# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 120
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2381 "2012-05-03T21:07:07Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I would rather do an attack that’s decided amongst your buddies (you all have to agree and you trust them). Coming out in the open and saying we will attack XYZ is just not going to work IMHO. If I understand you correctly, you’d prefer an attack decided in secret, with no accountability (or even visibility) to town, leaving no possibility of a claim by the target? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2382 "2012-05-03T21:11:28Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If I understand you correctly, you’d prefer an attack decided in secret, with no accountability (or even visibility) to town, leaving no possibility of a claim by the target? That’s a good argument in favour of the scheme - other methods seem worse. (Also, not necessarily effective, given how many people have died through attacks on their person.) I’d be interested in seeing how you deal with my problems over the additional vote method. (I’m simply going to reject the “attack the second placed player” method.) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2383 "2012-05-03T21:13:22Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > That’s a good argument in favour of the scheme - other methods seem worse. (Also, not necessarily effective, given how many people have died through attacks on their person.) Wait, you think a secret cabal secretly attacking people in secret is a _good thing?!_ ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2384 "2012-05-03T21:16:05Z")
I’m probably not going to attack Lord Phere toDay, for what it’s worth. I’m looking at a few people as candidates, including Believerer and gnarlycharlie. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2385 "2012-05-03T21:23:33Z")
Just piping up to say I’m not sure where I stand on this attack thing, secret or non. The trouble is that not all of us have the same abilities, and for some of us, using an attack may mean losing a skill slot that might also be helpful. And that’s as far as I’ll go in that direction. Very helpful insight, I know; I felt it necessary to post this _incredibly valuable_ contribution lest others think I’m not pulling my weight. In all seriousness, can I ask what is possibly the dumbest question ever, but it’s one that I don’t think has been asked yet and I’d feel like an even bigger fool if it was a worthwhile question but we just didn’t realize it? I know I can’t see y’all but that\* was\* a mutual nodding of your heads, right? Okay, here I go, displaying my dimbulbness to the world! **Normal** and **Visorslash** : Are you able to split your votes? Or does your shadow vote go wherever your first vote goes? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2386 "2012-05-03T21:29:56Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Wait, you think a secret cabal secretly attacking people in secret is a _good thing?!_ My intention was to agree with your criticism, not argue against it. I appear to have some form of gratuitous comment failure. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2387 "2012-05-03T21:30:27Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If I understand you correctly, you’d prefer an attack decided in secret, with no accountability (or even visibility) to town, leaving no possibility of a claim by the target? My first response was YES but I will take my accountability, I asked PizzaMod if Lord Phere could be killed, his answer was, can he be damaged? So were do I go from from there, my question was wrong and YES Lord Phere can be damaged. Take it or leave it. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2388 "2012-05-03T21:39:24Z")
I am sorry, but if we all say “let’s attack Silver Jan” you are going to have yay or nay and scum are going to try and hide behind their wall of silence, of course they are going to vote, if they don’t they are suspects. So actually yes, I prefer a secret attack. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2389 "2012-05-03T21:42:05Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If I understand you correctly, you’d prefer an attack decided in secret, with no accountability (or even visibility) to town, leaving no possibility of a claim by the target? Hey, that’s just the way we roll… I have the same problem with this ‘coordinated attack’ plan that I have with every other plan like it, and that’s that is’ simply not workable. A few other questions: How do we get everybody to agree on a target? If we don’t need \*everybody \*to agree, then how many people do we need to make a target ‘valid’? Since we aren’t told the identity of attackers, how are we going to know who goes along with the ‘Plan’? What consequences will there be for people who don’t want to participate? If the answer to the previous question is ‘None’, then why should I participate in the first place? I have no problem if you (or anyone else) want to lobby for people to attack a particular player, and I have no problem with people stating their intentions to do so in the thread. But I think you’re fooling yourself if you think that we’re going to be able to come to any ‘secondary consensus’. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2390 "2012-05-03T21:57:27Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Hey, that’s just the way we roll… > > I have the same problem with this ‘coordinated attack’ plan that I have with every other plan like it, and that’s that is’ simply not workable. > > A few other questions: > > How do we get everybody to agree on a target? > If we don’t need \*everybody \*to agree, then how many people do we need to make a target ‘valid’? > Since we aren’t told the identity of attackers, how are we going to know who goes along with the ‘Plan’? > What consequences will there be for people who don’t want to participate? > If the answer to the previous question is ‘None’, then why should I participate in the first place? > > I have no problem if you (or anyone else) want to lobby for people to attack a particular player, and I have no problem with people stating their intentions to do so in the thread. But I think you’re fooling yourself if you think that we’re going to be able to come to any ‘secondary consensus’. I cannot see us being a consensus because we are all to self willed, surely we see that in the Lunch. I would say “Let’s attack lord Phere” that is my opinion, the rest of you can do as you wish. I can’t see me attacking a player without evidence that player is scum. No can do. