# Mafia - Game in progress \[Edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635 "2013-01-09T16:03:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/581 "2013-01-29T02:29:39Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > NETA: actually, that came out wrong, and doesn’t sound how I meant it. I appreciate you explaining your votes. I’d additionally like to see your thoughts on the lynch leaders. No problem, but I appreciate your appreciation. 🙂 But I thought ATPG was one of the lynch leaders? Or do you mean the other ones as well? So that would be **Chucara** and **RyJae**? Okay, it’s easy enough to do since unlike ATPG, the others don’t have that many posts. As for **RyJae** , it seems as if s/he’s getting dinged mostly for this first post, [187](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15926116&postcount=187): > [@RyJae](#): > > Skimming is a scum tell but I skim a lot so I don’t really believe that. Every game I have played as vanilla town I skimmed quite a bit. Paid much closer attention when the role was a power role or scum/independent. I may be reading this wrong, or trying to put too good a face on it, but when I read this, I assumed that the first line was _not_ **RyJae** claiming “Skimming as a scum tell” as a _fact_, but that it’s a “fact” that people usually state as a truism. BUT s/he didn’t believe it, because in fact, skimming was something **RyJae** does more as vanilla town than as power role or scum/independent. S/he goes on to say that s/he was initially falling for the whole “Skimming = scum” to the point where even **Babale** ’s apparent slip made **RyJae** ’s spideysense tingle, but then remembered, “wait, no, that’s something _I_ do when I’m vanilla town. Stop believing cliches when you know yourself they’re false, self!” So I don’t see that as a slip the way others have. Again, I may just be parsing this differently from the rest of the **RyJae** voters. Thus I’m ignoring that particular argument. Then there’s **ATPG** ’s argument against **RyJae** from [505](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15943168&postcount=505), which basically boils down to **RyJae** being nervous about voting to lynch on Day 1 because we have so little info that it’s likely we’ll hit a townie rather than scum, so **RyJae** is anti-Town because s/he cares too much about killing a townie. Well, this may be a good point. I admit myself I _hate_ D1 with a passion, though; it’s so scattershot and self-referential and meta and round-and-round-the-mulberry-bush-we-go where people overanalyze the absolute minutiae in order to justify their votes. (Which is kinda why “pancakes” is such a great answer, because that really does describe why most people are voting on D1. :D) I really don’t know if my dislike of this is due to being a relative newbie and thus not having a taste for the jugular that other players do, and so even a 'nilla townie’s life is precious to me because I haven’t really _owned_ the fact that vanillas are basically expendable… at least, as much as _anyone_ is in this game who isn’t scum. Since I don’t know if **RyJae** is like me, it’s hard for me to justify voting for someone who feels the same way I do. If I knew more about **RyJae** ’s history–yes, here’s where knowing someone’s history _is_ useful–I might be able to make this judgment call. But I’d just find it hypocritical to ding him/her for feeling as I do. Ultimately, the question is, is it anti-Town to advocate lynching _nobody_ on D1? Possibly. Obviously it _does_ put us at a disadvantage because it’s sure as hell that the Werewolves _will_ attack at Night and they certainly won’t have any bleedin’ debate or ethical conundrum about doing so. So lynching someone on D1 is the only chance we have of a level playing field, even if it’s purely by chance if we hit a scum on the first try, and even if we do risk hitting a vanilla or, much worse, a power role. I guess all this is me saying… I just don’t know. I can understand why people are voting for **RyJae** , but I’m not entirely sure why so _many_ are. There just isn’t enough _there_ there. Maybe I empathize too much, I dunno. I don’t think there’s any sign of a wagoning, but I think there are better candidates and better arguments than the ones for **RyJae**. OTOH, if s/he’s scum, so be it, and yay. I will say that if **RyJae** _is_ scum and gets lynched, I really think it’s more chance than skill that led this particular scum up to the gallows. Although I _am_ tempted to vote for **RyJae** for continually mangling my name as “chloie.” Now _that_ is a total scum tell. Okay, so that leaves **Chucara** , right? Well… it seems that first people got on the case because **Chucara** either skimmed or didn’t quite grok the idea behind the Barn. Honestly? I can’t dun him/her for that; _I_ don’t fully grok the idea behind the Barn. (I realize that I’m setting a very low standard here if I’m