# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2341 "2012-05-02T20:24:29Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > The wind attack on choie from yesterday’s lynch write-up, via Lord Phere. [I don’t see me in there](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15012290&postcount=2195) \*\*baffled? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2342 "2012-05-02T20:34:45Z")
I thought I had the rings figured out. Three attacks via Lord Phere yesterday and three rings known, and all of them seemed to match up appropriately: Choie, emerald ring, attack on MHaye with earth Lightfoot, sapphire ring, attack on choie with wind Weedy, blue ring, attack on me with ice But apparently not. Now I’m wondering if there’s a distinction between “color” ring and “jewel” ring, or if the whole thing is a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2343 "2012-05-02T20:38:10Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Crazy goings on here. I’m kinda surprised that **Weedy** has flipped… well, not scum, I guess we still don’t know that, but _very_ evil. Doesn’t really match her behavior if you ask me. Still, all in all I’m glad to be rid of an _very_ evil player; I can’t imagine her intentions were pro-Town with such an alignment. Unless said town happens to be EvilTown in the country of Villainia. Who exactly are you talking to with this section? This is the kind of thing that typically raises my hackles. It’s kind of similar to town lecturing, where scum players will speak in a lecture-y way, saying things like “as we all know” and so on. No one here thinks “very evil” could possibly be pro-town, and I’m curious why you felt the need to point that out to us. You’re off my radar, so this isn’t really worthy of a vote, but it’s an odd section. One thing I thought was funny: taking the risky stance of being glad a possible scum player was dead. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2344 "2012-05-02T20:45:35Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Who exactly are you talking to with this section? This is the kind of thing that typically raises my hackles. It’s kind of similar to town lecturing, where scum players will speak in a lecture-y way, saying things like “as we all know” and so on. No one here thinks “very evil” could possibly be pro-town, and I’m curious why you felt the need to point that out to us. I disagree that no one thinks that “very evil” could be pro-town. First off, we haven’t heard from everyone, and further, there have been arguments made that one can be “evil” and “Town,” as D&D alignment may not match Town/Scum alignment. So it’s not a very long trip to assume someone might make the same argument about “very evil.” As far as who I’m talking to? Myself, mostly. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > One thing I thought was funny: taking the risky stance of being glad a possible scum player was dead. 😃 Did I say it was risky? Stop putting words in my mouth, please. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2345 "2012-05-02T20:45:56Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I thought I had the rings figured out. Three attacks via Lord Phere yesterday and three rings known, and all of them seemed to match up appropriately: > > Choie, emerald ring, attack on MHaye with earth > Lightfoot, sapphire ring, attack on choie with wind > Weedy, blue ring, attack on me with ice > > But apparently not. Now I’m wondering if there’s a distinction between “color” ring and “jewel” ring, or if the whole thing is a red herring. I’ve no time at the moment. But I wanted to question your vote/reasoning before it got lost in the pages. you voted me for something you imagined I was responsible for ( ok deduced ) why me and not the other two you seem to have figured out? more later… ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2346 "2012-05-02T20:51:44Z")
Oh right I forgot: **unvote: Lightfoot** Not choie because I find her distinctly towny and not Weedy because she’s dead. That left you. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2347 "2012-05-02T21:08:27Z")
Hey! I’m alive! And I’ve given up smoking - once bitten… It seems I owe Astral some sort of an apology… Weedy was a white mage? I started as a neutral mage and needed to switch my alignment to lawful (two protections) in order to become a White Mage. Weedy was very evil but killed by Lord Phere? That could be multiple evil factions, a redirected scum kill, a paranoid gun owner type, or Lord Phere isn’t solely a vehicle for scum. I notice that Astral’s resurrection was a brilliant flash of a glowing light while mine was a mere shimmer of a faint white light. Either different powers or the same power is being used up. I need to re-read as a player rather than a spectator. I’ve yet to receive a PM from Pizza but from the Dawn color I’m assuming I’m not a zombie and allowed to post freely. