# Mafia - Game in progress \[Edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635 "2013-01-09T16:03:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1081 "2013-02-11T21:18:16Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Interesting that there is a ““result”” of a wolf on a lurking player, one that probably won’t have the time to defend themselves. > > But, this game has already lynched Stan…, there is no point in talking against it, you guys fall for the way too easy traps. > > Open speculation mind you, I know nothing. Otherwise I would offer it up now, but as I don’t there you go. > > Just speaking in generalities …, lets jump to conclusions first, guilty until proven innocent, and thinking is for idiots. > [@Meeko](#): > > I don’t see how we can prove / know who wrote the barn reveal on Stan. > To that end, what is the town motivation in writing that message? > > If town can’t gain beyond the message in and of itself (and how can it, if we can’t prove a damn thing about it?) why waste the real estate? > > A player of a team, such as scum, with an off board, could offer this first in a gambit, that offers a second “piece” tomorrow morning. > > I don’t see any town motivation or rationale at wasting an entire barn writing per one result. Meeko, What the hell are you trying to say here? \*\*Stanislaus \*\*is not a “lurking player”, and had already posted several times Today before you did. And who is trying to prove that \*you \*know who wrote the Barn message? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1082 "2013-02-11T21:20:28Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > In that light, I’m even less confident that the message is genuine. It seems to require two pieces of knowledge (“Stanislaus is a Wolf” and “Stanislaus is not an Alpha Wolf”), but I see only one opportunity to have acquired them. Glad to know I’m not the only one who parsed it this way. But actually, if there is an Alpha/Godfather wolf, and a no-frills Town Investigator (which is what I’d expect in this game) were to investigate the Alpha, they’d get a Town response. Ergo, for any result of ‘wolf’ the Investigator would be able to infer that their target was not the Alpha. One action, one night. One statement with a result plus an inference based on that result. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1083 "2013-02-11T21:22:03Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > I mentioned this earlier.. > > The only way to get a Wolf positive result is IF they are not the Alpha > > ( but why was it mentioned at all? ) I suppose that it’s possible that someone has an Investigative power that explicitly can not be fooled by an Alpha Wolf. In that case, the message content makes sense…but the wording is still “off”. In that case, I would have said “\*and \*not the Alpha” rather than “\*but \*not the Alpha”. Also, since it seems that \*\*Pleonast \*\*signed his message on Night 1, I’d think that subsequent posters would follow that precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1084 "2013-02-11T21:23:23Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Glad to know I’m not the only one who parsed it this way. But actually, if there is an Alpha/Godfather wolf, and a no-frills Town Investigator (which is what I’d expect in this game) were to investigate the Alpha, they’d get a Town response. Ergo, for any result of ‘wolf’ the Investigator would be able to infer that their target was not the Alpha. One action, one night. One statement with a result plus an inference based on that result. Ok, this is correct. The logic, at least. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1085 "2013-02-11T21:24:37Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > In that light, I’m even less confident that the message is genuine. It seems to require two pieces of knowledge (“Stanislaus is a Wolf” and “Stanislaus is not an Alpha Wolf”), but I see only one opportunity to have acquired them. Suburban, take a standard alignment cop role PM in a game where there’s a godfather, there will usually be an instruction such as “You will learn that player’s alignment however the godfather will appear as town to you”, right? So if an investigative role is aware that there’s an alpha wolf and has received a result of wolf from Stanislaus, s/he can tell us both pieces of information based on a single result, right? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1086 "2013-02-11T21:25:08Z")
At least you didn’t reconcile it into some crazy idea about a Third Party investigator like that other schmuck. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1087 "2013-02-11T21:26:04Z")
My notes on \*\* babale \*\* [long post referencing a stalker and some misunderstanding about the barn mechanic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15926401&postcount=196) [a catching up post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15932856&postcount=367) where they say > [@](#): > > Note that other people have made votes that are just as stupid and empty, but I’m choosing to vote for only one of them. This is because multiple votes tend to fog the record, based on the games I’ve read through. Unless I have a good reason too, I will stick to a single vote at the time. - but also voted \*\* chucara and pizza \*\* in the same post \* [attempts to explain votes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15934166&postcount=418) [vote for \*\* chucara \*\* was mainly gut and didn’t like the way chuc voted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15934492&postcount=426) also unvotes \*\* pizza \*\* here. [unvotes \*\* chucara \*\*](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15936527&postcount=453) mainly due to \*\* chucara’s \*\* unvote of \*\* babale \*\* \*\* although I did paraphrase the pieces of the posts I was chewing on- the link is there for you to look at the full post Add to this the D1 pressure (IIRC babale was in the top 4 vote recievers) and my little theorie about the barn comments \*\* Vote babale \*\* They haven’t really posted this Day- perhaps this will spark some conversation ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1088 "2013-02-11T23:23:58Z")