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2391 "2012-05-03T21:58:49Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Hey, that’s just the way we roll… > > I have the same problem with this ‘coordinated attack’ plan that I have with every other plan like it, and that’s that is’ simply not workable. > > A few other questions: > > How do we get everybody to agree on a target? > If we don’t need \*everybody \*to agree, then how many people do we need to make a target ‘valid’? > Since we aren’t told the identity of attackers, how are we going to know who goes along with the ‘Plan’? > What consequences will there be for people who don’t want to participate? > If the answer to the previous question is ‘None’, then why should I participate in the first place? > > I have no problem if you (or anyone else) want to lobby for people to attack a particular player, and I have no problem with people stating their intentions to do so in the thread. But I think you’re fooling yourself if you think that we’re going to be able to come to any ‘secondary consensus’. I cannot see us being a consensus because we are all to self willed, surely we see that in the Lynch. I would say “Let’s attack lord Phere” that is my opinion, the rest of you can do as you wish. I can’t see me attacking a player without evidence that player is scum. No can do. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2392 "2012-05-03T22:12:15Z")
I have been ridiculously busy - sorry for disappearing again. I am also operating under zero time and I couldn’t catch up yet. On Weedy I haven’t just talked on the phone to Weedy. I’ve seen her a couple of times. She was trying hard to convince me of her town-ness. Clearly my reluctance to clear her was coming from somewhere. If she had sigils burned into her - does that mean she might have been controlled in some way? Or just an evil cult member. Her evilness makes me more likely to want to clear Choie, because she really jumped on her after I was voicing my suspicions. And Weedy, if you’re scum, excellent acting points to you. Re the lynch runner-up attack- One idea would be to run a “top 3 scum” (weighted?) tally and see where people actually have their suspicions. This was running through my mind earlier re lynches too. Not so much as a rule, but for info at least. Probably there’s some stupid thing I’ve overlooked in it that someone more experienced will point out, but if you’re interested, I’m happy to do a tally, but given my time limitations, I’d need you to send me your top 3s via PM. I’ll publish it so you can verify, but scanning & rescanning posts isn’t something I’ll have time for. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2393 "2012-05-03T22:31:41Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > I have been ridiculously busy - sorry for disappearing again. I am also operating under zero time and I couldn’t catch up yet. > > On Weedy > > I haven’t just talked on the phone to Weedy. I’ve seen her a couple of times. She was trying hard to convince me of her town-ness. > Clearly my reluctance to clear her was coming from somewhere. If she had sigils burned into her - does that mean she might have been controlled in some way? Or just an evil cult member. > > Her evilness makes me more likely to want to clear Choie, because she really jumped on her after I was voicing my suspicions. > > And Weedy, if you’re scum, excellent acting points to you. > > Re the lynch runner-up attack- > One idea would be to run a “top 3 scum” (weighted?) tally and see where people actually have their suspicions. This was running through my mind earlier re lynches too. Not so much as a rule, but for info at least. Probably there’s some stupid thing I’ve overlooked in it that someone more experienced will point out, but if you’re interested, I’m happy to do a tally, but given my time limitations, I’d need you to send me your top 3s via PM. I’ll publish it so you can verify, but scanning & rescanning posts isn’t something I’ll have time for. So do you think Weedy was scum? You are trying so hard to distance yourself at the moment, sorry Tanear, to me you look scummy too. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2394 "2012-05-03T22:34:57Z")
**Vote Tanear** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2395 "2012-05-03T23:13:59Z")
Choie – double vote, so both in same place. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2396 "2012-05-04T00:09:13Z")
Normal Phase (I almost typed Renata again), are you a mage or a soldier? @ Choie Can’t split it. On the whole secondary vig vote thing I have actually seen that used in games before, to no success. I am in MHaye’s boat here in regards to that. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2397 "2012-05-04T01:49:31Z")
Oh, definitely. **[color]Vote Tanaer[/color]** At lunch today, I was going over my list of suspects, and **Tanaer** kept coming up in my mind. I haven’t been able to put my finger on anything definite, but I know her membership in the **Astral** Lynch Wagon bugged me. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2398 "2012-05-04T01:50:34Z")
Dangit **Vote Tanaer** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2399 "2012-05-04T02:06:16Z")
Visor – soldier side. You? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2400 "2012-05-04T02:06:49Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > So do you think Weedy was scum? You are trying so hard to distance yourself at the moment, sorry Tanear, to me you look scummy too. As I caught up, I saw this as a valid vote. But the wagon building like a house a fire bothers me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=119) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=121)