# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 112
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2221 "2012-04-29T13:46:07Z")
Well, **Plankton** has stolen a good bit of my thunder. I was also in private conversation with **ToeJam** before his death. Per TJ, he was not a Rogue when he Watched **Visorslash** ; he was an Assassin, which he claims is a watcher role. As far as I can tell, he was switching classes as frequently as he could in order to try to figure out what they all did. He was very confident that **fubbleskag** was a third party, but didn’t claim any insider information - it was just based on his own win condition and the way **fubbles** appeared to be trying to collect money early on. This seems like a pretty reasonable connection, though not obviously definitive. I have no reason to think he was lying about RealityTrips visiting Visorslash; when ToeJam lies it’s usually a bit bigger and grander than something like that. He was also very careful not to say for certain that RealityTrips _attacked_ Visorslash, which I think he would have done if he were making the whole thing up out of whole cloth. He also had some information on which players were communicating extensively off board. I’m not really sure that information is worth very much - I don’t think a frequent off-board communicator is any more likely to be Town or Scum than one who stays mostly or entirely on-board. Think that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2222 "2012-04-29T21:40:17Z")
Whilst the reveal gives us more info than the others, “self interested” is one of the standard d&d definitions of Neutral, so that part may well have been just another moral alignment reveal. An assassin would probably have lock picking devices too, and certainly would watch comings and goings. If this was supposed to be a transitory role - **Suburban Plankton** or **Storyteller** , did **ToeJam** give you any ideas as to what else he passed through? It doesn’t seem to me to be something that could be gotten by day 3 levelling from soldier. Then again, did I notice that there is a sort of way to move up fast by levelling in the day and changing roles in the following night? That doesn’t seem to be what the initial Role PM said, but I have some memory of ATPG saying it? I guess the obvious question is whether an assassin was responsible for any of the outright kills (and if it was night, why it might have looked like a Phere killing)? ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2223 "2012-04-30T14:26:39Z")
Gadarene, you are way too quiet. What is going on with you? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2224 "2012-04-30T14:51:38Z")
Glad somebody said it. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2225 "2012-04-30T15:16:57Z")
Is anyone else finding the Nights way too long? I know we can talk but it seems as if everybody is waiting for Day to start again. I realise that Pizzamod has a lot to do but I am waiting to see what happened during the Night and if it could help us at all. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2226 "2012-04-30T15:30:44Z")
Astral from 23 days ago agrees with you: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I see this being an issue, though. Conversation stops at night, because there’s little point in telling the scum team what you plan to do or who you plan to target once Day breaks. 3 days of silence will really put a hurt on the conversation every single Dawn. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2227 "2012-04-30T15:36:53Z")
I think the next game I host will have 4 kills per cycle: day lynch for town and day kill for scum, and then night lynch for town and night kill for scum. What fun! What bloodshed! ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2228 "2012-04-30T16:20:06Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > Whilst the reveal gives us more info than the others, “self interested” is one of the standard d&d definitions of Neutral, so that part may well have been just another moral alignment reveal. > > An assassin would probably have lock picking devices too, and certainly would watch comings and goings. > > If this was supposed to be a transitory role - **Suburban Plankton** or **Storyteller** , did **ToeJam** give you any ideas as to what else he passed through? It doesn’t seem to me to be something that could be gotten by day 3 levelling from soldier. > > Then again, did I notice that there is a sort of way to move up fast by levelling in the day and changing roles in the following night? That doesn’t seem to be what the initial Role PM said, but I have some memory of ATPG saying it? > > I guess the obvious question is whether an assassin was responsible for any of the outright kills (and if it was night, why it might have looked like a Phere killing)? To me, “self interested” seems more Chaotic than Neutral…but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. \*\*ToeJam \*\*told me during day 1 that he was a Soldier. According to **story** , when he watched \*\*Visorslash \*\*he was an Assassin. He told me about **Visorslash/realitytrips** during Day 3 and referred to it as happening “last night”, which would mean Night 2. And he was a Rogue (Thief) when he died. So, if he was telling the truth he went Soldier (Day 1) -\> Assassin (Day 2) -\> Rogue (Thief) (Day 3). ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2229 "2012-04-30T16:34:04Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Gadarene, you are way too quiet. What is going on with you? Says the person with only two posts Tonight, neither of which were gameplay-related. