# Mafia - Game in progress \[Edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635 "2013-01-09T16:03:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1101 "2013-02-12T08:50:22Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > I didn’t get to track anyone Night One. However, someone did in fact pay me a visit. But you posted Night One, after Dusk in #652, and again in #670. The visitor was obviously the town cop, right? > [@Stanislaus](#): > > My suspicion is that the Scum have some sort of Role Detective, who investigated me on Night One. They then put the message on the Barn in order to push me into a claim (and maybe get me killed). If so, congrats on phase one. So your idea is that the scum investigated you on Night 1, learned you were a tracker, so put the message on the barn to force you to claim? Claim what? Tracker? Isn’t that what a Role Detective would have learned? I think you’re scum, I think this is a false claim, there’s no way a tracker would have waiting so long after being called out to post this. Issues supporting the false claim idea: - the formatting of your character name - the second ellipsis looks added (no, I won’t vote you for an ellipsis) - the character sounds nasty (again, not damning alone) - there’s something quite important missing from your wincon (very damning) - you track someone each Night and learn who they visited the previous Night? (huh?) - the two abilities aren’t complementary - if you’re out tracking someone all Night, you’re not at home sleeping… These may not be reasons to vote you, this could be a false PM supplied by story, it could be a real PM with added weirdness, but the delay, the messed up theory, and the rabbit in headlights response makes me pretty certain you’re the best lynch toDay. Fubbles, choie, Texcat and Mahaloth can wait till toMorrow, unless a Vig wants to take one out toNight. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1102 "2013-02-12T08:57:24Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > If Stanislaus is mafia, he’s not going anywhere. We can lynch him at will. No one will forget he’s been “scanned” as mafia. If Pleo wasn’t dead and there was clearer evidence of a vig, I’d certainly recommend leaving him for the vig. If we leave a scummy Stanislaus alive he could be the roleblocker or detective and use his powers to hurt town. Also, he’s a logical target for any possible town watchers, trackers, roleblockers, who risk being seen interacting with him. I personally would prefer to lynch him toDay, give Cookies a medal, and move on. It’s a pity there’s no hammer mechanism or other way to shorten the Day but you’re correct, discussion shouldn’t be limited to him, we should propose and discuss other candidates so the Day has value. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1103 "2013-02-12T09:37:25Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > But you posted Night One, after Dusk in #652, and again in #670. The visitor was obviously the town cop, right? > So your idea is that the scum investigated you on Night 1, learned you were a tracker, so put the message on the barn to force you to claim? Claim what? Tracker? Isn’t that what a Role Detective would have learned? No, my theory is that the Scum investigated me on Night 1, learned I was the Grizzled Loner, and used the barn message to find out what the hell I do. Role Detective might not be the right term. > [@](#): > > I think you’re scum, I think this is a false claim, there’s no way a tracker would have waiting so long after being called out to post this. I didn’t wait that long - I didn’t want to rush into a claim if it looked like people were going to treat the message with an appropriate degree of suspicion, because that would be playing into scum’s hands. If anything, I think I claimed a little early. > [@](#): > > Issues supporting the false claim idea: > > - the formatting of your character name > - the second ellipsis looks added (no, I won’t vote you for an ellipsis) > - the character sounds nasty (again, not damning alone) > - there’s something quite important missing from your wincon (very damning) > - you track someone each Night and learn who they visited the previous Night? (huh?) > - the two abilities aren’t complementary - if you’re out tracking someone all Night, you’re not at home sleeping… 1. I c&p’d my role PM and all formatting, including the bold, blue name, disappeared. I thought about going back and putting it in, but then thought, “Nah, no-one’s seriously going to jump on me for that.” 2. … 3. That’s kind of teh point. I guess I’m a bit like Quint in Jaws. 4. No there isn’t. 5. Yep - there’s some kind of delayed action thing going on. The colour would be that you can’t follow people’s tracks until they’ve made them, I guess. But I think it’s just a different game mechanic. 6. If I’m out tracking all Night, how would a Doc find me to protect me? But it could happen, of course - there’s just a point where colour stops being consistent with the rules if you think too hard about it. If it makes you happy, imagine I notice the tracks of the intruder in the pre-Dawn light as I return home. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1104 "2013-02-12T10:31:26Z")
I like the claim. I think we should risk more time for Stan. Yeah, it’s taking a risk… but hell, what do I have to lose? I’M DEAD!!! ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1105 "2013-02-12T10:35:17Z")