judging everybody by how _I_ play, but still, barring my knowledge of _their_ style, it’s all I can do.) And skimming, as mentioned above in the **RyJae** stuff above, really doesn’t feel like a scum tell even if that’s what Received Opinion says. The sole time I was Scum, I was _super-analyzing_ everyone’s posts, even though I appeared not to, because I absolutely needed to keep track of everything and everybody. Then again, I was playing alone, and I didn’t have a team of Scum to back me up, so maybe this is a bad precedent to use. Just don’t know. Next people leapt on **Chucara** for the whole “pancakes” deal. I’m sorry, but even if it causes people to wrap the rope around my neck and swing me up, I cannot vote a person who came up with the “pancakes” gambit. It’s too awesome. I realize this is a craptastic reason to trust anyone, but well, it’s the best I’ve got on D1. More seriously, “pancakes” is obviously code for “an inkling but barely a rationalized one, or in other words, the same reason for voting as everyone else on D1.” That’s as good as we’ve got today (except my hugely rational voting, that is! :D). I think some of jumped on the fact that **Chucara** hasn’t removed the vote on **orthohedron** despite not having a reason for it. I can’t argue with that. But if s/he truly thinks one random vote is as good as another on D1, then why should **Chucara** remove the vote? Admittedly s/he did remove the vote on **Babale** , but this unvote was explained as occuring due to **Babale** really _feeling_ like Town. If **Chucara** doesn’t have that kind of instinct for **ortho** , then why remove the vote? I can’t mistrust a guy or gal for voting randomly on D1. It’s part of what D1 is, and unlike many other votes, **Chucara** ’s vote is _honest_ about its randomness. Annnnnd there you have it. Those are my thoughts on those two folks. Is there someone else I should be considering so far? Since I last posted, to be honest **ATPG** is pinging me _more_ lately, because the aggressive defensiveness feels off to me. I admit I am way less invested in this game than ATPG is, but since he’s claiming vanilla townie I don’t see why he’s getting this outraged at being in first or second place. Vanillas are redshirts. It’s part of the contract: redshirts who stand too close to that comm panel during a battle with the Romulans _will_ get fried and die, unloved and unmourned, and frankly unnamed. So suck it up and accept your fate. It’s what I’d do. In my first and second games I was outraged. By now? I know what’s best for Town, and again, lynching a vanilla isn’t great but it’s the better option of lynching a power role. If, in fact, you _are_ vanilla town. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/582 "2013-01-29T02:35:22Z")
I don’t get the case on pizza at all. Pizza didn’t slip anything and I think his plan is no indicator of scum or town. I think he was going to try to implement the plan in this game not matter what he would be. At least once we found out we were getting a super long Day 1. I have zero read on him either way, so not vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/583 "2013-01-29T04:08:35Z")
Massively snipped and bolding mine: > [@Chucara](#): > > [snip]I will leave my vote on Orthohedron as my gut tells me he is slightly more likely than average to be scum. If you prefer, I vote him because of ‘syrup’, that’s why. Can’t have pancakes without syrup. Or at the very least jam.[snip] > > - Right now - if we weren’t trying out Pizza’s plan ™. I’d vote those people with TL;DR > [snip] > **My best bet is Ortho.** , but on D1, it stays a guess. > [@Chucara](#): > > [snip]Of the top three candiates,\*\* RyJae is the only one I think has a chance of being scum.\*\* > [@Chucara](#): > > [snip] > Maybe I’m simply not getting why town is heading where we are heading right now. **Glod, I don’t even think RyJae is particularly scummy.** > Meh. This is Day One, anything goes, I suppose. Yep, I am sticking with my vote for Chacura. This looks an awful like scum struggling to find another target, any target. He is defending Pizza with both barrels. A lot of wine there…it could be to also save his scum buddy Pizza, or it could be to take Pizza down with him. OMGUS vote:\*\* vote: Guiri\*\* for voting me and for stalking Choie. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chucara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Chucara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chucara)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/584 "2013-01-29T13:43:47Z")
