# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2301 "2012-05-02T15:08:11Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m okay with all of these modkills. > > Dear town: I think we need more dead bodies for info. It’s increasingly becoming clear to me that this game was balanced around more bloodshed. Might I suggest we start actually combining our attacks on targets? For realsies this time? 😃 I’ve been attacking Phere. 🙂 Which targets would you suggest? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2302 "2012-05-02T15:11:59Z")
I’m also very much looking forward to seeing what my new power(s) are when I receive my updated role PM. I’m like a kid on Christmas Eve! (What? My family always opens presents on Christmas Eve. We’re not weird. _You’re_ the weird ones, you waiting-until-morning freakshows.) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2303 "2012-05-02T15:29:25Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Why are you asking ME why Guiri should be more suspicious than myself? Presumably, I know my own alignment. Just because I was resurrected similarly does not mean our resurrections were the same. Well if anything you’d think he would be less suspicious – he was night killed (by Phere at that), while you were a resurrected lynchee. So I’m just a little interested in the source of your paranoia. > [@](#): > > As for what I meant by chance: Askthepizzaguy said to me “you can switch your alignment now, if you want.” Like everything else about my role, I then immediately reported that to town. What did you do to prompt that choice being offered to you? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2304 "2012-05-02T15:32:03Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I got a similar message. It STRONGLY implied, if not outright suggested, that changing my alignment will change my goals in this game. With what I know about ToeJam’s win condition as a True Neutral, I interpreted this to mean that changing the good/neutral/evil component of my alignment would change my win condition. You might want to reread what Pizza said again. 🙂 (And what did you do to be offered such a choice?) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2305 "2012-05-02T15:45:49Z")
I’ve attacked someone every day. Pizza has already said actions affect your alignment. Is this like some “gotcha!” question where you already know the answer but you’re really interested in my response? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2306 "2012-05-02T15:47:17Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > (And what did you do to be offered such a choice?) Paraphrasing: I did enough stuff, apparently. I’ve used a day action every day, I have voted every day, and I have engaged in a moderate amount of PMing. That’s it. The message was unsolicited and, as I said, I’m perfectly happy with my alignment. (Let me walk back my earlier statement about never changing my alignment in the future, though. I will never be anything other than Good. However, depending on what class branches are available to me with my latest promotion, I may well try to become Neutral Good or Chaotic Good if it looks like the classes with those alignment requirements will help Town more than the class with the Lawful Good requirement.) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2307 "2012-05-02T15:49:24Z")
Also, your seeming insistence that resurrected night kills are less suspicious than resurrected day lynches doesn’t really hold up. We don’t know the terms of anyone’s resurrection. Your alignment when you died may not be the same as your alignment when you’re revived. The way you died has no bearing on what you are when you’re resurrected as far as we know, is what I’m saying. This whole conversation is a red herring smudge. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2308 "2012-05-02T16:10:18Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’ve attacked someone every day. Pizza has already said actions affect your alignment. > > Is this like some “gotcha!” question where you already know the answer but you’re really interested in my response? No, I didn’t know the answer. I’ve never done anything to warrant switching from lawful/good and I wasn’t aware it was even a choice offered you. I thought it just happens. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2309 "2012-05-02T16:12:08Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Paraphrasing: I did enough stuff, apparently. I’ve used a day action every day, I have voted every day, and I have engaged in a moderate amount of PMing. That’s it. The message was unsolicited and, as I said, I’m perfectly happy with my alignment. > > (Let me walk back my earlier statement about never changing my alignment in the future, though. I will never be anything other than Good. However, depending on what class branches are available to me with my latest promotion, I may well try to become Neutral Good or Chaotic Good if it looks like the classes with those alignment requirements will help Town more than the class with the Lawful Good requirement.) Well this is why I’m confused. You say the message was unsolicited, but was it unprompted? Did you attack people, like Astral says that he did? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2310 "2012-05-02T16:13:15Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Well this is why I’m confused. You say the message was unsolicited, but was it unprompted? Did you attack people, like Astral says that he did? As I mentioned earlier, I’ve attacked Phere every day but Day One, where I didn’t attack anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2311 "2012-05-02T16:15:03Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Also, your seeming insistence that resurrected night kills are less suspicious than resurrected day lynches doesn’t really hold up. We don’t know the terms of anyone’s resurrection. Your alignment when you died may not be the same as your alignment when you’re revived. > > The way you died has no bearing on what you are when you’re resurrected as far as we know, is what I’m saying. > > This whole conversation is a red herring smudge. Bah. Please not to be chucking mud on my efforts to get this right. Guiri’s mode of death gives him a leg up on you in terms of the “being town prior to resurrection” sweepstakes. I do take your point that may mean little or nothing to how he stands now, and so can see where you would have been coming from in saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2312 "2012-05-02T16:16:12Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > As I mentioned earlier, I’ve attacked Phere every day but Day One, where I didn’t attack anyone. Right. Was the offer to change to neutral morality or neutral “lawfulness” or whatever that category is? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2313 "2012-05-02T16:18:09Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Right. Was the offer to change to neutral morality or neutral “lawfulness” or whatever that category is? The two options presented to me were Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good, so I presume that I’m given the choice to move one “step” away from my current alignment in either direction. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2314 "2012-05-02T16:20:03Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > The two options presented to me were Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good, so I presume that I’m given the choice to move one “step” away from my current alignment in either direction. …Which means, if Astral is telling the truth about the message that he received, that his current alignment is either: (1) Neutral Good; (2) Lawful Neutral; (3) Neutral Evil; or (4) Chaotic Neutral, since he was given the choice to move to Neutral/Neutral, and I wasn’t. (Apologies if you’ve already disclosed your alignment in-thread and I’ve forgotten or missed it, Astral.) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2315 "2012-05-02T16:20:42Z")
OK. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2316 "2012-05-02T16:21:19Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Paraphrasing: I did enough stuff, apparently. I’ve used a day action every day, I have voted every day, and I have engaged in a moderate amount of PMing. That’s it. The message was unsolicited and, as I said, I’m perfectly happy with my alignment. > > (Let me walk back my earlier statement about never changing my alignment in the future, though. I will never be anything other than Good. However, depending on what class branches are available to me with my latest promotion, I may well try to become Neutral Good or Chaotic Good if it looks like the classes with those alignment requirements will help Town more than the class with the Lawful Good requirement.) Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Gadarene and Astral are both on the up and up here - that both have good moral alignments and have been offered a chance to switch to neutral moral alignments, and that Gadarene, at least, has taken no action against other players other than voting - I wonder if there’s any reason that could be helpful to us. Perhaps voting for Town - whether intentionally or not - moves one down the path from Good toward Evil, and voting for Scum does the opposite? Or something along those lines? It’s a working hypothesis, but if something like that _is_ happening it could be a huge help in terms of analyzing the situation later in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2317 "2012-05-02T16:23:53Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Bah. Please not to be chucking mud on my efforts to get this right. Guiri’s mode of death gives him a leg up on you in terms of the “being town prior to resurrection” sweepstakes. I do take your point that may mean little or nothing to how he stands now, and so can see where you would have been coming from in saying that. I reject your claim. I flipped “good” same as Guiri. I was resurrected in a SEEMINGLY similar manner. With Weedy’s death, we know scum or pfks flip scum. And you seem to want it both ways. You’re implying that Guiri is more likely to be town than me, even though you admit his resurrection could have changed everything. Once again, because you’re paranoid, you have to cast doubt on everything I say. How is “scum might not have killed anyone and may have been behind Guiri’s revival, I’m going to wait and see if there are any other surprises before deciding how I feel” a bad thing to say? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2318 "2012-05-02T16:26:44Z")
Gadarene: I’m neutral/good.[I explain my alignment and options here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15024913&postcount=2292) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2319 "2012-05-02T16:28:13Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Gadarene and Astral are both on the up and up here - that both have good moral alignments and have been offered a chance to switch to neutral moral alignments, and that Gadarene, at least, has taken no action against other players other than voting - I wonder if there’s any reason that could be helpful to us. Perhaps voting for Town - whether intentionally or not - moves one down the path from Good toward Evil, and voting for Scum does the opposite? Or something along those lines? It’s a working hypothesis, but if something like that _is_ happening it could be a huge help in terms of analyzing the situation later in the game. I see where you’re coming from with this, except that I can opt not to change my alignment at all (which is, in fact, what I’m doing). So while Neutral Good and Lawful Neutral are now open to me as paths, I am remaining Lawful Good. If voting for Townies moves me down the path from Good to Evil, you’d think I wouldn’t be given the choice to stay the way I am. (Also, you’d think I wouldn’t be given the choice to move from Lawful Good to Neutral Good, since both are still Good alignments.) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2320 "2012-05-02T16:29:39Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Gadarene: I’m neutral/good.[I explain my alignment and options here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15024913&postcount=2292) :smack: Thanks. I wonder whether it would be at all handy to ask that everyone reveals their current alignment? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=117)