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2230 "2012-04-30T16:38:44Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I think the next game I host will have 4 kills per cycle: day lynch for town and day kill for scum, and then night lynch for town and night kill for scum. What fun! What bloodshed! Oooh!! I can like 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2231 "2012-04-30T16:46:56Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Oooh!! I can like 🙂 I’ll try it out when I host on your board, Silver, and if I like it I’ll incorporate it into De’endee 2. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2232 "2012-04-30T16:49:35Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’ll try it out when I host on your board, Silver, and if I like it I’ll incorporate it into De’endee 2. That sounds great, I hope our board gets enough player though. Mitch started that board for us and I thinks it’s only LightFoot and Me that have run a game on there?? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2233 "2012-04-30T16:51:26Z")
PMs from realitytrip as promised. I’ve redacted most of his information, though it’s necessary for context to reveal that he didn’t start the game as plain vanilla. I’m not sure what to think of him and am upset that he just disappeared. A few more thoughts after I eat. [QUOTE=realitytrip] Ok. I keep going back and forth on you being scum or not. Right now, I am leaning not scum. I thought your response to my voting you was good. If you are not scum, you are a talkative townie and it would behoove me to have you on my side. If you are scum, well, it wouldn’t be my first misstep in this game. I am town. [---------------------] You want to know who has been attacking Visorslash? I am one of the people. [--------------------------------------] This is why I have pretty much ignored Visorslash in my postings. Trying not to make it too obvious to scum who the attackers are. Why? Well, Visorslash may be town..but his behavior may lead to him being a mislynch…I think his posts often distract rather than help…if its too far…well I may be talked to changing targets.. Here’s hoping I didn’t make a big mistake telling you this…😛 [/QUOTE] I asked him what he expected from me and got: > [@](#): > > Beyond not leading the charge to lynch me, nothing. > I have to look into Weedy some more. There were some fair observations, but some of her comments seemed more misreading…course maybe that’s the way I come off. I don’t know. > Some more helpful info about me - [----------------------------------] > Do with that what you will… I challenged him on being “most concerned” (quote from one of his posts) about the non-Phere night attacks from night one when he’d just admitted that one of those attacks was himself. I found it to be unnecessarily misleading, bordering an outright lie, the way he put it. I later went back and read it again and changed my mind somewhat – he seems to have been referring to all night attacks with his “most concerned”, not just the non-Phere ones. But this comment is from when I was all “AHAH” about that statement. > [@](#): > > Yes. My night power doesn’t kill anyone (at least not in one blow…not a killing blow, it does hp damage.) I think someone else’s does. I am very curious to see how tonight goes. [----------------------] If it will help you see that I am who I say I am - would you like me to attack Visor or not attack tonight? [----------------]. > > Ok, and yes, I am not going to announce to the board this early that I have an attacking night power. I am sorry you didn’t like that post, but I wasn’t about to say, “I have a night power…I was one of the attackers…who else was?” > > I do want to find out as much about other powers (not necessarily who has them as hidden town powers are essential for town) as I can. Knowledge is power for town. Yes, its power for scum as well, but townies have to try and catch up somehow. I told him he was missing the point and it was about his mis-leading the town/very nearly lying. (My comment for context: > [@](#): > > That’s not my point. There were only two non-Lord Phere attackers on night one, correct? One of whom was you. Neither of whom did lethal damage. So, > > 1. what is so all-fired concerning about that single other attack that it would be the most notable thing you had to point out, even above and beyond the scum attack(s); and 2. as a claimed townie, why would you deliberately leave the impression that you had nothing to do with either of those attacks? That was very, very close to an outright lie from you. Why? RT’s response: > [@](#): > > Really? Really? > > Ok…not talking about hp attacks. Talking about magic attack that killed Inner Stickler. I personally (no, I don’t have any knowledge, just guessing) think his death was via a player, not necessarily scum. > > I just told you why I would want to give that impression. I am sorry, this is my first mafia game, I have only ever played werewolf in person, but in my experience townies only should reveal powers as an absolute last resort, usually when facing a lynch. So why on earth would I give an impression that I might have a night power? What good comes of that besides becoming a night kill target? Isn’t it best as a “power” town to try and pretend to be “vanilla” town? > > Maybe its just me and I don’t fit this game, but I just don’t understand…if this doesn’t make sense to you, please do me a favor and lynch me