# Mafia - Game in progress \[Edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635 "2013-01-09T16:03:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/281 "2013-01-23T18:41:36Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Ah, but the Plan is just playing mafia, right Cookies? > > So, you think his vote is a pile of crap because he’s playing mafia? > > Since when have day one votes \*\*not \*\*been pile of crap votes? > > It’s a bit odd to be outraged by ordinary mafia behavior, say the plan is ordinary mafia play, and blame the plan for things that exist absent the plan. > > It’s like saying things are no different, therefore, it’s different and worse. I blame the plan. I’m not outraged. Yes, Day 1 will be ripe with crappy votes, and I’ve been poking holes in crappy votes, regardless of what Day they occur on, long before you typed up your plan. I quoted wombat’s vote because it is quite relevant to my thesis that as benign as its intentions may or may not be, punishing or suspecting people because they may not adhere to some minor detail sets us up for missing the forest for the trees. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/282 "2013-01-23T18:43:35Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > The Rules: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15912694&postcount=67](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15912694&postcount=67) > Players: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15912708&postcount=68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15912708&postcount=68) > The Barn: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15922630&postcount=107](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15922630&postcount=107) > Sample PM: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15922706&postcount=108](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15922706&postcount=108) > Night 0: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15923035&postcount=118](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15923035&postcount=118) > Day 1: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15925639&postcount=156](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15925639&postcount=156) > The Pizza recipe: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15927887&postcount=215](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15927887&postcount=215) > > Doesn’t everyone keep notes like this? In a one thread game, I find it essential. I would really keep notes like that… if I knew how to. ---
**Author:** ![wombat99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b782af/32.png) [@wombat99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wombat99)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/283 "2013-01-23T18:50:48Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I’m not outraged. Yes, Day 1 will be ripe with crappy votes, and I’ve been poking holes in crappy votes, regardless of what Day they occur on, long before you typed up your plan. I quoted wombat’s vote because it is quite relevant to my thesis that as benign as its intentions may or may not be, punishing or suspecting people because they may not adhere to some minor detail sets us up for missing the forest for the trees. Mostly you seem to want to poke holes in _my_ crappy vote. 🙂 FWIW, I’m not interested in punishing \*\*Mahaloth \*\*or anyone else for their play; follow the Plan or don’t follow the Plan. I’m just putting my vote and thoughts out there. ---
**Author:** ![orthohedron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ba8739/32.png) [@orthohedron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orthohedron)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/284 "2013-01-23T19:08:51Z")
I suspect those people who at this early stage in the game try to justify votes as anything other than arbitrary guesses on day one may be up to something. Therefore I \*\* vote wombat99\*\*. amidoinitrite ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/285 "2013-01-23T19:17:35Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > But then again many of my “ insightful” posts are used as coasters so it may of course matter not This is absolutely not true. I watch you carefully specifically because I think you’re a smart, insightful player. It’s why I might over-parse your words from time to time, and also why you drew an early vote from me. Lynching you was one of the silliest things the players did in our last (still-ongoing) game. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/286 "2013-01-23T19:18:30Z")
> [@wombat99](#): > > Mostly you seem to want to poke holes in _my_ crappy vote. I just woke up. There is plenty of poking to go around, but I don’t plan on being a busy bee landing on every vote that is made. I poke where I feel poking is needed, and not always to implicate people. Most of the time I just poke at what I see as behavior that is risky for Town. Sometimes that blooms into suspicion, but certainly not always. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/287 "2013-01-23T19:27:22Z")
