# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 187
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3722 "2012-06-05T02:39:52Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Someone better warn Astral that I only [slap slap kiss](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlapSlapKiss)! Hawt. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3723 "2012-06-05T02:43:28Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This is what is killing me. A player interested in advancing townā€™s knowledge and solving the game _would be interested in figuring this out._ > > Would it be in townā€™s benefit to find out what those hypothetical chaotic/evil actions might be? Would it be to townā€™s benefit to find out what thievery is? Would it be to townā€™s benefit to know definitively what your predecessor did, so that we can narrow down suspects for other actions? > > **Yes.** > > And I donā€™t see how a town-aligned player has no interest in this information at all. All right, I just sent pizza a pm asking what actions he specifically took. If youā€™re nice to me, Iā€™l tell you his response, if I ever get one. Do you have any idea how much work and how long it would take me to get over to the thief class? Everyoneā€™s time would be better served by finding someone whoā€™s still alive and was a rogue to ask. ATPG said he designs his game not to be solvable via spreadsheet. Some people like to prove the mod wrong. Me, I rarely solve them by spreadsheet even when the mod doesnā€™t actively attempt to foil that. _shrug_ diffā€™rent strokes. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3724 "2012-06-05T02:46:23Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > All right, I just sent pizza a pm asking what actions he specifically took. If youā€™re nice to me, Iā€™l tell you his response, if I ever get one. Thanks! > [@](#): > > Do you have any idea how much work and how long it would take me to get over to the thief class? Everyoneā€™s time would be better served by finding someone whoā€™s still alive and was a rogue to ask. I really donā€™t think you have the time. Iā€™m fairly confident weā€™re at LyLo, based on the heavy hinting Pizza was doing in the Dayā€™s color. > [@](#): > > ATPG said he designs his game not to be solvable via spreadsheet. Some people like to prove the mod wrong. Me, I rarely solve them by spreadsheet even when the mod doesnā€™t actively attempt to foil that. _shrug_ diffā€™rent strokes. Iā€™m not trying to solve the game by spreadsheet. Iā€™m trying to solve you. Iā€™m having trouble understanding your disinterest in your predecessorā€™s actions. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3725 "2012-06-05T02:48:08Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Hawt. šŸ˜ƒ Stop having fun, dammit! Weā€™re fighting! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3726 "2012-06-05T02:53:53Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Iā€™m not trying to solve the game by spreadsheet. Iā€™m trying to solve you. Iā€™m having trouble understanding your disinterest in your predecessorā€™s actions. You keep calling it things like disinterest, which is completely strange to me as Iā€™m about the most curious person I know. But I also spend very little time on things I donā€™t think will satiate my curiosity. ATPG didnā€™t seem like heā€™d be forthcoming with more information so I didnā€™t bother pursuing what looks like a dead end. What RT was sending to other people did look like it could pan out, so I investigated. This is not to say that I donā€™t care about his actions, and once the game was over, it would have been one of the top questions I asked along with who decided to kill the first version of me and why. ā™ŖHow do you solve a problem like Inner Stickler? How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?ā™« Good luck on that front. Iā€™ve been trying to figure myself out for years. If you manage it, please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3727 "2012-06-05T02:55:01Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Hawt. šŸ˜ƒ > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Stop having fun, dammit! Weā€™re fighting! Yā€™know, thereā€™s a current thread in Cafe Society about why m/m slash fiction is enjoyed by women. Perhaps this belongs in there? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3728 "2012-06-05T02:56:38Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You keep calling it things like disinterest, which is completely strange to me as Iā€™m about the most curious person I know. I donā€™t know what else to call it. > [@](#): > > But I also spend very little time on things I donā€™t think will satiate my curiosity. ATPG didnā€™t seem like heā€™d be forthcoming with more information so I didnā€™t bother pursuing what looks like a dead end. What RT was sending to other people did look like it could pan out, so I investigated. This is not to say that I donā€™t care about his actions, and once the game was over, it would have been one of the top questions I asked along with who decided to kill the first version of me and why. Okay, I understand this. I still donā€™t get why you said you were going to PM pizza, and then chose not to, and then got angry when questioned about it. > [@](#): > > ā™ŖHow do you solve a problem like Inner Stickler? How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?