# Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT FOUR **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 6, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155 "2009-01-06T23:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/141 "2009-01-09T00:30:48Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > We only have your word that you investigated her last night. Perhaps you investigated her previously or not at all. Not entirely true. We have his word that he investigated me, my word that I had a dream, and no one else coming forward to offer an alternative as to why I had a dream. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/142 "2009-01-09T00:33:26Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Cookies, want to quote your PM last Night one more time? Blam…you want to comment in a way that makes you not that evil doppleganger? Okay, fine, screw it. Since you all are being obnoxious about color, again, I’ll stop being subtle. I have the ability to slip into peoples dreams and I did so last Night to **Cookies**. The way my power works is that I don’t have a specific power, but a series of one-shot abilities. Some of them are similar and differ only in color, some of them are different. But, yes, I slipped into her dream and I caused her to have a nightmare. The idea was, as I said, I thought she was the likely lynch candidate and that it would be an enormous distraction for today. Because my powers are one-shot abilities, I have to use different ones every Night, and I’d already used one that would have equated to an investigation on Dotchan. So, I targetted her with a nightmare with the intention that she would die from a heart attack. If she was scum, all good. If she was vanilla town, well, that sucks, but at least she wouldn’t be a distraction. However, I got a response stating that she did not die and, in my haste, interpretted that to mean that she was definitely not vanilla townie. The part that I missed was the explanation that there was something else at play–I’m not sure what exactly–and that she otherwise would have died. Hence, my confusion when I accused her, because I thought perhaps she was some Night-kill immune scum or something. On Night Two, I targetted Dotchan. AFAICT, she did not receive any information that I targetted her. I used a power that would, more or less, allow me to confirm her role claim, since she’d been explicit and I felt she was a reasonable investigation target. The problem is the response I got wasn’t a “She’s confirmed Alpha Redshirt” but instead “she’s tougher and more, let’s call it “Alpha,” than the rest”. I actually had expected her to turn up scum. As for my actions on Night One, I do not think it is a good idea to reveal who I targetted, or what I targetted them with, because my results reveal some information about the dealings of one of our power roles. It is something that is confirmable, but it would require that power role to come out and say they did that which, unless I missed a claim, that person has not yet done so. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/143 "2009-01-09T00:33:35Z")
The problem with that is, if scum think Towny Blam is a good lynch target, they won’t kill him. See scum vs. Peeker in Marvel. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/144 "2009-01-09T00:35:59Z")
I like **special ed** ’s line of thinking–sounds like a plan to me. Blaster’s lynch will tell us something. I want to add that perhaps only **Cookies** got a PM notification of **Blaster** ’s investigation/whatever because only **Cookies** is Ash. The others might have remained blissfully unaware. As for why **Blaster** would investigate **Cookies** if he’s scum–well, why would a scum investigator do anything at all? Scum know who is town, but they don’t know the power roles’ identities. This could have been an attempt to confirm Ash’s identity for some special purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/145 "2009-01-09T00:36:22Z")
Living Players brewha Mhaye Blam NAF pedescribe Nanook Hockey Monkey Jsexton Millit zeriel Hal Almost Human Total Lost Rapier Natlaw dotchan Cookies special ed amrussell Living Players with no non-vanilla claim brewha Mhaye Nanook Hockey Monkey Jsexton Millit zeriel Hal Almost Human Total Lost Rapier Natlaw dotchan special ed amrussell I’m posting this mostly for my own benefit, but also to highlight a potential lynch pool. Dotchan and zerial have claimed vanilla town. I’m perfectly happy right now with my vote for Blam, but I won’t mind perhaps exploring some other potentials. Say for instance we (for the purposes of a lynch vote) take all the claims we have at face value. That leaves us with a potential lynch pool for today as: brewha Mhaye Nanook Hockey Monkey Jsexton Millit Hal Almost Human Total Lost Rapier Natlaw special ed amrussell I’m not saying I believe all the claims, just using this as a tool for narrowing only for today. Again, I’m happy right now with my BlaM vote, but wanted to bring this up for discussion. (I obviously don’t think I belong on that list, but I put me on there for completeness.