As remarked, it’s getting to the time to claim. I’m a bit reluctant to do so, because I think the smear on the Barn is partly intended as a fishing expedition, but I do recognise that I would be thinking hard about voting for me under these circumstances, so… > [@story](#): > > Welcome to the game; you are the Grizzled Loner > > It’s in the nature of a the good guys in a horror movie to be… well, good - upright, noble, fresh-faced, with a kindly glint in their eye to offset their resolute jawline, and pillars of the community to boot - taking food to the elderly, helping the downtrodden, and always willing to pitch in and lend a hand at the first sign of trouble. But even these paragons can find themselves in need of the assistance of someone a little less pure, a little less decent, a little less…nice. > > That’s you: mean, ornery, rarely seen in church and perhaps a little too pleased with how much you scare the local children. You live outside town, keep yourself to yourself and mostly spend the days hunting in the woods. The evenings you spend drinking, thoughtfully rubbing your scars, and practicing your scowl for the kids. And you were happy like that too, but now… now those people need your help. Godamit. > > Have fun! > > WIN CONDITION: > You win when all Scum are dead, if and only if no third party win condition triggers before or simultaneously with yours. > > SPECIAL ABILITIES: > Once per Night, you can follow the tracks of any player to discover who, if anyone, they visited the previous Night. These results will be accurate, unless your target has taken steps to cover their tracks. > > Because you live far from any other habitation, it will be quite obvious to you on waking if an intruder has been creeping around your property at Night. This won’t stop anyone from killing you, unfortunately, but if their intentions are non-lethal you will be told before Dawn that someone visited you in the Night. I didn’t get to track anyone Night One. However, someone did in fact pay me a visit. On Night Two, I followed Babale’s tracks - with no result. I consider this a null tell, given my PM and the fact that there are multiple Scum. My suspicion is that the Scum have some sort of Role Detective, who investigated me on Night One. They then put the message on the Barn in order to push me into a claim (and maybe get me killed). If so, congrats on phase one. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1089 "2013-02-11T23:25:46Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > 1. the barn message about **Stanislaus** obviously can’t be verified so i’m suspicious of those voting for him based solely on the message. also,\*\* he was more vocal and helpful when he was scum \*\*so i’m leaning Town on him at the moment. Something of a backhanded compliment there! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1090 "2013-02-11T23:28:35Z")
1. Meeko, don’t be stupid. Of course an investigator would have town motivation to use the barn to reveal a scum. 2. I can’t believe we would consider anything but lynching Stan. We will look like idiots if we let an exposed scum off. 3. Even if you have doubts, don’t you all think it is at least pretty likely the message is legit? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1091 "2013-02-11T23:41:47Z")
My notes on \*\* ryjae \*\* [Skimming is a scum tell but I skim a lot so I don’t really believe that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15926116&postcount=187) [Yah! Weirdo poster I am I got tingly because I caught an obvious skim but then upon reflection I recall doing the same thing before. So I went on to elaborate one of the things I have seen many innocent usually vanilla townies hang from the rafters for… skimming.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15928241&postcount=224) [Only because when town comes out on Day 1 talking they end up with votes allowing the scum to lurk. That is why Day 1 unless we have more to go on than some hunch we should vote for lurkers. I made a post or two and garnered votes, how does that encourage town to talk? Just use me as an example I was collecting votes like shit attracts flies I shutup and no new votes since. So my vote will go on the he/she who lurks the most Day 1, with my vote being placed sometime today.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15936010&postcount=448) [flips a bugger at cookies- votes a lurker-](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15938196&postcount=466) adds this part > [@](#): > > Really nothing to go on Day 1 at all. We have to vote for someone because it is the way to play, I don’t really understand why but it is. To explain that a bit, how many times does a scum actually slip up Day 1? I imagine not that often the only thing we can do in a game is go back over actions and see the words as they were wrote after a town dies knowing they were truthful. > We have a better than not chance of hitting town Day 1 lynch, \*\* the scum have a much better chance nailing a townie Night 1 \*\*. What benefit does the Day 1 lynch have again? We end up most likely with 2 dead town and a lil’ extra information based on nothing more than what the scum dictated. (Based on them trying to take out “power players”) > > Day 2 and on then we have more information, but yeah Day 1 voting and calling someone scum is not a good plan in my opinion. \*\* bolding mine \*\* how often do Scum NK one of their own??? [post 468](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15938267&postcount=468) not sure how to parse this one- you had best just read it [votes pizza](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15943290&postcount=508) and adds > [@](#): > > Other than that, if I do not survive the Day I can only hope the town doesn’t allow any verbose people to guide the rest of town. If I do survive the Day then toMorrow I and others will have more information to go on to make a more informed choice. [some self anylsis?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15947657&postcount=563) and adds > [@](#): > > then posted a few more times with no helpful thought process or information since it was a waste. Scum are liable to be shitting themselves with joy at how easy town is being led. I voted for the lurker and for Pizza because Pizza seems to be doing one of the better leading jobs I have encountered. The downside is, even IF Pizza is town he is leading town to lynch a town so if I should perish new leadership must stand in. underlining mine adding to the discussion is a waste? – hmm Followed by > [@RyJae](#): > > I agree, town should be throwing information out not accusations at this stage. I have been lynched before as town as most have I am sure, this just seems like the most coordinated effort and it is horrible for town. I can say this with perfect information since I am one of them being guided and I know I am town if that makes sense. a contradiction One night fluff post only As yet no sign of the proposed helpful D2 posts ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1092 "2013-02-11T23:54:24Z")
