an about face on his vote for me like that. I think it would’ve been relatively easy for a scummy BLaM to catalyze a sizable bandwagon against me toDay, and he chose not to take that route, ergo I don’t think he’s scum. I’m not _convinced_ that he’s not scum, just doubtful. Man, does no one else smell mafia investigator there? I’m willing to beleive that BLam didn’t know his target would get a PM as well, or he wouldn’t have claimed it. But, wow, hideeously evil? How do we just let that go? vote Blaster Master ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/126 "2009-01-08T23:39:11Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > One observation about the level of lurking. I think a symptom of the non-posting players might play out in that I feel a lot of suspicion directed against me, while Millit seems to think I have managed to build up a lot of townie cred. Do we each of tunnel-vision about the opposing vocal minorities while we ignore those players who either just aren’t participating in those conversations or in the game in general? > > I’m still not sure which one of us is right, or if it is basically even split between both, but I’m trying to not give too much emphasis to those who are speaking out against me, which is a challenge. I should explain: what I meant by that was that I have you as “strong townie” in my book. Comes from voting patterns. Specifically, **Buffy** voted for you during the **macey** lynch. There was absolutely no reason for her to try to start a wagon on some other scum at that point. As for “you vs. **Hawkeye** ,” it’s not a binary situation where one of you had to be scum and the other not. That’s a great scum trap–create a binary scerario (I might be using that word incorrectly). I don’t buy it. And your roleclaim is a little weird, but hey, this game has got to have an Ash (I’ve been reading up!), and at this point, the real Ash could have easily counterclaimed. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/127 "2009-01-08T23:41:43Z")
> [@Millit\_the\_Frail](#): > > NETA: Maybe I just need to sort this out in my mind…I’m really confused here. BlaM, if you ARE town and really don’t want to spill more about your powers, then don’t. I suppose there are other ways to interpret what went on, but my mind is only slowly wrapping around them. It’s no surprise that it’s confusing. Even I find my role confusing. Hell, it took **storyteller** two whole PMs to explain my role to me. Either way, as I’m sure **storyteller** would say if he were in this game in my position, color is not a reason to vote for someone. **Cookies** having a dream about an ugly doppleganger and me claiming to have targetted her last night does not mean that I’m scum. Color is never good reason to lynch anyone. And, if my intentions were to cause her harm, considering that she’s a pretty unlikely doctor target last night, she probably would have turned up dead Today, no? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/128 "2009-01-08T23:42:21Z")
Huh, I didn’t notice that. I suck. I blame the long day at work. Cookies, want to quote your PM last Night one more time? Blam…you want to comment in a way that makes you not that evil doppleganger? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/129 "2009-01-08T23:43:59Z")
Wow, I post too slow. Color isn’t a good reason to lynch someone, except when it is. This is one of those is times. unvote Natlaw vote BlaM ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/130 "2009-01-08T23:51:40Z")
He’s either The Evil One, or he’s some sort of third party dream catalyst. Dissecting the color is really not my favorite way of making a decision, so I just want to put out there that I hope whoever is consider voting for him only uses the color if they’re not able to come to a conclusion any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/131 "2009-01-09T00:03:14Z")
Updated spreadsheet is in my signature. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/132 "2009-01-09T00:07:22Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The second sentence there indicates that you have read NAF’s claim, and understand the implications and limitations of it. It is immediately apparent that he can only evaluate a given statement as true or false. Why would you possibly think that sentence 1 is one that would qualify? Sure, it’s a common idiom, but not an applicable one. In mafia, no one’s townieness goes without saying. It’s kinda the point fo the game. You’re misinterpretting my statement. I use “that goes without saying” as an affirmation. That is “Are you town?” and “that goes without saying” is equivalent to saying yes. If I’d said “yes” would I still be getting badgering? And if I were scum, WTF is the point of deliberately avoiding that question? Surely someone who answered it by now is likely to be scum, right? Don’t you think that if I were scum, I’d realize that it would be really stupid to deliberately draw attention to me refusing to answer the question? Hey, I’ve got a bright idea, I’m under heat for lurking, so I’m gonna come in and do a whole bunch of really stupid things to… what? > [@](#): > > Here you attack someone for calling you on your evasion, which you then follow up with an evasion. You have to know that simply saying “Yes” is meaningless. > > After a half dozen people ask for it directly, and not one but two evasions on your part. No, my interpretation was that “yes” was sufficient. It is clear in the context to anyone that reads that post what the “yes” was in response to, so there is no reason to believe that it was ambiguous in any way. Yes is just as much a true or false there as any other statement I could have made. And it wasn’t after badgering, by half a dozen people either, especially since three people simul-posted. If NAF had asked me to say “I am town”, then the logical response is “I am town”. If he asks me “Are you town?” then the logical response is “Are you town?” > [@](#): > > Not buying this. It’s exactly what I’d expect someone caught evading to say. Confirmation bias. It could be someone evading, or it could, you know, be that that’s what I expected. You of all people should know better than to necessarily see a single possible motivation and ignore others. > [@](#): > > Well, see, you’ve already admitted that you switched up play style in order to avoid attention. Granted, that can be a good thing for town, but are you really saying you see no scum benefit in it? If you’d even posted a couple times more than you did, you might have slid by unnoticed, so it very nearly worked. There is no scum benefit at all, and I will say that definitively. Lurking is one thing, but I simply didn’t post. The whole point was to allow me time to use my power while avoiding Night kills from the scum, and not having to claim. I’ve now had three Nights, and my results were not what I expected. But I’ve employed a similar strategy before in, I believe it was, Simpletown. My goal there, as vanilla town, was to be as scummy as I possibly could without getting myself lynched. I wanted to look scummy so I wouldn’t get Night killed, and so I would draw the attention of the investigator so that I could essentially become a confirmed townie. It worked. In this case, it was a similar