# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 149
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2961 "2012-05-15T00:28:23Z")
I’m going to **vote Mosier** for not really being a zombie – I think his last post was a dead (if you’ll pardon the pun) giveaway – and for having been resurrected by Phere, and thus IMHO likely having changed from good to evil (scum). I didn’t think about it before but the fact that Phere/scum placed three votes on **Mosier** to specifically circumvent the regular lynching process means that Phere/scum had other plans for **Mosier** , and gave him the opportunity to change alignments when he was down in Tartarus or Hell or wherever the evil dead do dwell. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2962 "2012-05-15T00:29:36Z")
Just one more comment about the alignment stuff. Astral’s options seemed to be one step towards evil or one step toward chaos, which fits with the attacking being chaotic or evil that my new role PM seems to state. No doubt Pizza will clear this up at some point but I’m more comfortable having a very likely scenario that seems to stand up. Zomo is bothering me. If things done by Phere are inherently scummy, he looks bad, and he seems to be trying to deflect from that. I’m very dubious about GnarlyCharlie. I get vigilantism. I don’t know if I condone it, especially for a retaliatory attack more than trying to get rid of scum. He could have at least asked for protection before killing off another townie. Gadarene was trying to get lynch support on Suburban and Charlie without much luck, so I guess he went for the attack option. Infighting really sucks when we have an enemy this big. So, Are we going to risk our mortal souls and attack the demon? I think willpower would win out against the dark side if we are pure of intention. (But are we going to risk the slim possibility that we would kill the king in the process?!!) I thought attacking the demon was the way to go - until I thought of the king issue. I still think the likelihood is that the king is gone, so it’s _probably_ still a decent option. But I’ve planted doubt in my own mind and would love town feedback on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2963 "2012-05-15T00:30:54Z")
Heh, Choie - you voted Mosier while I was writing my post about doubting him! ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2964 "2012-05-15T00:34:00Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > I thought attacking the demon was the way to go - until I thought of the king issue. I still think the likelihood is that the king is gone, so it’s _probably_ still a decent option. But I’ve planted doubt in my own mind and would love town feedback on the subject. I think this is a salient point. I don’t see why the backstory to Parma would’ve needed to include a king-being-overtaken-by-Phere aspect if the endgame wouldn’t involve freeing the king. It might just be my fiction 101 talking, but you don’t put a demon-eaten-king on the wall in act 1 if you aren’t intending to [del]shoot[/del] free the king by act III. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2965 "2012-05-15T00:35:52Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Are you in a bad mood, Septimus? > > … I’m thus talking about law and moral alignments in my response. > > … We’ve been talking past each other ever since. You cool with putting this behind us and moving on? OK. Let me apologize sincerely. I should have listened to my Mother.(\*) Or better yet, let’s blame Pizza for the confusing terminology. 😃 “Alignment” always implies win-con to me, while AFAICT the lawful/chaotic distinction is more of a _mode_ (defense vs attack). Whenever I read of “changing alignment” I think of Scum recruitment and such. (\* - I _think_ my Mother kept trying to tell me to take deep breaths and count to 100 before clicking Reply. I don’t know – I didn’t listen. :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2966 "2012-05-15T00:37:30Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Thanks for the information, but unfortunately it does still worry me. > > Couldn’t you have asked for Protection? (We know that all Soldiers can take damage for you.) > > Why was Gadarene (and Astral) attacking you? > > Killing someone at night sounds like Scum… Soldiers can’t protect at night. We have a day attack and a day defend. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2967 "2012-05-15T00:41:12Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I’m going to > > **vote Mosier** for not really being a zombie – I think his last post was a dead (if you’ll pardon the pun) giveaway – and for having been resurrected by Phere, and thus IMHO likely having changed from good to evil (scum). I didn’t think about it before but the fact that Phere/scum placed three votes on **Mosier** to specifically circumvent the regular lynching process means that Phere/scum had other plans for **Mosier** , and gave him the opportunity to change alignments when he was down in Tartarus or Hell or wherever the evil dead do dwell. Big what if based on **Choie’s** hypothesis: What if the scum team has a recruitment opportunity if they manage to sway the vote? (If your triple vote manages to sway the outcome you will gain a team member, at their option, but you must sacrifice a night kill to achieve the resurrection) Clever, because we need to use a lynch to (maybe) find out. Has anyone watched **Mosier** since his resurrection? ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2968 "2012-05-15T00:41:25Z")
