# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 147
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2921 "2012-05-14T16:05:55Z")
Sorry folks…busy weekend. Happy belated Mother’s Day to all (where applicable) > [@storyteller0910](#): > > 1. and then this, from **Suburban Plankton** : > > > [@](#): > > > > Did you forget what game you’re playing? This is Mafia, not Kindergarten. “Playing nice” and “sharing” are not exactly the pillars upon which our community is built. > > > > I would assume that gnarlycharlie was trying to gain or keep whatever advantage over you he could, which is the smart play. Why you seem so hurt that he wouldn’t “play nice” is a source of much confusion, and a little amusement, to me. > > Oh, how much this all bothers me. Look, everyone is entitled to play as they please. But this is not Mazalan. The private, secretive communication is creating a ton of static; it’s much harder to search for people who might know more than a Townie should when _everyone_ knows more than a Townie should. > > I keep coming back to that quote, above, from Plankton. “Playing nice” and “sharing” _are_, in fact, the pillars on which successful Town play is built. Sharing cautiously, yes. Sharing judiciously, yes. But _sharing._ Recognizing that the majority of people in the game are your team-mates, and trying to function accordingly. That line about **charly** trying to gain and keep an “advantage” over another player… no. I just can’t see that as a perspective that a Town player would have. That’s not what this game _is_. > > Well, not for Town, anyway. > > **vote Suburban Plankton** I was just plain tired of hearing \*\*Gadarene \*\*complain. I had engaged him when he kept insisting that I was lying about why I voted for him, then I kept my mouth shut through all of his “the Modding sucks in this game; I’d so such a better job” complaints, and then couldn’t keep silent when he kept complaining about how \*\*gnarly \*\*wasn’t playing fair. I shouldn’t have said anything, because it had nothing to do with the game itself, but it was starting to impact my enjoyment of the game. So to make myself feel better, I enaged Gad and got my own digs in. It was wrong, because it was completely OOG., and that’s all I have to say about that. I will, however, comment on my statement about gnarly possible wanting an “advantage”. You state that is an anti-Town position. That’s probably true…if you believe that person in question is Town. If you think they’re Scum, then I think it would be a natural position to take: after all, they’re the ‘bad guys’, and Town needs every advantage they can get. And since gnarly \*killed \*Gad, I think it’s safe to say he thought Gad was Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2922 "2012-05-14T16:16:48Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Any townie voting for Visorslash should recall his state of being down a solid 500 hp and organize a vig posse instead. His would very nearly be a wasted lynch, since by this point probably another 3 or 4 hits would finish him off. Do you think \*\*Visorslash \*\*has 800-900 HP, or are you assuming he will be healed somewhere along the line? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2923 "2012-05-14T16:24:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > The short version of my above message: > > It says Townies _can turn_ Evil, while saying that Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic _can be_ Townies. There’s a difference between the two, IMHO. Several thousand posts ago saw this brief exchange: > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > > [@ToeJam](#): > > > > \*\*Is there a possibility of Recruitment in this game? \*\* > > There will be no involuntary alignment shifts/team switches. Though there was no direct answer to the original question, the reply suggests to me that it is indeed possible to switch Game Alignment (Town/Scum/Other). > [@LightFoot](#): > > New thought ( hoopy will love this) > Given the " reveals" what if there isn’t really a Scum Team? not off board or aware of each? > > If we are cast in a sea with a mod that slaps us around with the Lord Phere character. a really awesome character study > > too much? yeah probably. going to take my beverage maninated head to bed now. I believe it was made quite clear in the setup that there was a ‘Traitor’ who was controlling/controlled by Phere. Whether or not that person carries the ‘Scum’ tag, they certainly fit the role. I think the implied existence of Alignment changes suggests that players can, of their own volition, choose to follow the ‘Dark Side’ and join Phere and his compatriots. What does that all mean? Heckifiknow. I was hopeful when Weedy turned up as a “Very Evil White Mage” that he was in fact the Traitor, and that his death would mark a turning point in the game. In particular, I was hopeful that the Triple Vote threat might die with him. But it seems that either he was not the Traitor, or he had an ‘Apprentice’, or the Triple Vote comes from some other source (possibly one of the groups from a neighboring Nation). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2924 "2012-05-14T18:46:07Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > GuiriEnEspana and I have both been offered a chance to change our alignments as a result of our actions. This was an entirely voluntary choice. Did you just disclose these facts here for the first time, or did I miss this upthread? There was mention earlier that you were _not_ offered the change. Did the opportunity come later? (I _really_ wish “View posts by” worked here as it does at Proboards. As is, I find it almost impossible to search through the thread to get answers. Maybe a clever search term would let me get answers via SDMB’s own search, but I’m afraid I’ll punch a hole in my laptop screen next time I see “requires you to wait 120 seconds.”) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2925 "2012-05-14T18:52:11Z")
I’m still sulking but at least I can be useful here: > [@septimus](#): > > (I _really_ wish “View posts by” worked here as it does at Proboards. As is, I find it almost impossible to search through the thread to get answers. Maybe a clever search term would let me get answers via SDMB’s own search, but I’m afraid I’ll punch a hole in my laptop screen next time I see “requires you to wait 120 seconds.”) 1. Go to the Games Room main page 2. Look at the Mafia: Realm of Phere thread; in the column to the right, you’ll see the number of responses is a link. 3. Click link. You’ll see a popup with all the people who’ve posted in the thread. To the right you’ll see a number that indicates how many times they’ve posted. That too is a link. 4. Click link. Get all posts by that person. 5. Profit… by your new knowledge! _/sulking mode re-engaged_ ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2926 "2012-05-14T19:31:39Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I’m still sulking but at least I can be useful here: > > 1. Go to the Games Room main page > 2. Look at the Mafia: Realm of Phere thread; in the column to the right, you’ll see the number of responses is a link. > 3. Click link. You’ll see a popup with all the people who’ve posted in the thread. To the right you’ll see a number that indicates how many times they’ve posted. That too is a link. > 4. Click link. Get all posts by that person. > 5. Profit… by your new knowledge! Thank you! This is better than what I was doing, but either way I only see the first line or two of each of Astral’s 274 posts in the thread, and I have to guess which ones to click on. At Proboards, the _complete posts_ will appear, 100 to a page if desired. > [@choie](#): > > _/sulking mode re-engaged_ Sorry you’re sulking. I’d PM you some cheer, but you never answered the one PM I sent you a month ago. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2927 "2012-05-14T19:45:38Z")
First, no one thanked **Astral** for his list of EOD/EON posts, which is very helpful, so please know your work is indeed appreciated! Now to clarify something that’s bugged me since the last EON. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Now: Gadarene is the first person I’ve seen that is explicitly mentioned as being killed by someone other than Phere. The exact wording is: “Gadarene is slain outright by a skilled assailant with a bladed weapon.” Though we know **Gnarly** killed **Gadarene** I think we need to be careful about the color, particularly for that Night. Remember, **pizzaguy** said he’d written the whole thing out and it got erased, so he was working quickly and from memory, and I think some of the descriptions are off. Mine in particular was very misleading and it’s bothered me since that Dawn. **Guiri** specifically asked me about this: > [@Night 4 Color](#): > > Choie is not surprised by an attack, and shielded by darkness. However, the shield does not work and she takes 100hp damage anyway. Not surprisingly from the way it’s worded, **Guiri** thought this meant I’d not only expected the attack but I also shielded myself by darkness, almost as if I’d attacked myself. So I’m going to ask **pizzaguy** _in public_\* to confirm that this was _not_ the case: **Askthepizzaguy: Can you please confirm that I did NOT shield myself, but rather someone else did it for me (unsuccessfully, alas)?** It’s a small issue and I’m sure most of you have forgotten all about it, but I don’t like the implication and I just wanted to get the record straight. - Yes, in public. Some of these rule clarifications and revelations that people claim come from private talks with **askthepizzaguy** are really starting to rankle. Why would a Townsperson ask a private question only to then reveal the answer later? More to the point, _why should we believe anything that anyone claims to come from **pizzaguy** unless it’s from the Man himself?!_ Am I seriously the only person who thinks this is utterly suspicious and scummy? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2928 "2012-05-14T19:48:07Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Sorry you’re sulking. I’d PM you some cheer, but you never answered the one PM I sent you a month ago. ☹ Sorry, that was when I was in cloaking mode. (Separate from sulking mode, though I can engage both systems simultaneously.) I only wish I’d stayed that way! Would’a saved me a lot of agita. And you’re right about the annoyance of only seeing one or two lines of the posts during “who posted” searches. I do wish it were more flexible in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2929 "2012-05-14T20:00:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Did you just disclose these facts here for the first time, or did I miss this upthread? There was mention earlier that you were _not_ offered the change. Did the opportunity come later? I discuss it here: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I was offered the chance to switch to neutral/neutral in alignment toDay. If town wants, I can switch and report back what, if anything, changes about me. This would screw up my dreams of being a Beastmaster, but it could yield information. And here: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > As for what I meant by chance: Askthepizzaguy said to me “you can switch your alignment now, if you want.” Like everything else about my role, I then immediately reported that to town. And here: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’ve attacked someone every day. Pizza has already said actions affect your alignment. And here: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > For the record: I’m staying neutral/good. I really wanna see what the Beastmaster role can do. Nobody, least of all me, suggested I was not offered a chance to switch alignments. I was wrong about one thing, though: it was Gadarene, not GuiriEnEspana, who mentioned also being offered a chance to switch. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2930 "2012-05-14T20:11:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Though we know **Gnarly** killed **Gadarene** I think we need to be careful about the color, particularly for that Night. 3 kills were directly attributed to Phere, as usual. One wasn’t. I don’t see how Pizza could have done that by accident. > [@](#): > > - Yes, in public. Some of these rule clarifications and revelations that people claim come from private talks with **askthepizzaguy** are really starting to rankle. Why would a Townsperson ask a private question only to then reveal the answer later? More to the point, _why should we believe anything that anyone claims to come from **pizzaguy** unless it’s from the Man himself?!_ Am I seriously the only person who thinks this is utterly suspicious and scummy? No, you’re right that quotes coming from PMs are suspect. Can you point to any in particular? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2931 "2012-05-14T20:21:36Z")
> [@Astral Rejection](#): > > No, you’re right that quotes coming from PMs are suspect. Can you point to any in particular? Will do. **glee** and **Visorslash** are the offenders: > [@glee](#): > > P.S. I previously suggested we attack Lord Phere, but have now been told by the highest authority that this would be an evil act. > That would not suit my future promotion plans, so I withdraw the suggestion. > [@glee](#): > > 1. Askthepizzaguy has told me that attacking Lord Phere (or any other violent aggressive act) is evil. Why do you say it’s unlawful? > [@Visorslash](#): > > ATPG said it isn’t/ In fairness to **Visorslash** , his implied personal whisper-in-his-ear from **pizzaguy** , with no quotes to back it up, may simply be his usual, um, terse self and tendency to talk in shortcuts. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2932 "2012-05-14T20:39:11Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I discuss it here: > And here: > And here: > And here: > > Nobody, least of all me, suggested I was not offered a chance to switch alignments. I was wrong about one thing, though: it was Gadarene, not GuiriEnEspana, who mentioned also being offered a chance to switch. I guess I wasn’t clear. Let me try again. There are **Four (4)** different alignments and a Win Condition shown in my Role PM and, I’ll guess, most role PMs. All of the posts you’ve just linked to, AFAICT, refer only to Law Alignment and Moral Alignment. You mention neither Game Alignment nor Win Condition. Now please consider the following post by Gadarene, with my underlining added. > [@Gadarene](#): > > I’m Lawful Good and have been Lawful Good for the duration of the game. At the beginning of the Day I received a message stating that I had been sufficiently active that I could opt to change my alignment to either Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good. The message also warned that changing my moral alignment (i.e., the good/neutral/evil component of my alignment) would change my goals in the