ā™« Good luck on that front. Iā€™ve been trying to figure myself out for years. If you manage it, please let me know. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3729 "2012-06-05T02:57:50Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I nailed fubbles being neutral from the getgo, btw. Thanks again to Toejam for that. šŸ™‚ hate to burst your bubble, but I wasnā€™t neutral at the time of your accusation; I gained a neutral win-con afterwards based on my actions, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3730 "2012-06-05T02:58:28Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > hate to burst your bubble, but I wasnā€™t neutral at the time of your accusation; I gained a neutral win-con afterwards based on my actions, not the other way around. Arenā€™t you dead? Shush. This is spoiled information. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3731 "2012-06-05T02:58:59Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > But I also spend very little time on things I donā€™t think will satiate my curiosity. ATPG didnā€™t seem like heā€™d be forthcoming with more information so I didnā€™t bother pursuing what looks like a dead end. I dunno, **Inner** ā€“ I think itā€™s almost mandatory that **pizzaguy** should give you this information. You _are_, for the purposes of this game, **RealityTrip**. Itā€™s only fair not to force you into such a role _tabula rasa_ ā€“ you _deserve_ to know what your previous incarnation was up to. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3732 "2012-06-05T03:03:07Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > hate to burst your bubble, but I wasnā€™t neutral at the time of your accusation; I gained a neutral win-con afterwards based on my actions, not the other way around. GODDAMIT IT STAY DEAD. Now I know why undertakers sew corpsesā€™ mouths shut. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3733 "2012-06-05T03:05:53Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I dunno, **Inner** ā€“ I think itā€™s almost mandatory that **pizzaguy** should give you this information. You _are_, for the purposes of this game, **RealityTrip**. Itā€™s only fair not to force you into such a role _tabula rasa_ ā€“ you _deserve_ to know what your previous incarnation was up to. Agreed - you should know not only what actions were performed, but the result of them. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3734 "2012-06-05T04:38:00Z")
By the way, since weā€™re likely at LyLo, would anyone want to claim the Mosier resurrection? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3735 "2012-06-05T05:21:09Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > By the way, since weā€™re likely at LyLo, would anyone want to claim the Mosier resurrection? But we know who did it ā€“ it was Phere (or his mastermind), right? At least thatā€™s how I read the color in [#1758](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14993852&postcount=1758): > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > "Hora de rezar. Morirā€¦ esā€¦ vivir! > > The gargantuan \*\*Demon Lord \*\*began chanting ominously, and a burning symbol appeared on the rocky ground. > > The fallen body of \*\*Mosier \*\*is surrounded by **darkness** ā€¦ and soon, his eyes open. To seeā€¦ from beyond death itselfā€¦ > > Mosier has returned from the grave. (Sorry, got rid of all the fonts and colors and styles, oy veh!) Compare this with your own resurrection mere seconds later: > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Meanwhile, a\*\* glowing light **appears elsewhere, from within the Fortification. In a brilliant flash, the body of** Astral Rejection\*\* appears. > > Astral Rejection has been returned. The Zombied One involved Phere, the otherā€¦ not so much. šŸ™‚ Or have others been reading it a different way? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3736 "2012-06-05T05:28:32Z")
I know we disagree about this, but Phere canā€™t be performing actions on his own. Iā€™m still certain heā€™s a color representation of player actions. Askthepizzaguy, per the rules, is not a participant. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3737 "2012-06-05T05:35:03Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I know we disagree about this, but Phere canā€™t be performing actions on his own. Iā€™m still certain heā€™s a color representation of player actions. Askthepizzaguy, per the rules, is not a participant. I know that, Iā€™m saying that whoever has control of Phere is obviously the one who rose Zombie Mosier, considering Phere did the chanting, Phere did all the acting here (yes, yes, controlled by his puppetmaster, but it was _the Demon Lord_, e.g., the person playing the Biggest Baddest Scum). And Evil **septimus** ā€™s remarkable candor aside, I canā€™t see the said Big Bad Scum player being nice enough to raise his or her hand and say ā€œoh yeah, that oneā€™s mine. Oh crap, I didnā€™t just admit to controling Phere, did I?ā€ ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3738 "2012-06-05T09:36:27Z")