If you attack someone, that is an unlawful act. Therefore if you do two of these, you have the ability to change your (Good/Neutral) alignment down a phase to (Neutral/Evil) OR you can not accept the change OR you can change the other alignment things (Lawful/Neutral) to (Neutral/Chaotic). You can only do one of the options. If you protect someone twice then you can switch your alignment from (Neutral/Evil) to (Good/Neutral), do nothing or (Neutral/Chaotic) to (Lawful/Neutral). Understand? ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2969 "2012-05-15T00:43:53Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > Big what if based on **Choie’s** hypothesis: > What if the scum team has a recruitment opportunity if they manage to sway the vote? > (If your triple vote manages to sway the outcome you will gain a team member, at their option, but you must sacrifice a night kill to achieve the resurrection) > > Clever, because we need to use a lynch to (maybe) find out. > Has anyone watched **Mosier** since his resurrection? I highly doubt that is the case, because that is quite absurd. And of course they would choose to resurrect each night, especially because our lynches are so close generally. I think it would be an unbalanced mechanic. But as a one time thing, or even as a decoy/something Mosier doesn’t know about is possible. He might not know he is scum. Of course it could be Weedy reviving him, but who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2970 "2012-05-15T00:47:21Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > Soldiers can’t protect at night. We have a day attack and a day defend. Very good point. I completely lost track of the night/day thing. **Choie** tells us some can defend at night though, and anonymously. Was **Gnarlycharlie** being attacked in the night, or just day? Did he ask for healing? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2971 "2012-05-15T00:50:47Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > If you attack someone, that is an unlawful act. Therefore if you do two of these, you have the ability to change your (Good/Neutral) alignment down a phase to (Neutral/Evil) OR you can not accept the change OR you can change the other alignment things (Lawful/Neutral) to (Neutral/Chaotic). You can only do one of the options. > If you protect someone twice then you can switch your alignment from (Neutral/Evil) to (Good/Neutral), do nothing or (Neutral/Chaotic) to (Lawful/Neutral). (Color changed by me to indicate your words devolving into white noise to me. Not because they’re by you, **Visorslash** , but because they’re D&D-related.) It’s official. I’ve changed my own alignment: I’ve gone from True Neutral to True Hatred when it comes to my feelings about D&D. Fellow SDMBers, please smack me over the head with a two-by-four if I ever sign up for a game that indicates D&D-related mechanics because they are unbelievably a) confusing and b) boring as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2972 "2012-05-15T00:52:22Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > I think it would be an unbalanced mechanic. But as a one time thing, or even as a decoy/something Mosier doesn’t know about is possible. He might not know he is scum. Of course it could be Weedy reviving him, but who knows. Pizza has specifically said people can’t become scum unknowingly. Are you suggesting he might be a puppet in his sleep? **Mosier** himself said he becomes more capable at night. I did say it was a _big_ what if. [Pizza did say he was trying to balance against certain specific behaviours, but they were things my newb mind didn’t quite get, so I’d be happy to be enlightened by anyone.] ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2973 "2012-05-15T00:58:16Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > Pizza has specifically said people can’t become scum unknowingly. > > Are you suggesting he might be a puppet in his sleep? **Mosier** himself said he becomes more capable at night. > > I did say it was a _big_ what if. [Pizza did say he was trying to balance against certain specific behaviours, but they were things my newb mind didn’t quite get, so I’d be happy to be enlightened by anyone.] Yeah, but he was dead. Don’t know if that means anything in regards to this, but… Though the whole non zombie post he did today is enough for me to be attacking him rather then Phere today. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2974 "2012-05-15T00:59:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > OK. Let me apologize sincerely. Hug it out. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2975 "2012-05-15T01:00:55Z")
> [@choie](#): > > boring as hell. Ouch! And I thought my color was fun, at least! 😃 (no hurt feelings, just teasing) ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2976 "2012-05-15T01:13:56Z")
