# Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 19, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854 "2008-12-19T03:11:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/281 "2008-12-25T14:36:33Z")
OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT, DAY END TIME, POST – CHRISTMAS MORNING EDITION **Thing Fish** (4) - total lost, peekercpa, Pleonast, pedescribe **Chucara** (2) - NAF1138, Diggitcamara **Pleonast** (1) - Thing Fish **peekercpa** (1) - Natlaw **CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (1) - bufftabby **Blaster Master** (1) - CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies **Rapier42** (1) – amrussell Dawn will happen moderately promptly at 1:00PM Eastern Standard time on Saturday, December 27. As a reminder, any Night actions, or changes to Night actions already submitted, are absolutely due by 12:45PM EST on Saturday - use 'em or lose 'em, folks. Day One will begin on Saturday at 1:00 and last for three days – until Tuesday the 30th at 1:00PM. From there, we will begin our standard schedule of three days/two days for Day/Night. peeker, I have not counted your unvote for Thing Fish or any other action that may have happened off board, since I have to leave here in twenty minutes and don’t really have time to look over there. Consider the vote count above definitive. Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it, and Happy Day-That-You-Almost-Surely-Have-Off-Work to everyone else! - Frank ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/282 "2008-12-25T14:48:07Z")
And all I want for Christmas is a fluff post! Merry (religious) Christmas! Merry (secular) Christmas! Merry assorted-other-traditions-about-which-i-know-relatively-nothing! Glaedelig Jul, **totallost** and **Chucara**! **peeker** , for the love of Og, come play on FB! We will fluff their faces off. Between you, **totallost** , and me, those FBers are gonna be washing fluff off their faces for weeks. And I got you a white sweater. Just don’t look at it in direct light. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/283 "2008-12-25T15:56:16Z")
Woooooo Fliiiiiiipin Wooooooo The Missus loved the solitaires, #1 loved the purse, #3 and #4 are geeked about the Wii and components, turkey is smoking (with a rosemary chili powder rub that is to die for). And the freaking overlord of all things that are good got a gold pass to his favorite golf course for an entire year. In the words of a dude that I miss a lot: **Booyah**. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/284 "2008-12-25T17:51:12Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > And all I want for Christmas is a fluff post! > > Merry (religious) Christmas! > Merry (secular) Christmas! > Merry assorted-other-traditions-about-which-i-know-relatively-nothing! > > Glaedelig Jul, **totallost** and **Chucara**! > **peeker** , for the love of Og, come play on FB! We will fluff their faces off. Between you, **totallost** , and me, those FBers are gonna be washing fluff off their faces for weeks. And I got you a white sweater. Just don’t look at it in direct light. Is there a little dot on that there sweater? Because if there is then I have to fuck the cleaning lady. Gadzooks, it’s a circle of life thread. You know under the sea (have fun Mario players) and circle of life dashed with “My Pretty”. Go get 'em Roland. **Peek** Do I really have to do the whole explanation thing, again? \*\*Thing Fish/Almost Human/Chucara/Total Lost/Shaggy/Mighty fucking Mouse somethingoranother, et al[\b]. Yes. **Peek** Can I start simple? **Chorus** No. **peek** In the beginning there was nothing. And Og was bored so he threw out the cosmos. Totally, uninteded there were dinosaurs. I think Barbarella had to fight them. We went to the moon - no cheese. The Italians were irked. I think it started with Capricorn - the atheologist. He had this weird idea that the lights we see at night are really something other than just blips. Ipso fuckto, it bequeathed GW and Cheney. The prophets became nervous because the seals (rooof rooof) were slowly being rendered inconsequential. So we bailed out a bunch of rich folks that are basically parasites on society. Someone’s got to suck the tit, however. And I really didn’t like the band wagon suggestion by **TF** But she/he has explained it away enough for me. **Color=red]Unvote Thing Fish[/color]** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/285 "2008-12-25T19:53:22Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And now, the last entry in my afternoon postravaganza, inspired by **Pleonast’s** statement quoted above: > > _I think I stated earlier why I commented on the slip (whatever his alignment, it’s something the whole Town should know, so that we can better react to it). As to why I