We know from the color weā€™re at LyLo. This adds up if there are TWO Scum left. We want to Lynch the one who controls the Triple Vote. This post catches the eye: > [@Tanaer](#): > > **HEY PHERE! You napping? Having communication problems with your MASTER? Why donā€™t you give us a hint & we can dispose of them for you?** Would **Tanaer** write this if he were the MASTER ? Perhaps yes, as WIFOM. But ā€œWhy donā€™t you give us a hintā€ reminds us that Pizza has been giving hints ā€“ lots of them. He has been very forthcoming in his PM responses to me. He knows heā€™s constructed a difficult game, and has probably given good hints. Iā€™m afraid Iā€™ve not decoded them, unfortunately. The difference in death reveals may be important: > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > _It is the **year 10,432ā€¦** _ > ā€¦ > > \*The order to retreat is given, but one of them is ordered to stay behind. > **Astral Rejection** turns and faces the Demon Lord alone. > > _ā€œDemon Lord! I am **Astral Rejection!** You have slain your last, for I, **Astral Rejection** , will send you to your doom!ā€_ > > The Demon Lord advances on Astral Rejection, saying nothing. > > _ā€œRepent for all that you have done! Begone from this realm! Go back from whence you came, and show your face here no longer! So sayeth I, **Astral Rejection**!ā€_ > > The Demon Lord stands before Astral Rejection, pausing momentarily. > > _ā€œā€¦Right! You should hesitate, for I, Astral Rejection, am no mere mudpuppy. I have twice the strength of any ordinary man! I, Astral Rejection, am skilled in both the ways of combat, and of romance! I, Astral Rejectionā€¦ > THINK FAST!!!ā€_ > > \*\*Astral Rejection \*\*aims and fires his \*\*weapon \*\*quickly, scampering away while making a Zoidbergian woop woop woop sound. > > _ā€œWOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP!!!ā€_ > > The arrow deflects harmlessly off of Lord Phere. Astral Rejection doesnā€™t even make it out of sweating distance of the creature before heā€™s turned into an impact crater. > > \*_CRUNCH_ > \*\* > > Astral Rejection was slain by Lord Phere.\*\* > > **The Aftermath:** > > Upon inspection of his remains, they noticed that\*\* Astral Rejection \*\*seemed to be dressed like an ordinary **Archer** , and there was nothing sinister about him. Reluctantly, they were forced to conclude that a **Good** Adventurer was slainā€¦ What to make of this? Does it clear Astral? Or implicate him? One thing I notice is that Astral ā€œseemedā€ to be ordinary and we were ā€œforcedā€ to conclude. Pizza used similar words when Glee Version 1 died, but wrote ā€œShe was truly a Good Adventurerā€ upon the death of Glee Version 2. (BTW, am I the only one who wants to direct Attacks physical and magical against whoever programmed SDMB search? I wanted to test a theory about these death reveals, but learned only that > [@](#): > > ā€œThe following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search: seemedā€ ) Despite uncertainty, the circumstantial evidence is strong: [ul][li] Astral claims to have been offered a change to Neutral Morality without warning of win-con change. AFAIK, this is unique.[/li][li] Astral acknowledges that he ignores accusations of dishonesty not accompanied with specific questions directed at him. Presumably he hopes the accusations pass unnoticed.[/li][li] In Day 2, the Scum who controls Lord Phereā€™s triple-vote voted for Guiri but was surprised when this was revealed before EOD. As cover, he then voted Astral, though there was little or no bandwagon on Astral at the time. When a wagon did develop on Astral, the triple-vote was removed. I think the Scum Master knew he could Die and be Resurrected, but perhaps thereā€™s a limit. Perhaps only a single Resurrection is allowed.[/li][li] The ā€œseemed ā€¦ forced to concludeā€ Death reveal is interesting. Did this occur with anyone other than Astral and Glee Version 1?[/li][li] Astral has been quite active throughout the Game.[/li][/ul] Iā€™ll not be surprised if Tanaer and Astral are the two Scum. I donā€™t know which controls the Triple-Vote but I _will_ ā€œmake a statement.ā€ **Vote: Astral Rejection** Who has the special object which controls Lord Phere? I think we should all publicly reveal what our object(s) are. Letā€™s start with you two, Astral and Tanaer. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3739 "2012-06-05T11:47:13Z")
I just recalled something. **Astral** did NOT start with the special object: it would have been revealed when he was Lynched. (Iā€™d already figured this out, but managed to forget it. :smack: Iā€™m visiting doctor tomorrow; perhaps I should ask him about Early Alzheimerā€™s.) **Unvote: Astral Rejection** We should vote for the Master (possibly/probably partnered with Astral) who possesses the triple-vote. My best guess is **Tanaer** but I try to keep an open mind. I hope other Players can apply better logic or intuition. One thing is clear: We must unify behind a single Lynch candidate, or triple-voter will step up and claim victory. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3740 "2012-06-05T13:17:42Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [li] Astral has been quite active throughout the Game.[/li][/LIST] For the life of me, I have no idea how this is evidence of my scummyness. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3741 "2012-06-05T13:23:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > We should vote for the Master (possibly/probably partnered with Astral) who possesses the triple-vote. My best guess is **Tanaer** but I try to keep an open mind. I hope other Players can apply better logic or intuition. My resurrection (color-wise) matches Guiriā€™s and Gadareneā€™s. Does this change your theory about my resurrection? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=186) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=188)