# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 139
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2761 "2012-05-10T15:50:10Z")
I sort of feel like I’m through the looking glass here, in that gnarlycharlie demonstrably lied (the one thing that, y’know, Townies should basically never do as a default), and yet people are making fun of me instead when I dare to point it out and want to examine his motivations for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2762 "2012-05-10T15:53:54Z")
Gad, I wasn’t making fun of you. I though humor might dissolve the tension, but you know how hard tone is to read online. Remember: I agree with you about gnarlycharlie. I questioned Normal about her disagreement with you. I like jokes, but that doesn’t mean I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2763 "2012-05-10T15:57:51Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > gnarlycharlie demonstrably lied (the one thing that, y’know, Townies should basically never do as a default), I disagree that townies should never lie to other townies, but I do agree they should always answer for it. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2764 "2012-05-10T16:03:03Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I disagree that townies should never lie to other townies, but I do agree they should always answer for it. You did that in my little game and it served you well, Town won. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2765 "2012-05-10T16:06:32Z")
I’m not saying NEVER – that’s why I used the phrase “as a default.” But there should at the very least be scrutiny of someone who has lied, and it’s strikingly absent here for the most part, as both Normal and Suburban have somehow completely disclaimed gnarly’s actions while finding ME to be the weird one in that exchange. Which baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2766 "2012-05-10T16:14:21Z")
I think it’s these long twilight periods that are provoking our neurotic impulses. Perhaps, to relieve the tension, we should all join in revolt against Lord Phere and develop our own extrajudicial punishments to vote on during these interludes. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2767 "2012-05-10T16:16:06Z")
On the heels of septimus’s comment, I’d like to point out that Lord Phere actually appears to be starting to show the effects of the damage he’s taken. I still think Phere can be killed, and that killing him would have, on balance, pro-Town effects. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2768 "2012-05-10T16:25:13Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Tomorrow at 5. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > \*\*Night Phase will be extended approximately 10 hours, because I will be doing a closing manager shift at End of Night. Therefore, that’s more time to send in orders for you. > > I will be able to work on the results and advance the round when I get back home, so there shouldn’t be any excessive delays tonight.\*\* Just pointing out – this means that Night will now end at 3AM Friday morning (ET) or (GMT-5) ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2769 "2012-05-10T16:25:34Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > On the heels of septimus’s comment, I’d like to point out that Lord Phere actually appears to be starting to show the effects of the damage he’s taken. > > I still think Phere can be killed, and that killing him would have, on balance, pro-Town effects. I have to agree with you\*\* Gad\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2770 "2012-05-10T16:31:26Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Just pointing out – this means that Night will now end at 3AM Friday morning (ET) or (GMT-5) Yup. Long night is long. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2771 "2012-05-10T16:52:30Z")
I’ve decided De’endee 2 will have 20 minute nights. Good luck, scum team! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2772 "2012-05-10T17:31:33Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > So you’re not Town? > > Why did you contact me to ask me to send you my information, if you weren’t planning on being remotely forthcoming yourself in return? i don’t know your exchange with Pizza but AFAIK game alignment is different from moral or law alignment. if you truly believe that being neutral/neutral means i’m not town, you can’t argue i’m scum either. you can’t have it both ways. > [@storyteller0910](#): > > This is Mafia, not Mazalan. Individual players seeking “advantage” over other individual players is not reflective of a Town attitude. taking advantage is one way at looking at it. don’t town powers who keep quiet about their abilities have an advantage over others? really, what i did was just to see if he might be town. i didn’t actually use anything he said against him. he can be slippery. do you recall a game recently where he was scum? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Gad, I wasn’t making fun of you. I though humor might dissolve the tension, but you know how hard tone is to read online. > > Remember: I agree with you about gnarlycharlie. I questioned Normal about her disagreement with you. I like jokes, but that doesn’t mean I disagree. any reason why you haven’t questioned me? you haven’t reached out to me. what do you think i was doing when i visited **Normal**? she did not experience any ill effects. neither did **Gadarene**. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2773 "2012-05-10T17:49:37Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > On the heels of septimus’s comment, I’d like to point out that Lord Phere actually appears to be starting to show the effects of the damage he’s taken. > > I still think Phere can be killed, and that killing him would have, on balance, pro-Town effects. I disagreed with that position from the start, but given the last writeup, I have to agree. It seems quite clear that Phere is actually being damaged, and I can’t imagine that killing him could possibly be a \*bad \*thing. And even if it’s ultimately fruitless, I’m not sure that continuing to take postshots at each other is going to accomplish much. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2774 "2012-05-10T18:02:36Z")
gnarlycharlie: Are you Town? Answer the question. If so, a followup: do you have any goals for your win condition that differ or diverge from the Town’s goals in any way? (Oh, and by the way: that recent game when I was scum? I played so completely differently than I’m playing here that it’s ridiculous you would use that as an example except to smudge me with “well, he was a Scum recently, so don’t trust him.”) ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2775 "2012-05-10T18:28:02Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > (Oh, and by the way: that recent game when I was scum? I played so completely differently than I’m playing here that it’s ridiculous you would use that as an example except to smudge me with “well, he was a Scum recently, so don’t trust him.”) Are you telling us that you have two wildly different styles of play: one which you use only as Scum and the other which you use only as Town? I will agree that “well, he was a Scum recently, so don’t trust him.” is a stupid argument, but pointing out that you are playing very differently here than you did the last time you were Scum is equally invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2776 "2012-05-10T18:37:11Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Are you telling us that you have two wildly different styles of play: one which you use only as Scum and the other which you use only as Town? > > I will agree that “well, he was a Scum recently, so don’t trust him.” is a stupid argument, but pointing out that you are playing very differently here than you did the last time you were Scum is equally invalid. Predictable response from Suburban is predictable. I seriously could have typed out the first paragraph of your response word-for-word before you did, and I knew you’d be chiming in as quick as you could to make it, too. Some points: (1) Actually, I do sort of have wildly different styles of play as Scum and Town in many respects, yeah. If the forum that I normally frequent was up and running, I could give you many examples of each and you could see the differences for yourself. As it is, I invite you to compare how I played in Arkham to how I played here, and tell me that they’re substantively similar in any way. (2) I only brought it up to point out that gnarlycharlie’s comment about me being “slippery” is a non sequitur, without additional elaboration on his part about how I was “slippery” in the Arkham game and how that game has any bearing on this game. (3) So there. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2777 "2012-05-10T19:25:30Z")
A couple of comments. 1. First off, Gad, you might be thinking that people aren’t calling Gnarlycharlie onto the carpet for lying because they don’t care. However, I offer the hypothesis that they DO care, but they DO NOT wish to talk about it at Night. If 3 or 4 people start agreeing about a particular player’s scumminess at night, it could paint a target onto their backs. So, you may have people willing to subscribe to your newsletter, but aren’t willing to stand up and say, “Yo, hey … over here!” 2. If we had known that the nights were going to be so long, we could have started another Mafia game inside of this one. Wouldn’t that have raised the confusion factor exponentially? 3. Hi, Opal! ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2778 "2012-05-10T19:29:08Z")
I appreciate all three of your points, Bob. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2779 "2012-05-10T19:32:44Z")
Can you imagine a game inside a game, FUN lol ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2780 "2012-05-10T19:41:35Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Can you imagine a game inside a game, FUN lol It’s actually been done in games I’ve played on my other forum. For example, a new thread is started for a nine-person “turbo” game, where day/night cycles are twenty minutes long, and the winners get rewarded with one-time powers and the like, regardless of what team they’re on in the main game. Some creative stuff out there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=138) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=140)