voted–it was to apply pressure and to get the attention of other players. And then I withdrew my vote, once I read his explanation. It seemed reasonable. Yeah, he could be a Deadite who talks smooth, but I think it’s not enough to lynch him now._ > > I’m specifically not citing this as part of my case against **Pleonast** , because this sort of thing seems to be too common to be a scumtell, but it annoys me. **special ed** did the same thing with his quickie vote/unvote of me, for instance. > > I don’t like this business of “I voted for him to see his reaction”. In my experience, the reaction you can expect approximately 100% of the time is defensive hostility. I guess some people think their scumdar is finely attuned enough to distinguish Townie defensive hostility from scummy faux-defensive hostility, and maybe they can. My concern is that acceptance of this kind of tactic leads to lack of accountability for votes and makes it easy for scum. > > For instance, I suspect that **Pleo’s** vote, and subsequent unvote on the too-vague-to-be-debated ground that “it seemed reasonable”, _may_ have been motivated by an effort to draw suspicion to **Pedescribe** while avoiding responsibility for doing so. Whether it was or not, the fact that his explanation was widely accepted will encourage scum to do the same sort of thing in the future. > > _splice_ I think the vote to apply pressure is a good Town tactic. Often, anti-town talk or actions gain a comment or two. Without votes, the comments are often ignored as other topics (genuine or not) are born. A vote, however, is much less likely to be ignored. It applies pressure to the person being voted to comment further. In your case, **Thing fish** , you commented and I then I unvoted you. That said, it’s not only a Town-only tactic. It can easily be a Scum (or PFK) tactic as well, seeing if a vote can gain traction while not committing to it fully, but I feel the potential benefit is worth the risk. On a completely different topic, we will have to eventually find a way to finally kill **macey** , since we cannot completely eliminate Scum while he’s still 1/5 alive. Merry Christmas, everyone. My family celebrates on Christmas Eve, so I’m home now, recovering from a most delightful time spent with my family 🙂 And, appropriate seasonal and/or generic greetings to everyone. PS. I encourage everyone to join our facebook group. Here’s the site (you’ll need a facebook account to access it, but you can always create one): [http://www.new.facebook.com/board.php?uid=24652112609#/group.php?gid=24652112609](http://www.new.facebook.com/board.php?uid=24652112609#/group.php?gid=24652112609) Please don’t think the current game, which I’m modding is an indication of our play syle. This game started as the largest we’ve ever tried (33 players) and also started with almost 50% first time players. But, as you’ll see, the games are more fluffy, which can make it noth infuriating and enjoyable 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/286 "2008-12-25T19:54:53Z")
And I say this because **santo** is not playing. Eff me in the butt. **Unvote Thing Fish** for previously stated reasons, ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/287 "2008-12-25T22:53:20Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > PS. I encourage everyone to join our facebook group. Here’s the site (you’ll need a facebook account to access it, but you can always create one): > > [http://www.new.facebook.com/board.php?uid=24652112609#/group.php?gid=24652112609](http://www.new.facebook.com/board.php?uid=24652112609#/group.php?gid=24652112609) > > Please don’t think the current game, which I’m modding is an indication of our play syle. This game started as the largest we’ve ever tried (33 players) and also started with almost 50% first time players. But, as you’ll see, the games are more fluffy, which can make it noth infuriating and enjoyable 🙂 And I’m modding the next one, which will be a small, 16 player deathfest. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/288 "2008-12-26T00:06:55Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You are still very confused–they were not the same idea! I pointed this out earlier. **Rapier** , who I voted for, supported **Chucara** ’s original idea; I supported the modified one. > > **Oh, you’re right. Gee, I forgot to mention that at all. Except, you know, in the very next sentence after the one you quoted (emphasis added) :** > > Me: > \*\*It is true that you came out in favor of a slightly amended version of the idea, \*\* > > \*\ ***TWEET, snipping conveniently to promote a misinterpretation, five yards, loss of down.