I feel like discussion of “The Plan” is creating a lot more arguing than cohesion right now. Maybe we should table it and revisit it on Day 2 or Day 3, when we actually have some data to inform our voting. Right now all we’re doing is creating an unnecessary framework by which our **completely arbitrary** votes are scrutinized. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/288 "2013-01-23T19:42:11Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > \*\* Pleo \*\* OMGUS votes are valid in the sense they are often used by a Town Player that Can’t believe they are being voted on the grounds that the voter claims > > How many times have every one of us been voted by someone for what the voter touted as an obvious Scum trait when we were cleaner than angels underwear Incredulousness is not a good reason for a vote. Why should a player’s failure to accept a vote convince anyone else to change their vote? We give reasons for votes so that others can see our motivations and to change others’ minds. Being wrong is not a scum tell. Players are honestly wrong all the time, regardless of alignment. The key to finding scum is motivation, not correctness. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > We have different definitions of OMGUS then, because I make what I consider them to be often against Scum as Town. “Don’t believe him! I’m being framed!” When you don’t have compelling evidence to convince anyone else that is what is going on. I don’t think people should be encouraged to just roll over when they’re in that position. That is when you have to get scrappy. Further, even when it is Town vs Town someone was wrong first, and any chance we have of adjusting course from wrong to not being wrong without relying on a flip to make that adjustment, all the better. Probably. Players should defend themselves. Pointing out errors in others’ votes on oneself is pro-town. Finding scummy motivation in others’ votes on oneself is pro-town. Voting because of that motivation is pro-town. Voting for someone who is voting for you for no good reason other than their vote on you is not pro-town. > [@orthohedron](#): > > I suspect those people who at this early stage in the game try to justify votes as anything other than arbitrary guesses on day one may be up to something. Therefore I **vote wombat99**. amidoinitrite (bleached vote) Hmm, **orthohedron** justified their vote as more than an arbitrary guess. And so early in the game, too. 😛 I think **ortho** ’s vote is townie motivated, but it is a poorly thought-through vote. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/289 "2013-01-23T19:44:05Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I think there should be a system and an order to things, but this isn’t parliamentary procedure bound by Roberts Rules of Order. If someone actually comes out and (as an example) says “look everyone, I’m scum!” During phase four, we don’t need to back everything up and restart the process. Just do what we normally do: vote for the scum. Yes, this is basically what I’m saying. The Plan is nothing more than a breakdown of good Mafia play… HOWEVER… good Mafia play is not something that could or should be so tightly controlled. Not every player is going to be around every single day. What if I am out of town for 2 days and miss the time when I’m supposed to Rebut a case against me? My point is that we can all do all of these things within our own individual time frame and move backwards and forwards through the process as the situation arises. I will admit, though, that in general I am not fond of voting to ‘provoke a reaction’. I think the rationale for such votes is often so ridiculous as to be more confusing that any response from the votee. And this Plan just seems like a way to force everyone to make Poke Votes at the beginning of every Day. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > And speaking of USCDiver, I’d like to nominate him as well. Total gut feel for this post regarding Chucara. Despite my earlier joke before the game started, I don’t generally believe skimming is a scum tell. It’s something iIhavent seen much success from. I do find people who point out “slips” that aren’t actually slips are scummy, and this is semi-like that. Kinda. Or it’s just a strategy disagreement between him and I. For Day 1, lets say that puts Diver at 51% too. Well skimming is neither here not there as far as I’m concerned, but you have to admit that the post in question by **Chucura** pretty much indicated she hadn’t even read the thread (much less skimmed) as her point was made by others multiple times in the minutes/hours prior to her posting. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Also, I’d like to add a second (third?) to Storyteller’s nomination. storyteller nominated someone?! I’ll definitely go with that guy! > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I feel like discussion of “The Plan” is creating a lot more arguing than cohesion right now. Maybe we should table it and revisit it on Day 2 or Day 3, when we actually have some data to inform our voting. > > Right now all we’re doing is creating an unnecessary framework by which our **completely arbitrary** votes are scrutinized. No no no! I don’t think the Plan has much utility and I’m not planning on following **pizza** around like a puppy dog, but anything which generates discussion is a Good Thing! Actually the fact that you’re trying to stifle said discussion is kinda suspicious. **Vote Johnny Bravo** ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/290 "2013-01-23T19:45:12Z")
Aw man. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/291 "2013-01-23T19:49:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I feel like discussion of “The Plan” is creating a lot more arguing than cohesion right now. Maybe we should table it and revisit it on Day 2 or Day 3, when we actually have some data to inform our voting. > > Right now all we’re doing is creating an unnecessary framework by which our **completely arbitrary** votes are scrutinized. Would you care to give another topic for discussion on this first of Days? If it’s a good one maybe even the lurkers will have an opinion ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/292 "2013-01-23T19:52:06Z")