**TexCat** : Please reread my posts. There are no inconsistencies in them. - I know I am town - I think Pizza is town - I have no lean on RyJae (“I don’t think he is particularly scummy”, yet I think he is more likely to be scum than myself and Pizza) - Ortho is not one of the top three candidates. I’d prefer not to lynch myself or Pizza, and have voted accordingly. If pizza is scum, I will wear a hat and stand in a corner. I can promise you that if I were scum and pizza was on the block, I would not rush to his defense in this manner. But I agree, this Chacura guy sounds scummy 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/585 "2013-01-29T16:31:35Z")
So, starting with my question to **pizza** based on their interesting statement: > [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > > > Waiting until tomorrow to begin lynching is the same thing as beginning the game with (at least) two less townies, but the same amount of scums. > > Whence comes “(at least) two less townies”? > > Unless I missed something in the rules, we have no information about the number of players who are likely to be killed at Night. **pizza** ’s comment looks like a privileged information slip. > **vote Askthepizzaguy** > for a privileged information slip. We got this response: > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Lynch me, I’m a townie. > Mafia typically have a nightkill. > Seriously, this is your idea of a slip? > Laughable. I really don’t mind being lynched if this is the thinking quality I’ll have to endure. And then **Astral** points out: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Your derision is unfounded. You specifically said **if we didn’t lynch anyone,** there would be two dead townies tomorrow. > > You may have misspoke, but acting like Pleonast is an idiot is uncalled for. We get this response: > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > A \*player \*might not choose to vote to lynch someone, but if it’s not unanimous there will still be a lynch. A no lynch day only works if absolutely no one votes. Therefore what do we discuss for a week? There’s no voting history. There are no deaths. Short of mass claiming I don’t see the point. > > I see however your point. The derision was uncalled for in this case. Probably this case alone, but in this case, yes. In summary, **pizza** says that if we do not lynch a player ToDay, we should expect two dead townies ToMorrow. Then, when questioned about, explains why we should expect one dead townie and insults me. And when called on that, retracts the insult, but still no explanation of where the second dead townie comes from. **pizza** , you have some stupid votes\* on you. But when someone points out what looks like a privileged information slip, instead of giving a plausible reason why a townie might say that, you react very differently. Your evasiveness does not seem townie to me. \*Let’s look at the votes on **pizza** **choie** (312): getting “scum vibes” **texcat** (334): voting because of your “disturbance in the force” vote **Silver Jan** (351): voting because of your “no reason at all” vote **Johnny Bravo** (392): says your “pinging scummish” **RyJae** (508): for a “vote on scum chance” **Astral Rejection** (514): has a list of reasons supporting a “moderate scum lean” **orthohedron** (524): because you’re “trying to deflect the heat” **USCDiver** (544): because your “post is so much fucking horseshit” **Dizzymrslizzy** (546): because you “didn’t answer my question” **Pleonast** (557): because of an apparent PIS The votes by **choie** , **Johnny** and **RyJae** are weak and barely defensible. Hunches are valid reasons for votes, but not very useful to anyone. It’s very easy for scum to justify a vote this way. The votes by **tex** and **Jan** are also good because it’s useful to call players on weak votes. **Astral** has the best vote on you. **USC** ’s vote seems to be because of a difference in play style. This is a poor vote. **ortho** ’s vote looks like an OMGUS. This is a poor vote. The votes by **lizzy** and **Pleo** are because of your poor responses to our questions. Yeah, you don’t have to answer any question, but we don’t have to unvote you if we don’t like your responses. These are good votes. I doubt you can change the minds (and votes) of some players, but others might. Throwing insults at players that ask you questions is probably not a good way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/586 "2013-01-29T16:36:28Z")
**Guiri** , seeing as you have voted for **choie** , **Texcat** and myself for no other reason than a couple of comments posted that didn’t actually say much, if one of us flip Town would that clear all of us? Other people have had a lot more to say to each other and you don’t jump all over them. Surely if I was scum then I could have asked Texcat a question on the scum board? Your votes really don’t make any sense to me. The link is tenuous at best and I am starting to think you look very scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/587 "2013-01-29T16:52:32Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > The link is tenuous at best and I am starting to think you look very scummy. Jan, I’m a bit suspicious of how defensive you are when you’re in exactly zero lynch danger. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/588 "2013-01-29T17:15:58Z")
URL=[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15947281&postcount=554](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15947281&postcount=554)] From this post > [@](#): > > TL;DR > > Please pick another target than ATPG. We are by my persuasion (if not, take that as a compliment, Pizza) both town. At least try to get some info by finding a slightly more likely scum candidate. > > My best bet is Ortho., but on D1, it stays a guess. Can someone tell me what the TL;DR represents? Your ‘defense’? of \*\* Pizza \*\* is puzzling me here- It’s Day1 you would not have an investigation yet- are you claiming Masonry? Or are you posting a gut feeling without qualifying it as such? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/589 "2013-01-29T17:16:55Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > **Guiri** , seeing as you have voted for **choie** , **Texcat** and myself for no other reason than a couple of comments posted that didn’t actually say much, if one of us flip Town would that clear all of us? What an odd question. I can’t imagine that you would expect \*\*Guiri \*\*to answer “yes” to this question, so why did you bother to ask it? And to echo **Astral** , why are you so worked up about it? Your chance of being lynched Today is only marginally more than zero (inasmuch as the Day isn’t over yet). Why do you care so much about a single vote? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/590 "2013-01-29T17:31:50Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > What an odd question. I can’t imagine that you would expect \*\*Guiri \*\*to answer “yes” to this question, so why did you bother to ask it? > > And to echo **Astral** , why are you so worked up about it? Your chance of being lynched Today is only marginally more than zero (inasmuch as the Day isn’t over yet). Why do you care so much about a single vote? I’m not worked up about it, **Guiri** has just made a case out of thin air. I wouldn’t expect **Guiri** to answer yes, it was rhetorical but he has lumped the 3 of us together as scum. BTW, what’s wrong with trying to defend my actions and really not liking a vote on me? Don’t answer, that was rhetorical too. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/591 "2013-01-29T17:40:52Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Can someone tell me what the TL;DR represents? > Your ‘defense’? of \*\* Pizza \*\* is puzzling me here- > It’s Day1 you would not have an investigation yet- are you claiming Masonry? Or are you posting a gut feeling without qualifying it as such? I think he’s telling us that it’s simply a gut feeling; he thinks \*\*Pizza \*\*is Town, so we shouldn’t lynch him. Here’s the post in question in its entirety, because rereading it I have some comments to make… > [@Chucara](#): > > Ok, back from a wasted weekend, but thankfully the pressure is a bit off at work. > > However seeing as you seem awfully intent on killing me over pancakes, I’ll just state what I think so far: > > - Over pancakes? > - I know your top lynch candidate is wrong, and I am quite convinced Pizza is town as well. I simply don’t see why on earth he would defend me (and so elaborately) as scum. If I’m wrong, sorry. I assume he is trying to save me because he knows how mindbogglingly awesome a mafia player I am, and that he is also town and would like to win. > - Pancakes - seriously? 😛 > - I will leave my vote on Orthohedron as my gut tells me he is slightly more likely than average to be scum. If you prefer, I vote him because of ‘syrup’, that’s why. Can’t have pancakes without syrup. Or at the very least jam. > - Right now - if we weren’t trying out Pizza’s plan ™. I’d vote those people with the least participation. But as I can’t figure out an easy way to make a post count on a single thread (excluding sign-ups) and that I’m likely to be out of the game soon, I won’t out of sheer laziness. It seems to me that where town almost always goes wrong on day one is to lynch those who participate the most, giving scum ample hiding room. I strongly believe that in this game, it is a solid strategy to encourage (by the sword) participation. It’s been a loooong while since I last played scum, but as I recall, any minor even (even a single random vote) can send the scum board buzzing, thereby putting pressure on them. Get a bandwagon starting on scum and they will be pondering whether or not to come to the aid of their mate, whether to vote for him/her, or whether to try to ignore the issue. > > TL;DR > > Please pick another target than ATPG. We are by my persuasion (if not, take that as a compliment, Pizza) both town. At least try to get some info by finding a slightly more likely scum candidate. > > My best bet is Ortho., but on D1, it stays a guess. **Chucara** , First of all, you are’t the lynch leader (and