** > > And I will stand by my original statement about your defense:\*\* > > Nice abstract concepts. Very hard to argue with. No mention whatsoever of why he thought the risk/benefit ratio of the slightly altered version of the idea was so much better than the original that he would pull the turnaround that he did. > > You have now done three scummy things, in my opinion. > > 1. Accusing me of supporting and opposing the same idea, which were in fact two separate ideas. > > **BS.** > 2) Accusing me of driving the lynch train against **pedescribe** when I did no such thing. > > **Already addressed that.** > 3) When confronted with point 2, saying that voting for someone and then back off, is something scum could. Well, it’s something a Townie could do as well. You’ve explained your reasoning more (thank you), but it’s still a poor reason to base a vote. The fact is, I was right: **ped** did slip up, and I was correct in inferring that he was Town. > > **Once more, with feeling: I didn’t base my vote on that.** > > Note also, your first impression to my pointing out the slip: > > **So? I don’t think your pointing out Pedescribe’s slip was in and of itself scummy, and I have nowhere said that I did. I don’t like the fact that you voted for him immediately, but I am willing to chalk that up to a difference in playstyle, and I have nowhere cited that as a reason for my vote on you.** > A couple other responses to you. > > - I did not vote for **ped** to see his reaction. I pointed out his slip to see his reaction. The vote was to encourage a response and attract attention from others. > - Your vote for me had two reasons original. The first involves your confusion about **churcara** ’s ideas. The second was your interpretation of my use of “ignore”. I had already addressed that, as you even admitted, so there’s no reason for me to talk to it. (Actually, that’s kind of scummy, trying to make others think I haven’t addressed that point, when I did before you even brought it up. Count that as a 4th.) > > (This post was composed in pieces over the last 20 some hours, so it’s a little disjointed.) I’m not confused about Chucara’s idea, I’m not convinced that the distinction between the original idea and the modified version constitutes a significant difference, much less significant enough to justify your radical shift in attitude toward it. And you have thus far made no attempt to offer an argument that it does. As for my interpretation of your use of “ignore”, of course you addressed it by denying that you meant it the way I read it. I just don’t happen to find your denial convincing. By that standard, I have already addressed all of my statements that people have cited as reasons to vote for me, so why is your vote still on me? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/289 "2008-12-26T02:33:35Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Oh, you’re right. Gee, I forgot to mention that at all. Except, you know, in the very next sentence after the one you quoted (emphasis added). Yes, that’s the strange thing. You contradict yourself. If you know the ideas are different, why did you say they the same? I was pointing out the part that was false. > [@](#): > > Once more, with feeling: I didn’t base my vote on that. Hmm: > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Will try to get a reread in before Dusk, but I’m still reasonably happy with my vote where it is ( **Pleonast** ), particularly now that we are provisionally assuming that the guy he was trying to drive the wagon on was in fact Town (and yes, we absolutely should make that assumption for the time being, as several people have already explained to **macey** ). Ok, you didn’t base your vote on it, but you certainly added it as a reason to keep voting for me. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I’m not confused about Chucara’s idea, I’m not convinced that the distinction between the original idea and the modified version constitutes a significant difference, much less significant enough to justify your radical shift in attitude toward it. And you have thus far made no attempt to offer an argument that it does. Well, since the ideas are, by a simple reading, not the same, I am working on the assumption that you have the burden of proof. > [@](#): > > As for my interpretation of your use of “ignore”, of course you addressed it by denying that you meant it the way I read it. I just don’t happen to find your denial convincing. By that standard, I have already addressed all of my statements that people have cited as reasons to vote for me, so why is your vote still on me? It’s fine if you’re not convinced, but don’t claim I’ve not addressed it when I did. That’s what I’m complaining about. Having a vote on someone you’re not convinced by is pro-Town. I’ll not complain, even if that vote is on me. It’s your false statements about me that are anti-Town and are why I’m voting for you. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/290 "2008-12-26T02:46:19Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > I don’t think the player pool is big enough to create enough noise to hide in. > > I don’t have experience balancing games, so take these numbers with a grain of salt, just using them for a better example. > > 5 power roles with target > 15 other town > 5 scum > 2 pfk > > On average that means an action is covered by the power role, three townies and one scum. Whenever the scum find out an action, they have a shortlist of four players instead of 22! If the cover guessed wrong, the list is shorter. > Covering for a vigilante would be very risky: pick the scum kill and scum knows you lied (not a power role). > > The target information is useful to the scum right away, but only to town when a scum false claims. And even then they could just claim 50% success rate if they picked a target wrong. > Another way to look at it: we would need to find 5 scum in 22 lying people instead of 7, so it covers scum better than the power roles. Vanillas are distracted by trying to guess power role actions to cover instead of finding scum. This is a good explanation and I don’t see anything wrong about it. However, I’ll point out that it takes more analysis and weighing of factors to determine that **Chucara** ’s second idea is not a net positive for the Town. The first idea is easy to determine, which is why a placed a vote on **Rapier** > [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Let me be clear. If player A accuses player B of being scum, the quality of A’s argument is important in determining whether player B is scum. I just don’t think it is terribly useful in determining if player A is scum. I’m not so sure about this. A Townie who plays perfectly pro-Town cannot have good arguments against them. If enough players play pro-Town, scum will be forced to give poor arguments or bus their own. Of course, that kind of play has eluded us so far. I will agree that a poor argument can be made by both Town and scum. And so can a good argument. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/291 "2008-12-26T03:25:53Z")
Merry Chrismakah to all. Now to find some scum. A look back at Macey part 1. > [@Natlaw](#): > > On preview: > **macey** , now your questions I can see as fishing. You seem to assume masons can talk off board? Looking at the mafia wiki, standard masons only know the other masons. First to point out Macey’s post, but does it fairly mildly. Slight pro-town read > [@brewha](#): > > Oooh that is blatant fishing. What else would you possibly want to find out. If pede is a mason, he is town. > > The way I see it, there’s three options here. > > 1. Pede is a mason. The other masons know this and have said nothing - which is exactly how it should work. > > 2. Pede is scum, and there is no mason faction. If that is true, than the scum were given extra info on who all they were up against, or that is a ballsy move by Pede. > > 3. Pede is scum and the other masons the few people we haven’t heard from yet. > > I think 2. is very unlikely. I hope that Story is not such a gastard mod that he would give the scum that much inside info. And if it were just a straight balls out move, it would be suicide if there were mason faction. > > 1. is possible, but it is only a matter of time before the truth would come out if it were the case. > > 2. is the most likely and what I’m going to believe until I have reason to doubt it. > It sounds to me like you are trying to get more power roles outed. Not very townie of you at all. > > vote Macey First to go right after Macey. I find it highly unlike to be a scum ploy. Strong pro-town read. > [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > Wow. Just wow. \*\*Pede \*\*giving us more information about his role does nothing to help us ascertain whether or not he’s lying, but if he’s telling the truth, it gives the scum a better handle on how to play their game. If he’s lying, he will eventually be caught, but we can’t really take the chance that he’s not lying this early in the game. > > Your insistence on the matter makes me go :dubious:. > > Unvote Jsexton > Vote macey Third vote after Brewha and me. A meaningful vote in moving Macey to a viable lynch option. Earlier then I would expect scum to concede a teammate. Also I would kind of expect a first time teammate of Macey to be gentler. Not as strong as the read on Brewha, but still likely pro-town. > [@Almost\_Human](#): > > **macey** , as I and several other players have already said, out of all the power roles to claim, mason is the most risky one for a scum to pick so for now I’m believing him. > > I don’t see the purpose of trying to find out more about