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/146 "2009-01-09T00:37:42Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I have the ability to slip into peoples dreams and I did so last Night to **Cookies**. The way my power works is that I don’t have a specific power, but a series of one-shot abilities. Some of them are similar and differ only in color, some of them are different. But, yes, I slipped into her dream and I caused her to have a nightmare. > > The idea was, as I said, I thought she was the likely lynch candidate and that it would be an enormous distraction for today. Because my powers are one-shot abilities, I have to use different ones every Night, and I’d already used one that would have equated to an investigation on Dotchan. but why try to kill **Cookies** when you knew **NAF** was going to be investigating her? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/147 "2009-01-09T00:39:35Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > But then, since I claimed long ago, you already knew my role name, so why would the Evil One choose me if there was any risk of the meeting not resulting in a kill, and in this hypothetical I would have to assume that risk would’ve been stipulated in the Evil One’s original role PM. > > Gah! I am totally running myself in circles in my analysis of you, BLaM. 😕:mad: Quite honestly, I don’t know a damned thing about the Evil One. But based on what you said, I’d guess that would be a good candidate for the Godfather type, no? And if that’s who I was, as you say, knowing you were Ash, why would I target you? Beyond that, if I were the Godfather type, why would I be targetting at all, wouldn’t I be having one of my underlings doing it? And then, how the hell was there another scum kill if I am the Godfather type? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/148 "2009-01-09T00:40:40Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > _splice many lists_ perhaps we should take total out of that pool for the time being too, since NAF might be able to tentatively confirm her non-deaditeness. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/149 "2009-01-09T00:41:53Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > but why try to kill **Cookies** when you knew **NAF** was going to be investigating her? I already said that I didn’t think he was going to be investigating her. I submitted my Night PM shortly after a post by **NAF** stating that he thought investigating her was a bad idea. Hence, my impression that she was not going to be investigated. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/150 "2009-01-09T00:44:36Z")
Ah yes, Total Lost - a quasi-claim. That makes it: brewha Mhaye Nanook Hockey Monkey Jsexton Millit Hal Almost Human Rapier Natlaw special ed amrussell The lurkiest of the lurks on there im my opinion is Hal Briston. I want to hear more from Hal. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/151 "2009-01-09T00:45:48Z")
> [@Millit\_the\_Frail](#): > > I like **special ed** ’s line of thinking–sounds like a plan to me. Blaster’s lynch will tell us something. I want to add that perhaps only **Cookies** got a PM notification of **Blaster** ’s investigation/whatever because only **Cookies** is Ash. The others might have remained blissfully unaware. > > As for why **Blaster** would investigate **Cookies** if he’s scum–well, why would a scum investigator do anything at all? Scum know who is town, but they don’t know the power roles’ identities. This could have been an attempt to confirm Ash’s identity for some special purpose. This is purely confirmation bias, and it doesn’t even jive with what is going on. There is no need to investigate someone who has made that sort of claim. Why would scum need to verify Ash? Why the hell would a townie false claim Ash? All they’d learn is, hey, you’re a townie, and you didn’t false claim. Big surprise! Really, you’re not making a lick of sense now at all. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/152 "2009-01-09T00:46:51Z")
Blam, you say you gave her a dream. Cookies says she had a dream that was “filled with visions of a being who looked just like you, only hideous, scaly, and very, very evil. You awoke with a start in the Night, certain that this doppleganger is among your enemies. You feel a strange connection to this being.” I can say from experience in Marvel, while Story isn’t one to keep good guys good and bad guys bad, he seems fairly consistent in terms of the color he puts in action PMs. I don’t think you have the luxury of withholding information any more… is there anything about your role to indicate why “Good Ash” would have a dream about “Bad Ash” concurrently with your giving Cookies a dream, that doesn’t involve you being, in fact, Bad Ash? Or would you care to speculate that Cookies is lying? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/153 "2009-01-09T00:54:50Z")