game. Using what I know from ToeJam about his win condition and his True Neutral alignment, I interpret this to mean that if my moral alignment changes, my win condition changes in some way. This post by Gadarene was in response to _my_ query about prior posts by Gadarene and Astral, pointing out the discrepancy: Astral never mentions being warned of a possible change in game goals. Note that Gadarene was considering only a change away from Good & Lawful, so it’s not like he was halfway to the “Dark Side” already. My relevant post (#2454) was in part [QUOTE=septimus] I’m more worried about the Players who’ve returned from the Jaws of Hell. Are they still “Good”? If Gadarene is telling the truth, then Astral is likely to be lying… [/QUOTE] This dialog continued: another response by me, another by Gadarene. And never a comment on the matter from **Astral Rejection**. Do you see my confusion? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2933 "2012-05-14T20:51:43Z")
I have only ever been talking about law and moral alignment, not game alignment. You asked if I just disclosed “this fact,” and I pointed out I have always been talking about the same thing. The answer is no, I didn’t just disclose it. The confusion stems from you and I using “alignment” to mean different alignments. I agree, terminology could be clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2934 "2012-05-14T20:55:49Z")
Now, to go one step further: Gadarene’s PM said that if he changed law or moral alignment, he could change game alignments as well. Mine did not. That’s why there’s a brief conversation between Gad and I talking past each other. He and I took it to PMs to hash out the discrepancy, and it appeared to us that he got roughly the same PM as me, but with an addendum about changing game alignments. I have no idea why my PM didn’t have such a section. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2935 "2012-05-14T20:56:17Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > The confusion stems from you and I using “alignment” to mean different alignments. That’s the _minor_ confusion. The _ **major** _ confusion is why Gadarene was warned of a win-condition change and you, allegedly, were not. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2936 "2012-05-14T20:59:14Z")
Don’t know what to tell you. I haven’t gotten a new PM from pizza yet, either, although I should be a beast master by now. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2937 "2012-05-14T21:11:51Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Don’t know what to tell you. I haven’t gotten a new PM from pizza yet, either, although I should be a beast master by now. Whatever. Look at the dates of my query posts and then Google for the definition of “response in a timely fashion.” ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2938 "2012-05-14T21:20:36Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > To which I say bah. That’s a nice summary of my posts and all but you’re not really pointing out what you think is actually scummy about any of it. > > The inital ping in [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14965443&postcount=1131](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14965443&postcount=1131) I could kind of understand, I hadn’t been around much and hell, I don’t think I’ve ever been in a game with you where you haven’t found me scummy. But since the raise, the complete lack of looking at other players and the easy reiteration of the same old vote? Do I need to explicitly state what’s scummy about not getting your hands dirty in any of the lynch discussions? About having double standards? About laying low but popping up to comment on a single item? About not responding to or even commenting on a WoW? And yes, you’re right, I really shouldn’t vote for the same person two Days in a row, especially if they aren’t lynched the first time round, no matter how scummy I find them… I think you’re scum and would like to see you lynched toDay. I suspect you were behind my death and I’d like to see you pay for that and so have a certain passion about this vote that has not wavered. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2939 "2012-05-14T21:23:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Whatever. Look at the dates of my query posts and then Google for the definition of “response in a timely fashion.” I don’t know what you’re getting at. You posted it today at 1:46, I responded today at 3:00. If you’re referring to the post where you suggest I’m lying, no question was directly asked of me. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2940 "2012-05-14T21:28:55Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If you’re referring to the post where you suggest I’m lying, no question was directly asked of me. > [septimus changed font size] :smack: :smack: 😕 😕 :smack: 😕 :smack: :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=146) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=148)