Pizza, does your wincon match the one Stanislaus has claimed? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1106 "2013-02-12T15:19:56Z")
I’m also pretty skeptical of \*\*Stan’s \*\*claim. I don’t think he’s telling the whole truth. I believe that a good chunk of that Role claim is genuine, but I don’t think he’s Town. I think there are two possibilities: 1. He’s a third-party loner. His role is more or less what he’s claimed it is, but there must be something left out. That’s a pretty lame power for a third party to have. 2. He’s a Scum tracker. His role is more or less what he’s claimed it is, just the wrong alignment. The consequences of these possibilities must be explored some as well. In the first case, the Scum investigator probably found him on Night 1. The scum decided not to waste a night kill on him in the hopes that placing a false Barn message would lead the Town to do their 3rd party killing for them. Also remember that the Scum cannot communicate off-board during the Day. If their investigator discovered a third party during Night 1, he/she would likely have tried to either communicate that information during Day 2 or else try to lead the Town toward lynching that player. If \*\*Stan \*\*flips 3rd Party, I think this makes \*\*Cookies \*\*look very suspicious because she was certainly the most vocal calling for \*\*Stan’s \*\*lynch on Day 2. In the second case, a Town investigator discovered his Scummitude on Night 1 and, in order to maintain anonymity for another Day, has used a Barn message to correctly guide Town. I’m going to go ahead and **vote Stanislaus** I think his lynch will give us a lot of information to work with. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1107 "2013-02-12T16:11:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > (snip) > ETA: Does anyone have any comments about **Stan’s** claim? I don’t play enough to know whether that seems like a legit role claim. The writing seems storytellerish, from the little I’ve seen. I also see some grammatical consistencies between his post and the sample PM on post 108, but nothing that couldn’t be intentionally copied. > [@USCDiver](#): > > I’m also pretty skeptical of \*\*Stan’s \*\*claim. I don’t think he’s telling the whole truth. I believe that a good chunk of that Role claim is genuine, but I don’t think he’s Town. I think there are two possibilities: > > 1. He’s a third-party loner. His role is more or less what he’s claimed it is, but there must be something left out. That’s a pretty lame power for a third party to have. > > 2. He’s a Scum tracker. His role is more or less what he’s claimed it is, just the wrong alignment. > > The consequences of these possibilities must be explored some as well. > > In the first case, the Scum investigator probably found him on Night 1. The scum decided not to waste a night kill on him in the hopes that placing a false Barn message would lead the Town to do their 3rd party killing for them. Also remember that the Scum cannot communicate off-board during the Day. If their investigator discovered a third party during Night 1, he/she would likely have tried to either communicate that information during Day 2 or else try to lead the Town toward lynching that player. If \*\*Stan \*\*flips 3rd Party, I think this makes \*\*Cookies \*\*look very suspicious because she was certainly the most vocal calling for \*\*Stan’s \*\*lynch on Day 2. > > In the second case, a Town investigator discovered his Scummitude on Night 1 and, in order to maintain anonymity for another Day, has used a Barn message to correctly guide Town. > > I’m going to go ahead and > > **vote Stanislaus** > > I think his lynch will give us a lot of information to work with. With all the kills we had last Night, I don’t really see why Scum wouldn’t kill him by themselves. Even more: if Scum had really investigated him and found out he had a special role, they risked having him revealing himself and put someone else’s head on the noose. But mostly, I think, **Guiri** ’s observation nailed it: the win condition isn’t right. Which smells like editing to me… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1108 "2013-02-12T16:16:14Z")
I still think it is fake, but Stanislaus’ win condition matches mine verbatim. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1109 "2013-02-12T16:29:22Z")
Mahaloth, would you post your wincon please? I may be mistaken in using a variation in the PM as part of my reasoning to suspect Stanislaus is scum. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1110 "2013-02-12T17:10:58Z")
