# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2441 "2012-05-04T17:08:47Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > That’s my point, I think Weedy was a Traitor, so I agree that Weedy and Tanaer weren’t scum together. Do you mean you think **Weedy** was _the_ Traitor? or do you think there are more than one? The color doesn’t seem to indicate that (and yes, I’m into color, guys, so deal with it. :)). In any event, if I’m not 100% sold on **Weedy** being not-Town (as I said, I want to see another “very evil” description alongside fairly dubious behavior before I’m convinced it’s not mere D&D alignment), I’m definitely not sold on her being the Traitor. Whether you’re in the **Astral** camp that believes color is just color, or if you’re in the **choie** camp where color is significant, I think we’ve gotta agree that at **Weedy** ’s death, the narrative would’ve made \*some \*mention of the Traitor’s death, even an oblique mention such as \*“the giant demon roars as its chains go slack at last.” \* OTOH, maybe there is recruitment and **Weedy** ’s loss was someone else’s gain. In other words, maybe after she was killed off, a new Traitor was created. Sort of like someone sitting on the bench being called to take an injured player’s place. … But that doesn’t work either, because then I’d expect the color to read, like, _“the giant demon roars as its chains go slack at last–only to be tightened once again, a new set of cruel hands clutching at these magical bonds.”_ OMG. I think I just wrote fanfic for a Mafia game. Help me! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2442 "2012-05-04T17:18:30Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > … my PM conversations with ToeJam … He said that he had a Neutral win condition (the “amass wealth” thing I talked about however many Days ago) but that he was actively working in favor of the Town and that he was not a PFK; I saw no reason to disbelieve him. > [@LightFoot](#): > > I missed where a third party player had confessed? Or are you equating Neutral to Third Party. Because I don’t think they are the same animal at all. Well, there are three different alignments: Law/Moral/Game, and presumably one could be “Neutral” on any of the three, though I think “Neutral Game Alignment” would be 3rd-Party. Does “Neutral Game alignment” (i.e. “win condition”) correspond with “Neutral Law alignment” and/or “Neutral Moral alignment”? Unclear. But toDay we see: > [@Gadarene](#): > > I got a similar message [to Astral’s]. It STRONGLY implied, if not outright suggested, that changing my alignment will change my goals in this game. With what I know about ToeJam’s win condition as a True Neutral, I interpreted this to mean that changing the good/neutral/evil component of my alignment would change my win condition. You might want to reread what Pizza said again. 🙂 Unless we think Gadarene is lying, shifting one’s moral and/or law alignment may change the alignment. Shift away from good/lawful too far and acquire the Neutral win condition? Shift all the way to Evil and join the Scum team? The claims by Gadarene and Astral seem to conflict. I’d ask each of them to repeat(_) to us exactly what their alignments were when they got the PM about shifting. (_ - I say “repeat” because I think they’ve already told us, but my notes are hopelessly out-of-date and it takes me huge time to search back.) > [@LightFoot](#): > > \*\* I find it equally interesting how some players have reacted to ( or at least acknowledged) my little reveal and some have ignored it. \*\* I had a reaction, but forgot to post it: @ Gnarliecharly : Will you please explain why you visited Normal? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2443 "2012-05-04T17:19:08Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Do you mean you think **Weedy** was _the_ Traitor? or do you think there are more than one? The color doesn’t seem to indicate that (and yes, I’m into color, guys, so deal with it. :)). > > In any event, if I’m not 100% sold on **Weedy** being not-Town (as I said, I want to see another “very evil” description alongside fairly dubious behavior before I’m convinced it’s not mere D&D alignment), I’m definitely not sold on her being the Traitor. Whether you’re in the **Astral** camp that believes color is just color, or if you’re in the **choie** camp where color is significant, I think we’ve gotta agree that at **Weedy** ’s death, the narrative would’ve made \*some \*mention of the Traitor’s death, even an oblique mention such as \*“the giant demon roars as its chains go slack at last.” \* > > OTOH, maybe there is recruitment and **Weedy** ’s loss was someone else’s gain. In other words, maybe after she was killed off, a new Traitor was created. Sort of like someone sitting on the bench being called to take an injured player’s place. > > … But that doesn’t work either, because then I’d expect the color to read, like, _“the giant demon roars as its chains go slack at last–only to be tightened once again, a new set of cruel hands clutching at these magical bonds.”_ > > OMG. I think I just wrote fanfic for a Mafia game. Help me! The colour did give an indication that Weedy could be THE Traitor, she was dressed in the White Mage’s robes and she was very evil. Yep, I was reading the colour and that stood out. On another subject, Visorslash was seen visiting someone, I can’t recall whom at the minute but it was pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2444 "2012-05-04T17:24:35Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Please don’t put words in my mouth, I said I was indecisive and I flipped a coin in my mind and Visorslash came up, he has been pinging me since D1. If I had 2 votes, I would have voted for both of them. I didn’t put words in your mouth. Here’s your direct quote: > [@](#): > > And when I first started writing I was going to vote for Visorslash and at the end I was going to vote Gnarley. But you didn’t vote for gnarly, thus you must have changed your mind. Either way, I think your justification for voting for Visor is weak. Is he your top suspect right now? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2445 "2012-05-04T17:31:32Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I didn’t put words in your mouth. Here’s your direct quote: > > But you didn’t vote for gnarly, thus you must have changed your mind. > > Either way, I think your justification for voting for Visor is weak. Is he your top suspect right now? F… I got it wrong, Gnarly visited someone, oh my failing memory. No actually, after going back and reading **Unvote Visorslash** **Vote Gnarlycharlie** ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2446 "2012-05-04T17:33:29Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > So, **fubbles** , I propose the following. I request that you provide us a sample, on spec, of your work. Tell us what something does. I don’t particularly care what. But do it, for free; show us that you can and will. If you do, and if you report it openly here, then _I_ will volunteer to pay you thereafter, by cash or by deed, for identified items, provided that: (1) you always identify the item publicly; and (2) you identify _only_ items that we discuss openly - no backroom private deals with individual players. for starters, it’s worth noting that I am not offering this service in exchange for gold, as the game mechanics don’t allow for such a transaction. secondly, the majority (yes, I did the math) of active players in this game have either already used my services or are in line to do so. if any of them wishes to come forward publicly, that’s up to them. I might consider publishing a list of what my inspection results have been thus far, with the item description and owner’s name withheld, obviously; but not at your request - I found your proposition insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2447 "2012-05-04T17:34:01Z")