tomorrow and I can leave you guys to this. And a final PM from him: > [@](#): > > See here’s the thing: I just go with my gut. Maybe that makes me a crappy player (probably), but my eyes kinda glaze over on the point by point and point by point rebuttal. I don’t have the time or patience. It probably does make me look scummy at times. Often just the way something reads changes my mind. > > So, like with Weedy putting out a scum case for me at the moment, you both focus on my back and forth about Astral..but that is what I did, at least in my head. You know I read a line, and I think that’s not quite right…but often its more subtle than that…its tone I guess. The same went with you and your reads of me. The way you responded to my voting of you just doesn’t read scummy to me. I totally expected you to react differently. That is why I went from voting you to thinking you town. > > And that’s what makes it hard for me to put out my thoughts on others - because if I do - its going to look scummy or weak. I will work on doing it more, because I know that at least one of the loud voices has to be scum (no, I am not sure). > > I do think I am on a different wavelength than you and many of the others here. It makes it VERY frustrating, as I am sure you can tell from some of my posts. I am trying very, very hard to not let get it to me, but as a newbie, its very hard to shake off when you write things that are true to you (guess you will just have to take my word on that) and other people completely misread your words and your intent. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2234 "2012-04-30T16:53:00Z")
All those PMs were exchanged during Night Two, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2235 "2012-04-30T17:02:17Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Gadarene, you are way too quiet. What is going on with you? > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Glad somebody said it. Not too much. I haven’t been on my computer a ton over the last few days, POG being down and it being the weekend and all. My overall energy level for this game has ebbed a bit as well. I’m happy to quote my PM conversations with ToeJam if you think it would shed some additional light. He said that he had a Neutral win condition (the “amass wealth” thing I talked about however many Days ago) but that he was actively working in favor of the Town and that he was not a PFK; I saw no reason to disbelieve him. I advance in class after toNight, and I’m interested to see what new powers I’ll have. I was sort of expecting this game to be higher-carnage than it has been. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2236 "2012-04-30T17:04:38Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Is anyone else finding the Nights way too long? I know we can talk but it seems as if everybody is waiting for Day to start again. I realise that Pizzamod has a lot to do but I am waiting to see what happened during the Night and if it could help us at all. Me. Dunno how much there is to discuss right now. Or rather, I feel like there’s probably a ton to discuss, but I haven’t gotten any real sense of the shape of this game, so it’s hard to get purchase. I think a Scum should just volunteer to out themselves to give us all information. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2237 "2012-04-30T17:09:10Z")
What makes no sense to me is how realitytrip approaches the disclosure. He’s been “going back and forth” on whether Normal Phase is town, and right now he’s leaning town, so… here’s his role claim. (I’m assuming that’s what the redacted part is, since they later discuss his night power). It’s nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2238 "2012-04-30T17:16:16Z")
If my notes are correct, these are the attacks on **Visorshash** : Day 1 - 0 HP (unspecified attack, protected by Inner Stickler, who took 75 HP damage) Day 1 - 100 HP (magical orb) Night 1 - 100 HP (physical attack) Day 2 - 50 HP (physical attack by Lord Phere) Day 2 - 100 HP (magical orb) Day 2 - 150 HP (physical attack) Night 2 - 100 HP (unspecified attack) **Normal** , Can you say with any certainty which of these attacks \*\*realitytrip \*\*is taking credit for? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2239 "2012-04-30T17:20:39Z")
When he first contacted me, RT’s role reveal (along with his focus on the non-Phere kills, which I later thought I might have mis-read) slammed me right into “I’m dealing with a third party here” territory. I guess I just have a mental block on the idea that a scum team would sign on for such a questionably motivated contact. And the bit in the opening color about there maybe being players in the game who are only out to get each other would seem to explain a lot: his scummy posts, his concern with night attackers who are not Lord Phere, and even his contacting me – whatever I’m coming across as, I very much doubt that anyone’s seeing me as a likely third party/PFK. And a third party wouldn’t much care if I was scum or town, only that I didn’t come after him. So I don’t know. I’ve been back and forth a dozen times since this PM exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2240 "2012-04-30T17:24:08Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Can you say with any certainty which of these attacks \*\*realitytrip \*\*is taking credit for? I think I know all of them. Would it help to say so/ be smart to say so? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=111) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=113)