his role for the purposes of confirmation. Or for any other reason actually. Even if it would tell us whether or not power roles have Alpha/Beta status I don’t think it’s in our best interest for that to be public yet. > > If the scum don’t know why tell them? A reasonable position, but note the difference in tone from Hockey’s and the lack of vote. Could be any number of things. Mild pro-scum read. > [@special\_ed](#): > > _bleached_ > > Having played with **macey** before, a very confusing style of play isn’t unusual for him. > > I’ve played 2 games with him where we were both masons, and I both times, he was without a doubt, the scummiest acting player in the game. I think the other FB players might agree with this. I think I’ve also played 2 games with him as Scum (well 1 1/2, I was recruited..and none too pleased about it), but in those games, I obviously wasn’t looking too hard at his posting style. > > That said, He’s not the type to go fishing. He’s more of the type to post odd things in an attempt to confuse Scum when he’s town. > > vote macey Notes the difference yet votes for him anyway. Could easily of said a similar statement, but withheld a vote. Solid pro-town read. > [@amrussell](#): > > For what’s it worth, I’m not seeing the scum motivation for \*\*macey’s \*\* fishing. It looks more to me like someone used to a different mason mechanic adapting to a new one. The fact that he openly admitted he was fishing, and defended it over a number of posts, looks more town in the grip of a Big Idea than scum to me. Our first vocal dissenter. I’m not really sure what having a different mason mechanic has to do with fishing. It still wouldn’t have given him any reason to question a claimed mason. Sure it could be a townie being wrong, but I would expect the scum to at least try to get Macey off the hook, and Amrussell was the first to try. Solid pro-scum read. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I don’t like Macey’s fishing expedition. It’s definitely FOS-worthy. Is suspicious, but doesn’t vote. Neutral read. Next part two and a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Chucara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Chucara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chucara)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/292 "2008-12-26T13:27:01Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I don’t know what to make of \*\*Chucara’s \*\*unvote, but viewing it through the lens of suspicion, one could hypothesize that he risked making a vote he couldn’t defend well in order to save his pal **macey** , and then tried to back away discreetly from it once that failed. Or maybe he just dislikes the votes-automatically-carrying-over mechanism and wanted to start fresh. Or maybe he reread the thread and decided I wasn’t suspicious after all. Maybe he will tell us? I unvoted because I think there is information in the lynch, especially the last one. Since I was going away and didn’t have time to process this information, I unvoted you as I didn’t want to risk being away and having a vote I wasn’t sure I could support. I wouldn’t say I mind the system, but at least for day one, I don’t want to just blindly carry it over. I was not convinced that Macey was scum, and I’m not convinced you are scum either. Perhaps more will follow, I’ll start reading now. ---
**Author:** ![Chucara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Chucara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chucara)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/293 "2008-12-26T13:40:25Z")
Ok, just finished a quick read, the only thing that comes to mind is that I don’t think we should in any way assume that there are no scum in the 9 people who voted for macey. For my internal scorecard, the first few people to vote macey have gained a few townie points, but once the wagon started rolling, I don’t find it unlikely that a scum or two might have jumped it to gain town cred. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/294 "2008-12-26T16:11:47Z")
> [@dotchan](#): > > **amrussel** , the reason Thing Fish fell under suspicion was to suggest that the lynch pool was only two candidates (in fact, his words were remarkably similar to yours :dubious: ), but don’t take our word for it, read Day One for yourself. I find this post a little smudgy: 1. What exactly did I say that was so similar to the highly suspicious thing said by the vote leader? A quote would be nice, because it feels like you’re trying to throw me into the same boat without offering any evidence. 2. Again, if you want to accuse me of skimming, you can come right out and say so. I wanted the people voting for Thing Fish to restate the case because a) carry-over votes should come with a carry-over case; b) townie voters are the best people to summarise the case and c) any scum voters will be reluctant or less able to give a neat précis because their reasoning is by definition spurious. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/295 "2008-12-26T16:18:33Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Well, one of us is misreading Chuckie, then. Here’s the original post again, just for reference: > > I parse this as follows: “_Right, bad (idea1). What about (idea2)? Might not not work because of (problem1) - of course, we could get around that with (workaround1). What do you guys think?_” **unvote Rapier42** I see where you were coming from. I didn’t read **Chucara** ’s post in quite the same way (specifically, I didn/don’t see much of a workaround) but given that difference I can see why you would think **Natlaw** ’s edit was misleading. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/296 "2008-12-26T16:36:04Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > I wanted the people voting for Thing Fish to restate the case because a) carry-over votes should come with a carry-over case; b) townie voters are the best people to summarise the case and c) any scum voters will be reluctant or less able to give a neat précis because their reasoning is by definition spurious. How do you reconcile this in the case of a “slip”? They’re happening every 5 minutes these days. A slip is the 800 lb gorilla in the room and a slip alone can be easily 80% of the basis for any given individual’s vote, with the other 20% being that individual’s unique mix of reason/luck/bias. The scum will be voting for that person, townies will be voting for that person. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/297 "2008-12-26T16:48:05Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > How do you reconcile this in the case of a “slip”? They’re happening every 5 minutes these days. A slip is the 800 lb gorilla in the room and a slip alone can be easily 80% of the basis for any given individual’s vote, with the other 20% being that individual’s unique mix of reason/luck/bias. The scum will be voting for that person, townies will be voting for that person. Hopefully, we’ve all learned an important lesson about going after slips. And although it may seem like they happen every five minutes, I still think most cases are based on posting or voting analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/298 "2008-12-26T20:10:40Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Yes…it IS kinda weird. :dubious: > > I want to see where the macey train is rolling. So I don’t think I will vote for him right now. Instead: > vote Chucara > > for fishing also, but being more subtle about it. > [@NAF1138](#): > > More or less. The one thing that gives me pause is how blatent Macey was. It was a coin toss, but Macey’s bluntness put Chucara over the top for me. A townie Naf could conceivably come to this conclusion. The thing is, this is exactly how I would expect a scummy Naf would act. This I see A but how bout B tactic is a very effective scum strategy, one used often in SDMB. It serves a few useful purposes. It allows the subject to be pushed off of Macey, and on to Chucara. It connects the two of them for if Macey is scum who fishing, then surely Chucara should be a prime suspect for his fishing attempt. Or if Chucara is lynched and comes up town anyargument against Macey would be similarly discounted. Lastly,it allows Naf to state a suspicion of Maey, while actively working to prevent his lynch. So, while it is possible for a townie to find subtlely to be a sign of scumminess, I find this much more likely to be a scum ploy. Strong scum read. And if I’m right about Naf, I would doubt that Chucara is scum. > [@dotchan](#): > > **macey’s** posts read, on first blush, like a paranoid newbie, but in voicing opinions on pedescribe’s reaction to his PM says something to the effect of “you should know better”. Compared to that, the insistence for more information does seem very scummy, especially in light of storyteller’s publishing of the Vanilla PMs. (And one would think that Story made it so we can’t use special phrases in the PMs as a kind of handshake.) In light of this, vote Macey . Dotchan comes in and attacks Macey off the bat. Mild pro-town read. > [@Pleonast](#): > > **macey** ’s questions of **ped** are anti-Town, but I think it reflects the different expectations of the Facebook play group. It’s a null tell. I’m mildly suspicious of the players who’ve jumped on him for only that. Disagrees with the Macey lynch and threatens the attackers. Signs show scum, but Pleo’s other actions in this game have me pointing in the other direction. We will put him at neutral. > [@JSexton](#): > > This post and your others are pretty bad. I see a former mason buddy saying that you can be all over the place as town, but it’s still worth a unvote Pleonast, vote macey. We are starting to get to the point where scum will give up and jump aboard. Very slight pro-town read. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I’m finding it difficult to imagine a viable scum benefit for **macey’s** play, assuming for the moment that he is scum. > > On one hand is a possible fishing expedition that _might_ pay off, on the other hand is a gambit that would result in the amount of votes that he’s getting 9 times out of 10. What I mean is, in 9 games out of 10, if someone pushes a claimed Mason for more information on Day 1, I think the mob would string him/her up for all of the reasons that have already been stated. > > Is the potential fishing pay-off really worth the risk? > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Yes, yes, but what it seems to be boiling down to now is that the “scum would never do that” debate is now a null tell, and that seems to be the latest evolution in these games. **NAF** can be found quoted in many games saying something to the effect of, “Don’t just vote against an idea that you don’t agree with or don’t like, it is much better to tease out those things that also give the scum an advantage.” > > In this case there is at least a logical scum pay-off: catching power-role fish based on reactions to the push for **pede** to divulge more details. I get that. But I’ve seen many a townie have his/her neck stretched when the mob tries to make an example out of someone based on principle. Could a townie make this argument. That is certainly one possibility. However, once again, this is what I would expect scum to do. Make an argument that sounds logical, but is meant to steer townies away from a specific action. When you can’t defend the player, attack the idea. There is no fool proof way of finding scum, so every idea has false positives. Definite pro-scum read. > [@Natlaw](#): > > - **macey** ’s fishing is definitely pro-scum: the information asked is useless to confirm a mason, unless you are one. But a masons doesn’t need to confirm a mason! > I have no problem with him being lynch leader. Points suspicion, but votes elsewhere. Leans mildly pro-scum. > [@Chucara](#): > > macey: Has been accused of fishing. While it could surely be interpreted as that, I’m not sure if I can fully reach the conclusion of a fishing attempt. I might be coloured some of you seem to think I’m fishing. Thinks Macey might not fishing? I really have no idea what to make out of this one. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > FTR, I am fine with the **macey** lynch. I doubt he’s scum, but as Hawkeye said above, if we let Town newbies get away with this stuff, the scum will be doing it next. Kind of an odd stance, but I don’t think a scum would be that direct in stating something they knew was wrong. Maybe a PFK? > [@Rapier42](#): > > In other news, I’m going to jump on the Macey bandwagon. The questioning of Ped does look like fishing, his defence of “but he could be lying” makes no sense at all, and I understand he’s an experienced player on Facebook. > > Vote Macey > [@Millit\_the\_Frail](#): > > Well, shucks. I think that, in my absence, the town is on to something for real. That was suspicious as hell, **macey**. > > Vote macey Late votes could be either side. Neutral read. So that leaves three likely suspects in Naf, Cookies, and AmRussell, while Brewha, Hockey, and Special Ed are probably pro-town. Or at least scum.. I’m going to go ahead and vote Cookies , but I’m okay voting for any of the three. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/299 "2008-12-26T21:06:32Z")
**Pedescribe,** , did you notice my post 251 where I pointed out that I never voted for you? Does that make a difference in your decision to vote for me? And yes, I agree with you, the bit of your PM you quoted does seem to strongly suggest that we have PFKs. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854/300 "2008-12-26T21:19:26Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Late votes could be either side. Neutral read. > > So that leaves three likely suspects in Naf, Cookies, and AmRussell, while Brewha, Hockey, and Special Ed are probably pro-town. Or at least scum.. > > I’m going to go ahead and vote Cookies , but I’m okay voting for any of the three. bleached Why not vote for me Hawk? If I was you I would be voting for me. Of the arguments you presented, the one against me is the strongest, your case against Cookies is actually fairly weak. So why her over me or even AmRussell, both of us have stronger cases against us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-evil-dead-day-night-one/477854.md?page=16)