My biggest problem with the claim is how long it took to arrive. I’ve seen Town burnt too often before trying to compare writing styles and punctuation so I’m not going to go there. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1111 "2013-02-12T17:43:45Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Mahaloth, would you post your wincon please? I may be mistaken in using a variation in the PM as part of my reasoning to suspect Stanislaus is scum. Sure and feel free to tell me if this is different from his and I missed it: WIN CONDITION: You are Town. You win when all Scum are dead, if and only if no third party win condition triggers before or simultaneously with yours. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1112 "2013-02-12T17:44:48Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > With all the kills we had last Night, I don’t really see why Scum wouldn’t kill him by themselves. Even more: if Scum had really investigated him and found out he had a special role, they risked having him revealing himself and put someone else’s head on the noose. You think all those kills came from Scum?! I think the Scum found a Third Party player on Night 1, but decided to use their Night 2 kill hunting for a Town power role while using a Barn message to set up \*\*Stanislaus _for a lynching. Killing two birds with One Night Stone, as it were. Remember that the Scum have one Barn message to use per player_ but they can coordinate what is said. So don’t think of it as one message per scum but X messages for the Scum Team (X being number of scum of course). As to the second point, maybe all they learned was he was a Third Party named The Grizzled Loner. Why would they think a Third Party player would reveal themselves during the Day? That’s kind of anathema to the whole point of a Third Party isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1113 "2013-02-12T17:45:52Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sure and feel free to tell me if this is different from his and I missed it: > > WIN CONDITION: > You are Town. You win when all Scum are dead, if and only if no third party win condition triggers before or simultaneously with yours. Yeah, mine is the same as yours. It contains the phrase “You are Town”, which **Stanislaus** ’ does not. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1114 "2013-02-12T18:02:28Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sure and feel free to tell me if this is different from his and I missed it: > > WIN CONDITION: > You are Town. You win when all Scum are dead, if and only if no third party win condition triggers before or simultaneously with yours. Took your time. Yeah, Stanislaus’ posted wincon was missing his alignment, it matched the wincon in the rules but not the one in the sample PM. I can confirm that my PM included my alignment and I’m guessing I’m not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1115 "2013-02-12T19:01:12Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Took your time. > . I took my time? I posted it less than an hour after you asked. Sorry that I don’t sit here reading the thread constantly. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1116 "2013-02-12T19:01:21Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > You think all those kills came from Scum?! I think the Scum found a Third Party player on Night 1, but decided to use their Night 2 kill hunting for a Town power role while using a Barn message to set up \*\*Stanislaus _for a lynching. Killing two birds with One Night Stone, as it were. Remember that the Scum have one Barn message to use per player_ but they can coordinate what is said. So don’t think of it as one message per scum but X messages for the Scum Team (X being number of scum of course). > > As to the second point, maybe all they learned was he was a Third Party named The Grizzled Loner. Why would they think a Third Party player would reveal themselves during the Day? That’s kind of anathema to the whole point of a Third Party isn’t it? You’re right; it’s unlikely all those kills were from Scum. But now that you wrote it, it’s very likely he’s Third Party. It would fit both the name and the win condition… and if I know anything about **storyteller** ’s style, it’s that he likes to build an “atmosphere” into his games. And that might mean that he synchronized the name with the role. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1117 "2013-02-12T19:05:24Z")
