# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 146
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2901 "2012-05-13T20:01:19Z")
talk about high handed Believe me or don’t I’m playng the game. I won’t really die if I get killed. why in the hades have games gotten pissy of late We are typing at each other (well and lynching people) but ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2902 "2012-05-13T20:02:36Z")
NETA damn computer \*\* charlie \*\* claimed to be a watcher. I do not think he could have gotten to archer/killer since that claim. Thimk ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2903 "2012-05-13T22:26:36Z")
The most obvious conclusion is that gnarly is scum, and that he killed Gadarene. **Vote Gnarlycharlie** More coming later. It’s a holiday, after all! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2904 "2012-05-14T00:50:16Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > … \*\* gnarlycharlie \*\* visited \*\* gad \*\* last Night and Gad is dead… what y’all think? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > The most obvious conclusion is that gnarly is scum, and that he killed Gadarene. Having perused the thread, there seems little information for Town to go on, apart from the circumstances of the first lynch and this Watcher report. Gnarlycharlie, did you visit Gadarene? Have you any explanation? P.S. I previously suggested we attack Lord Phere, but have now been told by the highest authority that this would be an evil act. That would not suit my future promotion plans, so I withdraw the suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2905 "2012-05-14T01:02:42Z")
Gah, I hate having the end of Night happen so late in the real-life week; when the first part of the Day takes place mostly over the weekend I wind up getting behind _every Day_. Oh, well. Right now I think my biggest frustration is the level of one-on-one, via-personal-message, cloak-and-dagger stuff that’s happening right now. In the last Day or so we’ve had: 1. **choie** with her Top Secret Reason that Normal Phase is Probably Town, which (I think) still hasn’t been shared and which choie for some reason was going to tell to one other person, which gee hopefully that person doesn’t get killed or isn’t Scum… bleh… 2. **Normal Phase** clearly having many extracurricular conversations, such that half of what gets posted in the game thread feels like the tail end of a conversation that happened while the rest of us were out of the room… 3. Any number of other private conversations obviously still happening, all over the damn place… 4. and then this, from **Suburban Plankton** : > [@](#): > > Did you forget what game you’re playing? This is Mafia, not Kindergarten. “Playing nice” and “sharing” are not exactly the pillars upon which our community is built. > > I would assume that gnarlycharlie was trying to gain or keep whatever advantage over you he could, which is the smart play. Why you seem so hurt that he wouldn’t “play nice” is a source of much confusion, and a little amusement, to me. Oh, how much this all bothers me. Look, everyone is entitled to play as they please. But this is not Mazalan. The private, secretive communication is creating a ton of static; it’s much harder to search for people who might know more than a Townie should when _everyone_ knows more than a Townie should. I keep coming back to that quote, above, from Plankton. “Playing nice” and “sharing” _are_, in fact, the pillars on which successful Town play is built. Sharing cautiously, yes. Sharing judiciously, yes. But _sharing._ Recognizing that the majority of people in the game are your team-mates, and trying to function accordingly. That line about **charly** trying to gain and keep an “advantage” over another player… no. I just can’t see that as a perspective that a Town player would have. That’s not what this game _is_. Well, not for Town, anyway. **vote Suburban Plankton** ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2906 "2012-05-14T01:08:25Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > talk about high handed I admit that posts that try to be reasonable and take a considered look at the situation, as well as those that use more than twenty words, _are_ kinda high-handed. It’s a failing of mine. > [@LightFoot](#): > > I won’t really die if I get killed. _ **Um, can I get a referee call on this statement please? Seriously, what does this mean? This is pretty much the most curious comment of the entire game so far.** _ (Also the unwisest. You really want to challenge the evil folks to take you at your word?) > [@LightFoot](#): > > why in the hades have games gotten pissy of late Hey, you started it! (How’s that for reasonable? :D) Seriously, all I did was consider the possibility that **gnarlycharlie** may have thought **Gad** was scum. And suddenly I’m on the equivalent of Nixon’s Enemies List. You smudge me (and by extention **Silver Jan** and **Normal** ), say **Normal** and I are not trustworthy, and end with a flounce that you don’t care what I think. So who’s the pissy one in this scenario? I would appreciate your opinion on my hypothetical, please. It is in every way a parallel to the current situation with **gnarlycharlie**. BTW, why should we look on you voting for **Mosier** (flipped Town) and the sudden addition of those pain-in-the-ass three mystery votes to clinch the deal as anything but suspicious? Are you working with Phere? Can you prove you’re \*not, \*hmmm? (I’m not seriously accusing you of anything. Just making a point that that’s what you sound like to me.) ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2907 "2012-05-14T01:09:24Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Having perused the thread, there seems little information for Town to go on, apart from the circumstances of the first lynch and this Watcher report. > > Gnarlycharlie, > > did you visit Gadarene? > Have you any explanation? > > P.S. I previously suggested we attack Lord Phere, but have now been told by the highest authority that this would be an evil act. > That would not suit my future promotion plans, so I withdraw the suggestion. Attacking anyone is an unlawful act. But you don’t have to change your alignment, you’re not forced to. SO I advise attacking Phere. And I advise a lynch of Gnarly. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2908 "2012-05-14T01:12:57Z")
> [@choie](#): > > _ **Um, can I get a referee call on this statement please? Seriously, what does this mean? This is pretty much the most curious comment of the entire game so far.** _ > > (Also the unwisest. You really want to challenge the evil folks to take you at your word?) I think Lightfoot means “won’t die in real life.” I kind of hope that’s a true fact 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2909 "2012-05-14T01:30:10Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Gah, I hate having the end of Night happen so late in the real-life week; when the first part of the Day takes place mostly over the weekend I wind up getting behind _every Day_. Oh, well. > > Right now I think my biggest frustration is the level of one-on-one, via-personal-message, cloak-and-dagger stuff that’s happening right now. Frankly, I agree with you. Since finally shrugging off my reservations about taking part in the PM conversations in the past few days, apparently certain confidences, particularly aspects of my role, have been shared by my trustworthy PMers to everyone in the game. I’m sure some of them meant well. But exactly why people think I gave tacit permission to share confidences with half the known universe, I have no idea. The person who reached out to me in the first place may have thought the person s/he told was trustworthy, but apparently this wasn’t the case. “Oh, I’ll just tell X and Y, they’re definitely Town!” And now X and Y’s judgement must be relied upon. It’s crazy. I literally do not know where my head was at when I gave up my “no off-board communications” dictum. I’ve hated this off-board crap from Day One and I wish I’d never become part of it. And now look, aside from my role being shared right and left, I’m also being tarred by **LightFoot** for having apparently betrayed her because OMG she like totally agreed to speak to me via PM after **Silver Jan** gave me cred but now 'cause I’m disagreeing with her I’ve proven how much I suck so now she’s throwing a virtual slushie in my face. It’s bullshit childish, inner-circle, backstabbing nonsense. Re: my theory on **Normal**. All I said was that I wanted one more Day to verify my suspicions about what’s going on with **Normal** and why I think she’s Town. Give me until EOD (Tuesday), that’s all I asked. At this point, considering how the gossip circle can’t keep its collective mouth shut, I’m not entrusting anyone with this idea. Considering there are still, what, 20 or so players? It’s not exactly as if **Normal** needs to be first on the chopping block. You can give me a couple of RL days, right? > [@](#): > > Oh, how much this all bothers me. Look, everyone is entitled to play as they please. But this is not Mazalan. The private, secretive communication is creating a ton of static; it’s much harder to search for people who might know more than a Townie should when _everyone_ knows more than a Townie should. Bloody hell, this is the nth time that “Mazalan” has been mentioned and I still don’t know what the heck it means. Not that it matters. I think **pizzaguy** got exactly what he wanted – a game filled with chaos, confusion and infighting. I have _no_ idea why the off-board conversations were allowed in this game. It makes _everyone_ look scummish. I suppose now that the genie’s out of the bottle there’s no point in this, but I’m saying now that as far as I’m concerned, take me off your PM lists. If you wanna talk about stuff other than the game, sure, that’s cool, but otherwise, I’m opting out. To the person I trusted, this is _not_ a slight or smudge on you. I just think you trusted the wrong people, and too many of them, and forgot to take human nature into account. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2910 "2012-05-14T01:32:48Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I think Lightfoot means “won’t die in real life.” > > I kind of hope that’s a true fact 🙂 Oh God, duh – you’re probably right. With a zombie walking around, talking of “not really dying if I get killed” is an actual possibility in this weirdo game setup, so that’s where my mind went. 🙂 But that’s probably what s/he was trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2911 "2012-05-14T01:40:58Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Oh God, duh – you’re probably right. With a zombie walking around, talking of “not really dying if I get killed” is an actual possibility in this weirdo game setup, so that’s where my mind went. 🙂 But that’s probably what s/he was trying to say. She I believe. IIRC, When weedy died, wasn’t there runes or stuff? Necromantic abilities maybe? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2912 "2012-05-14T03:38:13Z")
I needed this, so I figured I’d post it to make life easier for everyone: End of Day 1 - 379 End of Night 1 - 753 End of Day 2 - 1591 End of Night 2 - 1758 End of Day 3 - 2195 End of Night 3 - 2277 End of Day 4 - 2635 End of Night 4 - 2801 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2913 "2012-05-14T03:49:45Z")
Now: Gadarene is the first person I’ve seen that is explicitly mentioned as being killed by someone other than Phere. The exact wording is: “Gadarene is slain outright by a skilled assailant with a bladed weapon.” So, that would _seem_ to indicate gnarlycharlie is vig of some flavor, since no other nightkill has gotten such a writeup before. Gnarlycharlie, why did you decide to kill Gadarene? I took a quick glance at your voting history, and it appears you have never once voted for Gadarene. Why decide to kill him now? * * * On an unrelated note, I’d like to reiterate what I said to Gadarene via PM and had him quote into the thread: I believe Mosier may be a threat to town. I’d like for us to discuss this possibility. He was explicitly raised by Phere, and my interpretation of Phere is that he’s a color representation of the actions taken by the forces arrayed against us. Given that, and also given that _if_ gnarlycharlie isn’t scum, that would suggest that Askthepizzaguy is only using Phere for scum and PFK actions. Gnarlycharlie’s action, again IF he isn’t scum, was separate and distinct from Phere. With this hypothesis, we can assume that Mosier’s resurrection is a bad thing for town. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2914 "2012-05-14T04:58:16Z")
\*\*Vote Gnarlycharlie \*\* Since there’s evidence Phere takes damage, I’d like to see if we could really put the hurt on him. If we manage to eliminate or contain phere and mosier suffers some sort of setback, I’d be willing to sign on to your theory. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2915 "2012-05-14T06:06:58Z")
\*\*\*“I’d really like to see you try, maggots.” _ **-IC-** _ * * * ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2916 "2012-05-14T07:29:22Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I didn’t prioritize well enough to give point by point arguments, but I have some things to say about a few people: > > gnarlycharlie: You’ve said over and over again how you’re a slow starter, but it’s well past the beginning of the game now, and without exception your votes have been weak. Your argument that you did no harm to me by your visit on night two is sort of irrelevant – you could be what you say you are an still be scum, or you could be some kind of scum investigator or even roleblocker if there are any, since I’d never have known. And further – and I wish you’d been asked about this directly before now – there’s plenty of possible motivation for a scum watcher to visit me, and on that night in particular. I’d just been attacked and fended off that attack with color that suggested I had no idea why. In other words, it could hypothetically have been some form of invisible protection coming from another player. One would presume that scum would have some interest in who that might be. Arguing against that idea is that Lightfoot is still alive. But regardless you could have visited me for enough reasons that the lack of harm to me on that night is no more a tell in your favor than the point I contested with Gadarene is one against you (IMO). The fact still remains that your votes are not good and your “slow starter” thing hasn’t been an excuse for a while. > > You (and Lightfoot for that matter) – both need to discuss why you chose each of your targets. unfortunately, i have limited access to the internet since we moved. i can only access from a cafe or in school. i may have connection this coming week which may be moot as i might be dead by then. 😛 i watched both you and Gadarene because you were players of interest on the Days preceding those Nights. players i would see watching either of you would likely be Town. so, i kept quiet about **Lightfoot**. whether she was there to watch, investigate or roleblock you, she was likely town. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > After thinking long and hard about this, I have decided to > > Unvote Visorslash > > and > > vote gnarlycharlie > > Yes **gnarly** , I do know your playing style and you are pinging the hell out of me. **Gad \*\* was very open about trying to lynch you and what do you know,** Gad \*\*is dead. You said very openly that you love the way we can talk off board in this game and yet you haven’t bothered to say anything to me. I have been chatting a lot off board and I have some people that I trust implicitly. I am waiting for the fallout for my vote but I think some others will back me up with more info than I have. i have explained already my internet issues. however i will say that i am not obliged to privately communicate with you. i have been trying to stay updated but it’s very difficult. i may be dead soon but unfortunately i don’t think it will improve my play time. you know, i would have replied to you if you PMed me but you haven’t. the little time i have to be online, i try to catch up and reply to people who have bothered to communicate with me. i’m sorry if i haven’t gone out of my way to satisfy your desire to be communicated with. :rolleyes: > [@Visorslash](#): > > Unvote Vote: Gnarlycharlie > 🙇‍♂️ nice! > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > The most obvious conclusion is that gnarly is scum, and that he killed Gadarene. > > Vote Gnarlycharlie > > More coming later. It’s a holiday, after all! 😃 ## uhm, no. does the color sound like a scum kill? just because most players think you’re town, it doesn’t mean you have to be lazy with your thinking. the reason **Gadarene** is dead is because i did kill him. i am no longer a watcher. i now have the ability to kill. so why did i kill him? it’s quite simple. he was attacking me. i would be dead if weren’t for someone healing me. continued attacks would kill me. while **Astral** also admitted to attacking me, he was more likely to be town than **Gadarene**. i was preserving myself and hoping he was scum also. if i weren’t being attacked i would have started taking out lurkers. if i were scum, wouldn’t taking out **Astral** or maybe **Lightfoot** a better choice? don’t tell me it’s one of those WIFOM about scum wouldn’t do that so they did it. i assume there will be a lot of comments and questions but i will likely be offline until the same time tomorrow (my time). ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2917 "2012-05-14T13:21:48Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > Attacking anyone is an unlawful act. But you don’t have to change your alignment, you’re not forced to. > > SO I advise attacking Phere. And I advise a lynch of Gnarly. 1. In post 2 of this thread, we are told: “During the day or night, you may perform an action which affects the karma of your character. Good or lawful actions may shift you in that direction, unlawful or violent actions may shift you in the other direction.” How do you know your alignment isn’t forcibly changed? 1. Askthepizzaguy has told me that attacking Lord Phere (or any other violent aggressive act) is evil. Why do you say it’s unlawful? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2918 "2012-05-14T13:38:24Z")
> [@glee](#): > > 1. In post 2 of this thread, we are told: > > “During the day or night, you may perform an action which affects the karma of your character. Good or lawful actions may shift you in that direction, unlawful or violent actions may shift you in the other direction.” > > How do you know your alignment isn’t forcibly changed? > > 1. Askthepizzaguy has told me that attacking Lord Phere (or any other violent aggressive act) is evil. > Why do you say it’s unlawful? GuiriEnEspana and I have both been offered a chance to change our alignments as a result of our actions. This was an entirely voluntary choice. I ignored it, opting to stay my current alignment so I can see the much-vaunted beast master role. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2919 "2012-05-14T13:42:41Z")
No laziness here, gnarlycharlie. You being scum was the most obvious thought to me at the time, but then I went and dug up all the write ups, noticed your kill was the only one of its kind, and built a new hypothesis on why Mosier may be dangerous. I just haven’t decided who next to vote for, or if my vote will stay. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2920 "2012-05-14T14:51:01Z")
> [@glee](#): > > 1. In post 2 of this thread, we are told: > > “During the day or night, you may perform an action which affects the karma of your character. Good or lawful actions may shift you in that direction, unlawful or violent actions may shift you in the other direction.” > > How do you know your alignment isn’t forcibly changed? > > 1. Askthepizzaguy has told me that attacking Lord Phere (or any other violent aggressive act) is evil. > Why do you say it’s unlawful? ATPG said it isn’t/ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=145) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=147)