According to the spreadsheet, **Blam** has 7 votes already. I’m not going to pile on that bandwagon. I do want the rest of town to have more of an oppportunity to discuss this and make a move. I can access these boards from work, but I really don’t have the time.\* I’ll hold off on voting until I’m home from work, which is a few hours before the deadline.\*\* ```auto * I'm a middle school special ed teacher. For obvious reasons, our filtering software in a middle school blocks Facebook and the games there. For an unknown reason (or maybe because **bufftabby** and **santo** play there, the off-board site is labeled as pornographic to our web filter. This site, though seems to be OK. ** Unless a particular one of my co-workers asks me to join them for happy hour. In which case, you're on your own. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/154 "2009-01-09T00:55:48Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Blam, you say you gave her a dream. > > Cookies says she had a dream that was “filled with visions of a being who looked just like you, only hideous, scaly, and very, very evil. You awoke with a start in the Night, certain that this doppleganger is among your enemies. You feel a strange connection to this being.” > > I can say from experience in Marvel, while Story isn’t one to keep good guys good and bad guys bad, he seems fairly consistent in terms of the color he puts in action PMs. I don’t think you have the luxury of withholding information any more… is there anything about your role to indicate why “Good Ash” would have a dream about “Bad Ash” concurrently with your giving Cookies a dream, that doesn’t involve you being, in fact, Bad Ash? > > Or would you care to speculate that Cookies is lying? I said that I induced the nightmare, I was given no information about what the nightmare would ential. In fact, just for the sake of it, here’s a quote from my PM explaining the power I used: [QUOTE=storyteller0910] **4.** Heart Attack: Induce a dream frightening enough to cause a massive heart attack. [/QUOTE] Also, for the sake of full disclosure, here’s the power I used on **Dotchan** : [QUOTE=storyteller0910] **8.** Dreamreader: I believe you can get me through the ni-hiiiiiiiiiite… Oh, never mind. Some people. With this power, you can witness the dreams (or lack thereof) of a player, and determine his or her status as either vanilla human (boring dreams), nonvanilla human (exciting dreams), or Deadite (no dreams). [/QUOTE] Again, I will not be revealing the power I used the first Night for reasons I’ve already stated. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/155 "2009-01-09T00:59:27Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > You’re misinterpretting my statement. I use “that goes without saying” as an affirmation. That is “Are you town?” and “that goes without saying” is equivalent to saying yes. If I’d said “yes” would I still be getting badgering? I’f you’d done what _every single other player has done in a straightforward manner_, no, you woldn’t be badgered on this point. I’m baffled at how you don’t see this. I understand that you’re saying “it’s equivalent to yes”, and in an informal setting, I’d agree with you. This is not an informal setting. It’s like if you’re on trial for murder, and the judge asks you how you plead. You don’t get to respond, “Well duh, Your Honor.”. > [@](#): > > And if I were scum, WTF is the point of deliberately avoiding that question? Well, if no one called you on it, then you end up not having to commit to a statement that NAF could use against you.. That didn’t work, but it was worth a try. > [@](#): > > No, my interpretation was that “yes” was sufficient. It is clear in the context to anyone that reads that post what the “yes” was in response to, so there is no reason to believe that it was ambiguous in any way. Yes is just as much a true or false there as any other statement I could have made. Again, this is simply wrong. NAF has made it clear that he can only evaluate a single sentence. Remember how he got nothing useful on MillitTheFrail’s statement? This has been discussed at length, and there was a clear push to have everyone state “I am town.” clearly and unambiguously, in order to maximize NAF’s claimed power. You can say that it would be dumb as scum to avoid that, but that’s exactly what you did. It’s not terribly good play for town, either, so where are you going with that? > [@](#): > > Confirmation bias. It could be someone evading, or it could, you know, be that that’s what I expected. You of all people should know better than to necessarily see a single possible motivation and ignore others. Dude, I don’t see a townie motivation for your actions. I really don’t. I’ve gone back and re-read what little you’ve contributed, and all I see from your play is extremely self-serving. > [@](#): > > Quite honestly, I don’t know a damned thing about the Evil One. But based on what you said, I’d guess that would be a good candidate for the Godfather type, no? And if that’s who I was, as you say, knowing you were Ash, why would I target you? Beyond that, if I were the Godfather type, why would I be targetting at all, wouldn’t I be having one of my underlings doing it? And then, how the hell was there another scum kill if I am the Godfather type? Bwahahahaha! What awesomely circular reasoning. “I’f I’m scum, then I sound like a godfather. But Godfathers don’t target people!” So you’re saying that as Godfather, you couldn’t target her? That argument only holds water if you’re actually confessing to be Godfather. Otherwise, it’s meaningless. Happy with