Don’t worry, I’m only delurking to annoy you for a brief while. I am just replying to this latest misstatement: > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > **_choie_ and the Narrator** –More and more, **choie** ’s endless comments about the significance of the narration make me see her in scummy red. Especially when the comment is strangely divergent from the actual narration. Case in point: where is\*\* Val Salva\*\*'s body described as unidentifiable? Why single out **Pleonast** ’s method of death when, actually, neither of Night One’s victims mode of death has been described _at all_? Uh, yeah, where is **Val Salva** ’s body described? How about right before the narrative goes on to reveal she’s dead? In the post you quoted, but the part you conveniently cut. > [@storyteller0910](#): > > Dawn, Day Two > > _The camera pans down to the base of the barn, where a raven sits, picking at some unidentifiable carcass. It glances once at the camera, croaks balefully, and flies off – right over the heads of the gathered throng, who stare up at the barn._ **Unidentifiable**. So much for your “case in point.” When you next bitch about my lack of reading comprehension due to the mote in my eyes, try to take the rod out of your own, 'kay? As to **Pleo** … I didn’t do that much singling out of his mode of death (except that it does say “what remains of his body…” which to me indicates that his body’s not intact), but I _was_ pointing out the fact that he had a bloody knife in his hand. A knife that had been used. Sure, I suppose it could’ve been used on the sheep. But it also could indicate that he killed **Val**. And if so, that means that the narrative is actually, gasp, somewhat informative, if only people had eyes to see with. (On the other hand, as long as I’m overexamining the text for clues, I’d say it’s quite possible that the fact that he was butchering a sheep, and that the sheep wasn’t taken, he might not have been killed by a wolf. Wolfs eat sheep. So perhaps **Val** was wolf-killed, and **Pleo** wasn’t after all. Could go either way. For a N1 color post, I would absolutely expect this kind of ambiguity. At least from a mod who was into planting clues. If this is _verboten_ in Mafia, then you’re right, who cares. Meh. This is definitely not me, which is why I’ll stick to RPGs from now on.) To answer whoever-it-was’s question about how the narrative helps identify scum? Obviously, so far, it doesn’t point directly at anyone (as people say, the mod has to be balanced and wouldn’t be that obviously helping one side or another), but if it _were_ meaningful, and **story** is as good as everyone says, then I’d say the narrative would be used to include some useful info, and if I interpret it thusly, I’d say there are at least hints about various roles and what they might mean. As I said, the fact that only one of the bodies on N2 was mutilated indicates to me that only one of those kills was from a werewolf. Gunshot indicates assassin to me. Shovel indicates… some brutish thug of some kind, IMHO. Another Third Party, perhaps. Patently it would be ridiculous if the narrative said something like, “The shovel has fingerprints dusted in parmesean cheese,” thereby blatantly implicating **Pizza** (or however one might word such a specific clue). I mean, _DUH_. But a good writer can set up the clues and make them interpretable without their being so stupidly obvious. Is that notion really so foreign to you? I can only assume people who can’t grok this concept have never read a mystery by a good author who plays fair with his/her audience. If it means nothing, it means nothing. And that means I’m screwed. I’m not good at the paranoia parsing of words and WIFOM-interpreting the way others are. I am good at solving mysteries, that’s pretty much the only real skill that I can bring to the table. BTW, after **Stanislaus** ’s claim I’m not convinced either way. Seems weird that he didn’t “get” to track anyone on N1. If I had a power you’re damn right I’d find some time in two or three days to actually, y’know, use it. I still don’t trust the post on the Barn, though. And since I really don’t care either way anymore what anyone thinks of me (I’m dispensible and also just not enjoying this game since my one useful skill is apparently unimportant), I will break my vow not to mention the Barn writing ever again and say the chief reason I unvoted **Stanislaus** , as well as not liking the ease with which we were all bandwagoning him, was that I cannot _for the life of me_ defend the sign-painter’s use of red. If you want your words to be believed without making people mistrust them, why the hell would a Town (or Town-aligned third party) use _red_? All it does is add confusion into the mix and I just cannot see why a Townie would want to muddy the issue with shit like this. So either it’s a third party, a scum, or a Townie who, frankly, is even worse than I am at this. Hint to future Townies who post on the barn wall: for God’s sake, don’t format your message. Not red and not blue–the latter is also confusing and easy to assume is a fake. Don’t format it at _all_. Let your words speak for themselves. And use your ten words _efficiently_. I don’t make Wall of Words posts linking everyone to every last thing someone said. I don’t find that kind of parsing profitable, for me or anyone else who’d read it. Plus, no one would listen anyway. For example, no one paid attention to my question or picked up on this fact that **Suburban** unvoted **Pleo** at the last moment despite the fact there was no earthly reason to do so, as the only vote on the guy **Pleo** was in no danger whatsoever. I’m still mildly curious to know why he unvoted like that. Someone, maybe it was **Cookies** or more likely **USCDiver** , successfully diverted the attention from that question by focusing only on my suspecting that he might’ve known **Pleo** was the vig, and if the order of power usage is as you all say it is (i.e. people can’t get the results of their actions and _then_ post their messages on the Barn), then I suppose he couldn’t have known he was the vig in time to post the message. But if he is Scum, then he _could_ have known **Pleo** was Town. And maybe he didn’t want his sole vote to be on a Townie. (A Townie who, coincidentally, was the one killed that Night, and the one who flipped to show his true blue color.) So the question still stands: **Suburban** , why unvote **Pleo** at the last minute when he was in no danger? Okay, that’s all I can contribute to this game. Oh, just one more thing. Do I have a “me vs. them” feeling? Yeah, I do. Let’s see, I’ve had all and sundry tell me how useless I am at paying attention, that all my theories are dumb, that the one skill I thought I could bring to this game is worthless because **story** ’s words don’t matter, that anyone who talks even mildly politely to me is clearly fellow scum, and–the _coup de grace_–that my very posting style is annoying. Yeah, I can’t _imagine_ why I’d feel alone and beleaguered. I won’t quit and I won’t vote myself anymore, but I sure as hell won’t be offering any more defenses. Lynch me or kill me, at this point it doesn’t matter. I have a vague desire for Town to win, because that’s the only way I win, plus loyalty matters to me. But it’s waning fast, especially if it turns out the people who have made the game \*so \*immensely pleasurable for me are actually Town instead of the manipulative Scum I suspect they are. If that’s the case, then we deserve what we get. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1118 "2013-02-12T19:18:56Z")
Hey **choie** , if your skill is in solving mysteries, may I suggest you turn your eye to the posts made by the players and not to the ones by the Mod. There is plenty of mystery there to be analyzed. I think your questioning of **Suburban** regarding his unvote of **Pleo** to be a very valid point. But to suggest that the reason is because **Suburban** somehow knew during Day 1 that **Pleo** was the Vig definitely undermines your point. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1119 "2013-02-12T21:11:30Z")
> [@choie](#): > > So the question still stands: **Suburban** , why unvote **Pleo** at the last minute when he was in no danger? No, the question does not still stand. I answered it the first time you asked it, back in Post 1079. I’ll repost it here for your convenience. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@choie](#): > > > > OTOH that seems like such an elementary giveaway that I don’t know if it means anything. I’ll just ask: **Suburban** , why _did_ you waste an unvote on a guy with only one vote on him? > > Quite frankly, I don’t recall what my thought process was almost 2 weeks ago, but based on what I wrote in that post, I think it was something like this: > > I had accused **Pleonast** of being Scum and trying to save **Pizza** , who I also thought was Scum. Pleo pointed out that if he were trying to save Pizza, he wouldn’t also be voting for him. That sorta ruined my hypothesis, and since that’s the only reason I was voting Pleo in the first place, I unvoted. > > I think the number of votes on \*\*Pleonast \*\*at the time is completely irrelevant. I don’t consider it a “wasted” unvote. Why do you? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635/1120 "2013-02-12T21:27:08Z")
For the record, I’m not ready to dismiss \*\*choie’s \*\*idea that there might be subtle clues hidden in the Dawn color. I’ve played in a number of games where killers had ‘signatures’ by which multiple kills could be tied to a single player. I’ve also played in plenty of games in which color was “only color”. I’m not sure off-hand which style \*\*storyteller \*\*prefers, if any, and I don’t recall him making a pronouncement on the subject. That being said, I don’t think there’s anything in the two Dawn writeups that is of much use to us at this point. We were never given a description of **Val Salva’s** body. \*\*Pleonast \*\*was simply described as ‘slumped against a table’. The three bodies Today were ‘mutilated’, ‘blown apart from the center’, and ‘skull caved in at the rear’. I don’t see any pattern so far. Perhaps after another Night or two something will emerge. If we see more bodies that are ‘blown up’, for example, that would suggest to me a connection. But for the moment I think this line of reasoning isn’t leading too far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-in-progress-edited-title/646635.md?page=57)