you weren’t at the time you made that post, either). We’re currently on track to lynch **Pizza** , with \*\*RyJae \*\*currently in second place. Second, pancakes (and syrup). You freely admit that your vote on \*\*orthohedron \*\*was a joke. The only substantial comment you’ve made about him since is > [@Chucara](#): > > Yes, my vote on Orthohedron was random. But this is day one. I like to put out a pressure vote here and there. The lack of response however is enough to leave my vote there (given that I have more than one this time). Please explain why you would expect someone to comment on what was obviously a joke vote? What kind of response were you looking for…“green eggs and ham”? You say he’s still your “best bet”, and that “it stays a guess”. Are you honestly saying that after almost 600 posts, you haven’t found a single thing about a single player that’s better than “a guess”? And third, because Mafia tends to bring out my OCD just a bit, I do have a list of players by post count, excluding signups. I won’t guarantee it’s 100% accurate, since it’s compiled by going through the thread post-by-post, but it’s pretty darn close. Through Post 589, I have 58 Askthepizzaguy 41 Astral Rejection 38 CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 27 Johnny Bravo 26 Lightfoot 25 USCDiver 17 Enderw24 17 fubbleskag 16 Meeko 14 Chucara 14 Mahaloth 12 GuiriEnEspana 12 Pleonast 11 Suburban Plankton 10 Babale 10 orthohedron 9 Silver Jan 9 Stanislaus 8 Dizzymrslizzy 8 RyJae 8 TexCat 7 wombat99 6 choie 6 DiggitCamara 4 RedSkeezix 2 gnarlycharly 2 Val Salva So now you can stop being lazy and vote for whomever you think it most deserving. I wasn’t planning to do this when I started writing this post, but after reviewing things, I have to **vote Chucara** because bacon, sausage, and a cup o’ joe. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/592 "2013-01-29T17:57:00Z")
I really did not think I had posted that much. Of course, this post doesn’t help matters! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/593 "2013-01-29T17:58:38Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > And third, because Mafia tends to bring out my OCD just a bit, I do have a list of players by post count, excluding signups. Thanks for doing this. I was considering doing the exact same thing. When you say “excluding signups,” do you mean all posts prior to **storyteller’s** Day 1 post, or are you using a different cutoff? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/594 "2013-01-29T18:08:37Z")
NETA: By the way, you don’t have to go through the entire thread. If you click on the number of replies next to the thread title in the “The Game Room” forum, it’ll show you the total counts for the thread. Then you just have to subtract the “pregame” posts for each player. Just to put it out there, here are the current **total** posts, not including this one: Askthepizzaguy 64 Astral Rejection 59 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 44 USCDiver 34 Johnny Bravo 33 LightFoot 32 Meeko 31 storyteller0910 29 Enderw24 26 fubbleskag 21 Suburban Plankton 20 Chucara 19 Pleonast 18 Mahaloth 17 Babale 15 GuiriEnEspaña 14 orthohedron 14 Stanislaus 13 Silver Jan 13 TexCat 11 RyJae 10 Dizzymrslizzy 9 wombat99 9 DiggitCamara 8 choie 7 Red Skeezix 6 gnarlycharlie 6 Val Salva 5 MHaye 2 Weedy 2 Chronos 2 ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/595 "2013-01-29T18:11:21Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I’m not worked up about it, **Guiri** has just made a case out of thin air. I wouldn’t expect **Guiri** to answer yes, it was rhetorical but he has lumped the 3 of us together as scum. BTW, what’s wrong with trying to defend my actions and really not liking a vote on me? Don’t answer, that was rhetorical too. I’ve lumped you together because I’m suspicious of choie but you and texcat have both come to her defense and snuggled her so I’m suspicious of you by association. When I took a look at your posts my suspicions just grew - call it gut if you like, something is off and I don’t think you’re town. I did explain this in my vote post. If choie flipped town, I’d be mighty surprised and, like any flip, it would certainly make me reconsider my suspicion of you and TexCat but not clear you, no. You weren’t defending your actions, I’m not sure what your intent was but it sure looks like you know one of the other two is town and my single vote has struck a nerve. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/596 "2013-01-29T18:29:58Z")