[OOG] So I’m scheduled to be admitted to the hospital a couple of times over the next 6 weeks for a stem cell transplant. I anticipate a bunch of time sitting around my house or in the hospital watching TV and surfing the internet while waiting for my bone marrow to start working properly. But there is a chance I could be Genuinely Sick and unable to participate. Hopefully I’ll be fine, but if it becomes apparent I won’t be able to continue, I may have to ask for a sub. [/OOG] ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/293 "2013-01-23T19:52:33Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This is absolutely not true. I watch you carefully specifically because I think you’re a smart, insightful player. It’s why I might over-parse your words from time to time, and also why you drew an early vote from me. > > Lynching you was one of the silliest things the players did in our last (still-ongoing) game. I will take that as a compliment ( thank you) but I might lynch you later ( bad joke- previously jokes have slain me) ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/294 "2013-01-23T19:55:00Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > [OOG] > So I’m scheduled to be admitted to the hospital a couple of times over the next 6 weeks for a stem cell transplant. I anticipate a bunch of time sitting around my house or in the hospital watching TV and surfing the internet while waiting for my bone marrow to start working properly. But there is a chance I could be Genuinely Sick and unable to participate. Hopefully I’ll be fine, but if it becomes apparent I won’t be able to continue, I may have to ask for a sub. > [/OOG] \*\* Damn IT get better fast- please \*\* ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/295 "2013-01-23T19:57:29Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > [OOG] > So I’m scheduled to be admitted to the hospital a couple of times over the next 6 weeks for a stem cell transplant. I anticipate a bunch of time sitting around my house or in the hospital watching TV and surfing the internet while waiting for my bone marrow to start working properly. But there is a chance I could be Genuinely Sick and unable to participate. Hopefully I’ll be fine, but if it becomes apparent I won’t be able to continue, I may have to ask for a sub. > [/OOG] [OOG]Best of luck, Diver, and a quick recovery. Is it rude to be academically fascinated by your procedure and curious as to the details?[/OOG] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/296 "2013-01-23T20:00:36Z")
[OOG]So you vote me for a lynching and then immediately tell everyone that you’re going through a procedure, robbing me even of the opportunity for outrage? That, sir, is a JERK MOVE. Please get better soon. :)[/OOG] ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/297 "2013-01-23T20:02:46Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > [OOG]Best of luck, Diver, and a quick recovery. Is it rude to be academically fascinated by your procedure and curious as to the details?[/OOG] Maybe I’ll start an “Ask the…” thread > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > [OOG]So you vote me for a lynching and then immediately tell everyone that you’re going through a procedure, robbing me even of the opportunity for outrage? That, sir, is a JERK MOVE.[/OOG] Yeah, that was the idea! ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/298 "2013-01-23T20:17:03Z")
I’m feeling a bit uneasy about the “Pizza Plan”…or at least the way it’s being implemented. It seems that we’ve had more than the usual number of early votes, most of them prefaced by a ‘nomination’. I feel that some people may be taking advantage of the ‘system’ to place unwarranted votes, because “hey, we’re just following Pizza’s plan…” I realize that early Day 1 votes aren’t set in stone, but they are part of the ‘permanent record’, and this seems to give people one more way to place a vote that can later be ‘explained away’ instead of having to be justified. I don’t think that Pizza necessarily intended it this way; he did propose this plan in the aftermath of another game, and before PMs went out for this one, so it’s not a ‘Scummy move’ on his part…but I do think it provides an extra avenue for Scum to keep under the radar. In a game where the voting record is already going to be more difficult to analyze due to multi-voting, I don’t think it’s helping to add another layer of ‘rules’ to the game. On the other hand, maybe I’m just being an old stick-in-the-mud who’s afraid to embrace change. i suppose time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/299 "2013-01-23T20:17:14Z")
I apparently have not fully understood pizza’s plan. Let me re-read it(again) and try again. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/300 "2013-01-23T20:21:20Z")
To get my ball rolling \*\* Vote Chucara \*\* For chiming in on a current point of discussion without having the background of what had already been discussed on the subject [subtext] posting “Hello I’m here- what’s the haps”- is acceptable… posting “ this is my opinion on subject A “ \* while disregarding what had already been said about subject A \* is suspect to me [/subtext] and no vote tags here – loverly [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=16)