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2348 "2012-05-02T21:46:37Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Per our discussion earlier, why didnt you ask that of ToeJam? I never answered this. I assumed Visorslash had attacked Lord Phere so was setting up a “gotcha” moment with ToeJam. When Visor replied saying he’d attacked choie, I was thrown off, and as he had previously expressed suspicion of her and voted her, I didn’t think it was worth pursuing the questioning. > [@choie](#): > > Though at least I can say we’re now even. You attacked Visorslash? > [@BobArrgh](#): > > I think it would be more likely that a Scum would profess a Town lean on a real Townie, to build up Town credit. Is this related to Weedy’s [#1643](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14976877&postcount=1643) or [#1651](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14977305&postcount=1651)? > [@Gadarene](#): > > Someone with more free time than me should take a look at the timing of the votes on Astral, especially the torrent that followed once Guiri put his imprimatur on the wagon. It bothered me when Normal commented on the wagon and this bothers me too. I was among your top suspects but you suspected those who followed my lead? How should I interpret imprimatur? > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > The players voting for\*\* Astral\*\* after\*\* Guiri’\*\*s vote are **Tanaer** **ToeJam MHaye Weedy** > > Technically both\*\* Normal\*\* and\*\* Septimus\*\* placed a vote after **Guiri** but they were re-voting. > > There could possibly be scum hiding amongst them (probably even). The only one of the four that I have a slight Town read on is **Weedy** but she was the last to vote for\*\* Astral\*\*, so I really don’t have a clue yet as to who is scum. Same question for SilverJan, this was #1678 but then in #1685 you suddenly had a clue: > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > It’s nearly 2:30am and I have been waiting for someone to say something about my list of suspects. Ok I am off to bed see you later. At least question me about them.\*\* Guiri\*\* is on top of my list at the moment because he looked as if he was the pivotal vote for\*\* Astral\*\*. Which is it, me for being the pivotal vote, or those who followed? What makes one vote pivotal, especially when yours could equally be considered pivotal as it was the first of 7 over the course of just 32 posts. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I don’t trust Guiri. And I’d be very suspicious of you if you did. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2349 "2012-05-02T22:05:44Z")
> [@Guiri quoting me](#): > > Though at least I can say we’re now even. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > You attacked Visorslash? To refresh everyone’s memory, this came after you protected me and took **Visor** ’s attack in my place. You didn’t quote the whole paragraph, which read: > [@me](#): > > Though as it turns out, it’s poor Guiri who paid the price for your attack, which is a shame. Though at least I can say we’re now even. There are three players referred to in this paragraph: You, **Visorslash** , and I. The “we” in “we’re” did not include **Visorslash**. FWIW, we’re no longer even. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2350 "2012-05-02T22:05:46Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > It bothered me when Normal commented on the wagon and this bothers me too. I was among your top suspects but you suspected those who followed my lead? How should I interpret imprimatur? I find a rapid outpouring of votes that create a runaway wagon notable. In my experience such an outpouring is likely to contain scum who are looking for a safe, consensus place to put their vote, especially if it virtually ensures the accomplishment of a mislynch. I’m allowed to be suspicious of you and yet simultaneously suspicious of people who take the opportunity to follow the lead of a respected player by putting the wagon that player has voted for effectively out of reach. To the extent those votes are reflexive votes, the act of casting them is easy and justification-free. By imprimatur, I mean that your vote (made as it was by one of the consensus top Townie players on the site) may have made it a more serious and legitimate wagon than it was before, conferring upon it the weight of inertia and inevitability. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2351 "2012-05-02T23:58:58Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Is this related to Weedy’s [#1643](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14976877&postcount=1643) or [#1651](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14977305&postcount=1651)? Neither. It was solely directed at **Visorslash’s** comment. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2352 "2012-05-03T00:35:48Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > OK, so Lightfoot got the sapphire ring and choie the emerald ring on day two. Either of you know what your item does? > > Three people voted for Weedy that day: gnarly, Gadarene and Skeezix. I’ve a few minutes I have no idea what my item does. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2353 "2012-05-03T02:49:31Z")