> [@choie](#): > > (Color changed by me to indicate your words devolving into white noise to me. Not because they’re by you, **Visorslash** , but because they’re D&D-related.) > > It’s official. I’ve changed my own alignment: I’ve gone from True Neutral to True Hatred when it comes to my feelings about D&D. > > Fellow SDMBers, please smack me over the head with a two-by-four if I ever sign up for a game that indicates D&D-related mechanics because they are unbelievably a) confusing and b) boring as hell. I’ve never played D&D in my life. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2977 "2012-05-15T01:14:31Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Ouch! And I thought my color was fun, at least! 😃 > > (no hurt feelings, just teasing) The color is my favorite part of these games! My only disappointment in Mafia … well, except for so far only getting to play on the boring good side and not engage my inner need for bloodlust properly … is that the color usually doesn’t end up meaning anything during the actual game portions of the, um, game. It’s like, people read the color just to figure out “okay, so he was scum, or she was Town and a roleblocker, etc.” and then the rest of the play is like every other Mafia game. I guess I find the dichotomy between so many games that use RPGs as an inspiration for color, and the actual gameplay that doesn’t really encourage actual roleplaying. I have to give it to **pizzaguy** for at least _trying_ to encourage this by making the _utterly ignored by now_ rule against quoting directly from role PMs (see **septimus** ’s specific handshaking “my PM has four specific mentions of warthogs” or whatever it was) so as to maintain the fiction that we’re actual townspeople in the realm of Parma. But I think all the longtime Mafia players are so enmeshed in the almost mathematical/statistical game mechanics that they are unable to just _play_ roles and have fun with that. …Or maybe I should just be doing more RPG playing instead of expecting Mafia to conform to my own inappropriate need for playing dress-up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2978 "2012-05-15T01:17:45Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > I’ve never played D&D in my life. 🙂 Good God. Seriously? Then how on earth do you _grok_\* it so well? - that was for you, **Tanaer** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2979 "2012-05-15T01:23:33Z")
> [@choie](#): > > The color is my favorite part of these games! My only disappointment in Mafia … well, except for so far only getting to play on the boring good side and not engage my inner need for bloodlust properly … is that the color usually doesn’t end up meaning anything during the actual game portions of the, um, game. It’s like, people read the color just to figure out “okay, so he was scum, or she was Town and a roleblocker, etc.” and then the rest of the play is like every other Mafia game. > > I guess I find the dichotomy between so many games that use RPGs as an inspiration for color, and the actual gameplay that doesn’t really encourage actual roleplaying. I have to give it to **pizzaguy** for at least _trying_ to encourage this by making the _utterly ignored by now_ rule against quoting directly from role PMs (see **septimus** ’s specific handshaking “my PM has four specific mentions of warthogs” or whatever it was) so as to maintain the fiction that we’re actual townspeople in the realm of Parma. But I think all the longtime Mafia players are so enmeshed in the almost mathematical/statistical game mechanics that they are unable to just _play_ roles and have fun with that. > > …Or maybe I should just be doing more RPG playing instead of expecting Mafia to conform to my own inappropriate need for playing dress-up. 🙂 NOTWs a pretty RPish. Some people like to RP, some people don’t. Depends on the setting as well. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/2980 "2012-05-15T01:25:23Z")
Okay, my jokes are out of the way. Couple of people of note: Believerer hasn’t checked in for 877 posts, somewhere in Day 3. Fubbleskag hasn’t checked in for 400 posts, somewhere in Day 4. Red Skeezix hasn’t checked in for 1,937 posts, somewhere in Night 1. Red is gonna be Wrath of Phere’d pretty soon, I would expect (I’m actually unclear on why he isn’t dead yet). At some point, I think we should choose either Believer or Fubbleskag for a coordinated attack if we want to remove players. If not, I believe we should attack Phere. If anybody has a better target, please say so. The lynch should almost always be reserved for your top scum lean, which is why I’d advise against lynching those two. I think there’s something unique about gnarlycharlie so far, and absent more evidence I don’t think it’s prudent to lynch him. **unvote gnarlycharlie** I’d actually like to lynch Mosier or NAF1138 toDay. NAF has, as many proven townies have noted, skated by in this game, staying under the radar. I’m not exaggerating when I say I have no read on him whatsoever. Before, that was enough not to vote for him. Now, it’s looking much more suspicious. The voting record seems to bear this out. Here’s a complete list of people who voted for NAF, and who NAF voted for: NAF1138 votes for Gadarene, post 91 Glee votes for NAF. It doesn’t count, (she unvotes), and it was random for leveling. post 114 NAF1138 votes **abstain** , 844. Gadarene votes NAF1138, 1344 storyteller votes NAF1138, 1912 - doesn’t count, vote and unvote, and does it wrong anyway. ToeJam votes NAF in 1934. ToeJam, as a third party, has no reason to lie and would want to appear honest. I have no reason to doubt this case. BobArrgh votes NAF113 in 2100 for flying under the radar. NAF has no vote Day 3 or 4. Now, it’s possible he’ll get Wrathed out of the game, so maybe we should hold off on him. It’s just very suspicious to me that two townies and a third party had legitimate votes for him, two more people had fake votes on him, and nobody else has even looked his way. He’s lurking pretty hard core, if he’s still playing. Ultimately, I guess if NAF doesn’t vote toDay, he’s toast toMorrow. Vote is better served going to Mosier, because I believe he is a danger to town. **Vote Mosier.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=148) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=150)