But…Ryjae is dead now? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1093 "2013-02-12T00:00:24Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > But…Ryjae is dead now? Science fail they are in the other game too- I had the wrong notes ( atleast I posted them in the right game ) ---
**Author:** ![Dizzymrslizzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Dizzymrslizzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dizzymrslizzy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1094 "2013-02-12T00:50:09Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > **Vote Dizzymrslizzy** for her vote on **Stanislaus** solely on the basis of the message on the barn Um Who said my vote on him is SOLELY on the barn message. There are other cases on him that I agreed with, and thought about voting him yesterDay, but the barn message if true is icing on the cake. That’s a big assumption there Charlie… ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1095 "2013-02-12T00:57:49Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. I can’t believe we would consider anything but lynching Stan. We will look like idiots if we let an exposed scum off. Hypothetically, would we be just as dumb to let you off if it was your name on the barn? > [@](#): > > 1. Even if you have doubts, don’t you all think it is at least pretty likely the message is legit? Did you read my post that I linked to when I last answered this question for you? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1096 "2013-02-12T01:09:33Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Hypothetically, would we be just as dumb to let you off if it was your name on the barn? Yes, it would have been equally dumb to let me go. I would have fought my lynch, but understood it. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1097 "2013-02-12T01:12:13Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Did you read my post that I linked to when I last answered this question for you? Yes. I disagree with your analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1098 "2013-02-12T01:48:15Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. Even if you have doubts, don’t you all think it is at least pretty likely the message is legit? I think it’s exactly as likely that the message is legit as it is likely that Stansilaus’s claim above is legit: that is, it’s a crapshoot either way. I understand the logic in getting early votes in on his wagon, though. If he flips town, well, there was a barn message! Can’t blame a guy for trying to catch scum! I also understand that anybody who isn’t voting right away is putting themselves at risk if he ends up actually flipping scum. “What’s this? You waited until late to vote for him? Then clearly you knew he was scum and were hoping to avoid voting until the last minute to save him!” I’m just not convinced that we need to automatically trust an anonymous message. If the writer had added some way, any way, to trace the message back to themselves after death the way **Pleonast** did, I’d feel way better about its truth, but the message was written in such a way as to keep the writer anonymous both before and after death. It niggles at me. ETA: Does anyone have any comments about **Stan’s** claim? I don’t play enough to know whether that seems like a legit role claim. The writing seems storytellerish, from the little I’ve seen. I also see some grammatical consistencies between his post and the sample PM on post 108, but nothing that couldn’t be intentionally copied. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1099 "2013-02-12T03:42:59Z")
It is just a sniggle but it’s been pointed out before The poster on the barn used “ \*\* but \*\* not the Alpha” For a Town investigator that got a Wolf result they should/ would have thought it obvious that \*\* Stan \*\* was Not the Alpha- hence the result (since the Alpha by nature would investigate Town ) It smells like a red herring to me. \* And / but like I said before if we don’t lynch \*\* Stan \*\* odds are many investigators will tie themselves up and leave Scum alone for one Night - it could be a gamble The room is spinning now ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1100 "2013-02-12T08:44:17Z")
Posting to remind myself how far I’ve read up to. If Stanislaus is mafia, he’s not going anywhere. We can lynch him at will. No one will forget he’s been “scanned” as mafia. If he’s not mafia, lynching him now wastes an entire discussion phase and kills a townie. Anyone can post fake results. If you hadn’t gone and lynched me I was going to show that none of the fake results came from me by posting an early message on the barn that could only have come from me, and I would have then publicly interpreted that message for you so you’d know none of the fake messages came from me, a vanilla townie. But I’m dead now. I vote that you semi-ignore the results and keep Stanislaus in contention for the lynch, but otherwise discuss as normal and everyone in the game should also be voting for at least one other candidate. Everyone voting for Stan makes it easier for scum to hide their scummy voting record and creates no risk and no comparison. I can’t help without comparisons of different players to analyze. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=56)