my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/156 "2009-01-09T01:04:24Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > This is purely confirmation bias, and it doesn’t even jive with what is going on. There is no need to investigate someone who has made that sort of claim. Why would scum need to verify Ash? Why the hell would a townie false claim Ash? All they’d learn is, hey, you’re a townie, and you didn’t false claim. Big surprise! > > Really, you’re not making a lick of sense now at all. Sorry, I hadn’t read your power role quasi-claim post. To tell the truth, I’m not sure why, but it seems, between your powers and **Diggit** ’s role and the possibility of **Thing Fish** ’s investigation killing both him and **Buffy** , that there are a lot of bizarre little mechanisms and such in this game. We don’t know the terms of your role or win condition or what side you’re on (Town, Deadite, or 3rd party), so forgive my assumption that your reasoning for investigating **Cookies** might have something to do with something we just don’t know. You’ve been very secretive about all this. And I understand why; either way, revelations are a risk. OK, so you’re not an investigator–now you say you tried to kill Ash and it didn’t work. If you’re a townie, why the heck would you try to kill Ash? He’s the good guy, and as you say, why would a townie false claim Ash? Even if you didn’t think **NAF** was going to investigate her that night, was it really a good idea to just kill her? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/157 "2009-01-09T01:04:56Z")
**Unvote NAF** **Vote Hal** I don’t think we should lynch BLaM at this point. I think we should let Naf decide what he wants to do with his plethora of (alleged) confirmation options, and I don’t think he needs to broadcast what he is doing. I’ve gone full circle on BLaM at least 5 times in the past couple of hours, but I’m back to my visceral reaction of giving him the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/158 "2009-01-09T06:10:40Z")
I have been thinking about BlaM a lot of tonight, and I am going to unvote for the moment. I will sleep on it and hopefully have a clarifying thought in the morning. unvote BlaM Before his more full claim I was going to ask BlaM to give us a reason not to lynch him if he was so pissed at us. All he has been doing is giving us reasons to lynch him, and I don’t like that. But his claim makes sense in a complicated Storyteller world sort of way, now that he has explained it more fully. And he has been stupid with his behavior if he is scum. Maybe it’s a ploy, but it’s a damn dangerous one. He knows this group and we have lynched many a player for a lot less. Hell we lynched a claimed cop in one game for I don’t even remember what. The one problem I am having is, I could easily see this sort of thing as a scum power or third party power. The fact that Cookies got a dream that gave us info that may end up helping us is sort of beside the point when considering that. I like designing roles that are double edged when they are powerful, and my guess is that story would too. Right now I want to hear from Dot about any dreams she may have had. I would also like to hear from MHaye in general. As Pede said, no one but me has commented on my analysis of his Chucara vote, and that seems very wrong. Particularly with a player like MHaye, I would expect at least one scum to see if it had any steam and at least talk to me about it. Would anyone like to look into the reactions to my claim? I don’t think I can view them objectively. I am going to take another look at the Chucara lynch. No vote at the moment. I may still end up voting for BlaM, but I need to think about that one more. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/159 "2009-01-09T07:18:28Z")
I’m graduating tomorrow, so there won’t be any more from me until the end of the Day. I’m as sure as I’m going to get on **Blaster Master** , so I’m leaving my vote there. I trust the rest of you enough that you’ll unvote him in the event of something drastically different. I think he’s at least a PFK, if not scum. There’s a reason why that’s all of his role PM he’ll share–not even his role title or alignment, which I can’t see being more helpful to the scum than to us. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155/160 "2009-01-09T12:20:07Z")
I think Blam is trying to get lynched. He lurks for four days, appearing only to help kill off a PFK. Then he turns up with a magic bag (always supsicious), makes a mistake when giving his info (never looks good), obfuscates and evades over making a simple statment (there’s a red flag) and refuses to see what the problem is. I would say he couldn’t look more suspicious if he tried, but I think he is trying. I’m going to stick my neck out a mile wide here and either win much kudos for my percipience or end my days as a laughing-stock: I think Blam is a PFK called Freddie Kruger who has the power to affect people’s dreams and has to be killed by the townspeople to fulfill his win-condition. So I’m not going to vote for him, mainly because that’s what he seems to want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-four/480155.md?page=9)