NETA, you took one little part of my post and left out when I said I was indecisive. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2448 "2012-05-04T17:35:23Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > F… I got it wrong, Gnarly visited someone, oh my failing memory. > > No actually, after going back and reading > > Unvote Visorslash > > Vote Gnarlycharlie what just happened here? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2449 "2012-05-04T17:37:38Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > what just happened here? **Jan** flip-flopped so hard it game _me_ whiplash…that’s what happened. I’m just now caught up with the last 24 hours or so of posts. I’ve got a few comments to come. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2450 "2012-05-04T17:42:22Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > what just happened here? I thought it was Visor who had visited someone in the dark of Night until I went and re-read and realised that I was wrong, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2451 "2012-05-04T17:43:18Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > That’s asking for a lot but hopefully we can do it. So far I have only attacked Lord Phere during the Day. Did you attack him every Day? I notice you didn’t mention whether or not you have attacked anyone at Night. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2452 "2012-05-04T17:44:30Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > **Jan** flip-flopped so hard it game _me_ whiplash…that’s what happened. > I’m just now caught up with the last 24 hours or so of posts. I’ve got a few comments to come. Actually, I didn’t flip-flop, didn’t you read the post were I said that if I had 2 votes I would have voted for BOTH of them? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2453 "2012-05-04T17:45:32Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Did you attack him every Day? > > I notice you didn’t mention whether or not you have attacked anyone at Night. I attacked him on D2 only. I did not attack anyone at Night. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2454 "2012-05-04T17:49:35Z")
It sounds like a key charge against **Tanaer** is that he was personal friend of **Weedy** and was chatting with her via phone. If they were Scum together, I doubt they’d have mentioned that. (I’m more worried about secrets Tanaer may have revealed when he was under Weedy’s spell … 😃 Tanaer, perhaps you should now tell us everything that Scum already knows anyway.) I don’t understand the case against **Visorslash** but he’s suffered some damage, so, even if we want him Dead, he may be easy to kill by our Attackers and there’s no need to waste our Lynch on him. I’m more worried about the Players who’ve returned from the Jaws of Hell. Are they still “Good”? If Gadarene is telling the truth, then Astral is likely to be lying. And Guiri seems to me to be lacking in the pro-Town diligence he had during his first life. I need to ensure I have some vote in place, so I’ll temporize with our poor handicapped Zombie: **Vote: Mosier** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2455 "2012-05-04T17:55:48Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > I missed where a third party player had confessed? Or are you equating Neutral to Third Party. Because I don’t think they are the same animal at all. > > @ \*\* Normal \*\* a shared that intel a few posts later. ( did you get excited and not read on?) > > \*\* I find it equally interesting how some players have reacted to ( or at least acknowledged) my little reveal and some have ignored it. \*\* Yeah, i only had a couple of minutes and did’nt read past the interesting bit. @ gad the three votes were put on toejam yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2456 "2012-05-04T17:57:34Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > F… I got it wrong, Gnarly visited someone, oh my failing memory. > > No actually, after going back and reading > > **Unvote Visorslash** > > **Vote Gnarlycharlie** But this is entirely immaterial. You said you were voting Visorslash because he was being unhelpful. You made no mention of visiting people at night in either case. Being wrong about who did what had no bearing on your vote as presented to us **Vote Silver Jan** What was your rationale for voting for Visorslash? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2457 "2012-05-04T17:59:21Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Actually, I didn’t flip-flop, didn’t you read the post were I said that if I had 2 votes I would have voted for BOTH of them? Yeah, but you _don’t_ have two votes. You voted for **Visorslash** , and then as soon as it was pointed out that the content of your post suggested that you were going to do exactly the opposite, you reversed your decision. That’s a flip-flop. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2458 "2012-05-04T18:02:40Z")
Trying to format a vote properly on this keyboard would be an exercise in futility but pencil me in as still highly interested in mhaye, possibly gnarlycharlie, tanaer, plankton, and still having issues with mosiers existence. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2459 "2012-05-04T18:08:06Z")
Read all her posts astral she is not good at explaining herself but she did think visor was who visited me. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2460 "2012-05-04T18:20:03Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Read all her posts astral she is not good at explaining herself but she did think visor was who visited me. This was the only post of Jan’s I could find on that topic: > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > The colour did give an indication that Weedy could be THE Traitor, she was dressed in the White Mage’s robes and she was very evil. Yep, I was reading the colour and that stood out. > > On another subject, Visorslash was seen visiting someone, I can’t recall whom at the minute but it was pointed out. She seemed to recall Visor visiting _someone_; where did she say it was _you_? And as far as I recall, it was actually \*\*Visorslash \*\*that was visited (by **realitytrips** )…according to the PM that \*\*ToeJam \*\*sent **me**. So if that’s the case, Jan voted Visor based on a mistaken recollection of a third-hand Investigation result. Which might explain why she flip-flopped 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=124)