> [@choie](#): > > **MY VOTE ON GuiriEnEspaña** : I don’t believe you are intentionally misconstruing my posts to such an extent so I’m assuming you’re simply really angry with me and reading my posts through a filter, and I can understand how much it must suck to be called out as scum even before you’ve posted, especially if you are scum. But hey, that was a poke, there’s no way on earth you can consider that post a smudge, unless you’ve got a really guilty conscience. And your lack of confirmation didn’t earn you a vote, it was the fact that the poke worked but you had nothing more to contribute. Val Salva had confirmed, I was commenting on Johnny’s question about low participants and simply didn’t remember anything from ValSalva - not confirming is not a scum tell, never was, so if you’re voting me for forgetting that ValSalva had confirmed, fair enough, obviously I’m not paying 100% attention to the game. If you’re voting me for holding a double standard, re-read my posts. As for Chucara, the question wasn’t about the validity of meta gaming and comparing a person’s play in this game to previous games, he specifically said he needed more time to decide who to nominate because be wasn’t familiar with the players - as if meta gaming was the sole reason for making a nomination - and used that as an excuse not to nominate: “I haven’t played with many of you long enough to know who to nominate just yet”, I questioned this assertion. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/597 "2013-01-29T18:43:27Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > \ > \*Let’s look at the votes on **pizza** > . > . > . > **USCDiver** (544): because your “post is so much fucking horseshit” > . > . > . > **USC** ’s vote seems to be because of a difference in play style. This is a poor vote. To be fair, I clarified my position in [Post 564](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15947665#post15947665) when I said > [@USCDiver](#): > > I’m also not voting for \*\*Pizza \*\*because of the Plan per se, I’m voting for him for his wildly anti-town ideas. Namely voting early but not being willing to change except under extreme circumstances and for essentially saying that there does not need to be any kind of case made for a vote in Day 1. I think espousing Anti-Town ideas is reason enough for a Day 1 vote, don’t you? Much better than ‘pancakes’ anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/598 "2013-01-29T18:45:01Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I’ve lumped you together because I’m suspicious of choie but you and texcat have both come to her defense and snuggled her so I’m suspicious of you by association. When I took a look at your posts my suspicions just grew - call it gut if you like, something is off and I don’t think you’re town. I did explain this in my vote post. > > If choie flipped town, I’d be mighty surprised and, like any flip, it would certainly make me reconsider my suspicion of you and TexCat but not clear you, no. > > You weren’t defending your actions, I’m not sure what your intent was but it sure looks like you know one of the other two is town and my single vote has struck a nerve. And now you are reading things into my posts that are not there. I do know that one of the 3 is Town, me, as for **Tex and choie** , I don’t have a clue. Mountains and molehills come to mind but do what you need to do. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/599 "2013-01-29T19:04:57Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I think espousing Anti-Town ideas is reason enough for a Day 1 vote, don’t you? Much better than ‘pancakes’ anyway. Ah, thanks for pointing out your clarification; I somehow missed it. To answer your question: no. Voting a player for espousing ideas is worse than voting for no reason at all. At least a no-reason vote is obvious. But voting players for their ideas discourages discussing by making many players more cautious about what they say. And in a game based on discussion, actions which discourage it very anti-town. So while it’s very useful to point out problems with players’ ideas, voting them is bad. I think your clarification makes me move your vote from poor to scummy. **vote USCDiver** for voting a player for their ideas. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/600 "2013-01-29T19:31:17Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Ah, thanks for pointing out your clarification; I somehow missed it. > > To answer your question: no. Voting a player for espousing ideas is worse than voting for no reason at all. At least a no-reason vote is obvious. > > But voting players for their ideas discourages discussing by making many players more cautious about what they say. And in a game based on discussion, actions which discourage it very anti-town. So while it’s very useful to point out problems with players’ ideas, voting them is bad. > > I think your clarification makes me move your vote from poor to scummy. > **vote USCDiver** > for voting a player for their ideas. Well, I somehow don’t think my vote is going to in any way discourage **pizza** from posting ideas! But if I can’t vote for someone for being anti-town that will really put a hamper on my already admittedly bad Mafia skills! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=31)