Okay, got a thing to discuss about Weedy. I feel I can softclear a few folks based on Weedy’s comments **if she was part of a scum team**. The jury is clearly out on this one, since something happened to the scum kill if Weedy ain’t it. If another person flips “Very Evil,” I’ll consider that circumstantial evidence that Weedy was part of the team, and return to this. Weedy spends [an inordinate amount of time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14977286&postcount=1650) building cases on realitytrip. That’s just the initial case. Weedy revisits realitytrip again and again, pushing hard. It doesn’t feel at all like bussing, especially as realitytrip isn’t in danger. Second, Weedy [spends a lot of time on Choie](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14996676&postcount=1852). Again, her case is built up over several posts, and she comes back to it post after post. Also doesn’t feel like bussing on the Choie-ster. There’s also some gold in this post: > [@Weedy](#): > > Where I’m at the moment: > > Town - (manipulate away, ToeJam) > Tanaer > PetW > > strongish Town lean > \ > > Slight Town lean > \ > > Scum lean > mhaye (trending up) > Red Skeezix > Toe Jam > > There’s a bunch of people that I have no read on and a bunch of lurkers that I don’t know what to do with. I’m going to try and put some of my neutrals into categories. How much of it is WIFOM? Hard to tell. One person of note and perennial favorite of Normal Phase and me, **MHaye.** It’s safe for Weedy to put a scum buddy of hers on her scum lean list, especially if it looks like he might someday get lynched. I’m concerned that’s confirmation bias talking, since I generally want MHaye lynched, though. She could have put him on there simply to agree with me and Normal. So, long story short, I’m gonna hold off on any action involving realitytrip or Choie until we nab ourselves another scum. I need more data before I feel comfortable actually giving them the town leans they’d earn from Weedy’s casemaking. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2354 "2012-05-03T06:13:12Z")
As I re-read the colour about Weedy, I suddenly thought that she could be the traitor that we have been looking for. She was dressed as a White Mage and yet she was very evil. A White Mage would be a very nice cover for a traitor. Guiri, at first I thought that scum would follow your vote, which I still think could have happened and then later on I thought “What if Guiri is really scum?”. That last thought just kept going around in my head and so I expressed it. Too many “thoughts” in this post and they could all be a load of rubbish. There is something else that I would like to point out, Tanaer and Weedy seemed to be backing each other up as Town, they even spoke on the phone, of course this says nothing about Tanaers role. Does this look like a smudge, perhaps it is but I don’t mean it to come across that way. I also have to say that Tanaer thinks Weedy is a very good player and she couldn’t be absolutely certain that Weedy was Town. I am feeling so uncertain of everything at the moment, the reveals don’t seem to reveal much and if Weedy was just very evil Town then I don’t know… ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2355 "2012-05-03T06:29:09Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > As I re-read the colour about Weedy, I suddenly thought that she could be the traitor that we have been looking for. She was dressed as a White Mage and yet she was very evil. A White Mage would be a very nice cover for a traitor. It worked out pretty well for Saruman. And like him, he had a big bad dude pulling his strings (though I believe he thought he was the one in command). So what’s the story, **Phere**? Was **Weedy** your puppetmaster or your puppet? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2356 "2012-05-03T06:30:20Z")
NETA: **Weedy** ’s a she, dammit. I knew that. Sorry for the pronoun mess-up. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2357 "2012-05-03T12:43:07Z")
**Pizza: I still haven’t received my new role PM. I’d really like to know what new powers I have so I’ve got ample time to consider my day action. Thanks.** ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2358 "2012-05-03T14:29:10Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m okay with all of these modkills. > > Dear town: I think we need more dead bodies for info. It’s increasingly becoming clear to me that this game was balanced around more bloodshed. Might I suggest we start actually combining our attacks on targets? For realsies this time? 😃 Yeah, I think I’m happy to do this, it seems to have been intended to be played that way. Now we just have to find some sort of consensus:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2359 "2012-05-03T14:30:54Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Yeah, I think I’m happy to do this, it seems to have been intended to be played that way. Now we just have to find some sort of consensus:eek: That’s asking for a lot but hopefully we can do it. So far I have only attacked Lord Phere during the Day. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2360 "2012-05-03T15:08:01Z")
There are a couple of ways to tackle this. We could agree to attack the runner-up, and effectively get two lynches. We could start picking off low-profile posters who aren’t in danger of modkill. Or we could follow the lead of someone we suspect to be town. We’ve got some time, what would you guys prefer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=119)