idea, except instead of avoiding town suspicion and Night kills by acting scummy, I was attempting to avoid both by inaction. The whole point was, I intended to avoid Night kills for as long as I could, and when I’d finally gotten under suspicion, I would be able to reveal my actions for the benefit of the town. The problem is, as I stated, that not a single one of my actions had the intended result. Fortunately, I got away with some useful information, but the fact that all of my actions have not had the intended results, and that I’d finally gotten enough town suspicion that it was clear that my strategy was not working. > [@](#): > > Man, does no one else smell mafia investigator there? I’m willing to beleive that BLam didn’t know his target would get a PM as well, or he wouldn’t have claimed it. But, wow, hideeously evil? How do we just let that go? Again, you of all people should know that color is color. If I were a scum investigator, why the hell would I investigate **Cookies** last Night? If I’m scum and she’s town, then I can be reasonably sure that she’s telling the truth, so why bother investigating her? Further, did it occur to you that, hey, I double checked my PM and retracted my claim about Cookies LONG before she made any mention about getting a PM about her dream. Could it be that, you know, that was part of the source of my confusion? Especially considering that my other targets have made no indication that they also received a PM about a dream of an ugly doppleganger? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/133 "2009-01-09T00:09:22Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > And, if my intentions were to cause her harm, considering that she’s a pretty unlikely doctor target last night, she probably would have turned up dead Today, no? Unless, as The Evil One, there was some sort of balancing mechanism that (should you have the misfortune of targeting your good twin under cover of night) you can’t kill me because we have a “strange connection”. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/134 "2009-01-09T00:09:31Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > …I’m not going to weigh in on the BlaM case until tomorrow morning, like I promised. > > On Natlaw: I’m getting a townie vibe from his posts as well. Unlike cookies, however, his ‘slip’ really doesn’t look scummy to me. It looks like he’s trying to correct something he perceives as an error–a null tell. So I’m not seeing it. Rapier, though…that is a bit more convincing. Still not sure…I’ll have to take a closer look at his posts. > > MHaye needs to show up a bit more. As do others. The fact that you’re a claimed mason doesn’t give you a pass, either, Ped… exactly how is “hmm, yeah, he could be scum”, with nothing else, helping ANYBODY? If you’ve got something new to bring to the table, I’d like to see it so I can attempt to defend myself. If you think I’ve done an inadequate job of defending myself against existing points, I need to hear about that, too. But this waffling about the issue does nothing more than keep “rapier is scummy” in the back of everyone’s head, without giving me anything to defend myself against, which gives the real scum ample room to waffle along with you, or do something more substantial. Knock it off, please. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/135 "2009-01-09T00:14:40Z")
Well, ok. Would anyone else care to claim they’ve been visited in their dreams by an ugly doppleganger-thing? I’d be willing to buy that the big-baddy can’t kill Ash. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/136 "2009-01-09T00:17:02Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Unless, as The Evil One, there was some sort of balancing mechanism that (should you have the misfortune of targeting your good twin under cover of night) you can’t kill me because we have a “strange connection”. But then, since I claimed long ago, you already knew my role name, so why would the Evil One choose me if there was any risk of the meeting not resulting in a kill, and in this hypothetical I would have to assume that risk would’ve been stipulated in the Evil One’s original role PM. Gah! I am totally running myself in circles in my analysis of you, BLaM. 😕:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/137 "2009-01-09T00:20:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Your dreams were strange and fitful last Night. They were filled with visions of a being who looked just like you, only hideous, scaly, and very, very evil. You awoke with a start in the Night, certain that this doppleganger is among your enemies. You feel a strange connection to this being. Very, very evil you say? And BlaM confirms that he’s the one that visited you and that your PM is consistent with the one he received… …well, I’m pretty sure evil is bad. **vote Blaster Master** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/138 "2009-01-09T00:21:22Z")
Can I get some thoughts on this for a plan? I’m just starting to think it through, but I’m probably missing something important. **NAF** is investigating **Cookies** , and at his death we’ll have possible confirmation of her towniness and **Total** ’s not-deaditeness. **Blam** has come out and given us basically nothing on **cookies** from my interpretation, maybe in the end he’s trying to confirm her truthfulness in her claim. He’s also given us **dotchan** as town. Since we’ve decided to let **NAF** live for now, I think it might be in our benefit to lynch **Blam**. When is the real question. If we lynch him toDay, and he’s town, we can basically semi-confirm **dotchan** and add another null-tell to **Cookies**. If we allow him to live, we add to our WiFoM. Will Scum kill him? Scum should assume protection on **NAF**. So if he’s town, they’d lynch him before he gave us more information. Of course, they know that so…they might want us to do their dirty work for them. I think I would be in the camp for lynching **Blam** , after he gives us full disclosure, since he’ll be slated to die anyway. That gives us the potential for 2 confirmed Town tomorrow that Scum might not be able to eliminate as quickly. Then, depending on his results, maybe Day 5 or 6 is the Day to lynch **NAF** , depending on if we get a Scum or not toDay and toMorrow. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/139 "2009-01-09T00:27:32Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Further, did it occur to you that, hey, I double checked my PM and retracted my claim about Cookies LONG before she made any mention about getting a PM about her dream. Could it be that, you know, that was part of the source of my confusion? Especially considering that my other targets have made no indication that they also received a PM about a dream of an ugly doppleganger? We only have your word that you investigated her last night. Perhaps you investigated her previously or not at all. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/140 "2009-01-09T00:29:22Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Hey, I’ve got a bright idea, I’m under heat for lurking, so I’m gonna come in and do a whole bunch of really stupid things to… what? yopu’re right, Scum would never do that [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155.md?page=8)