# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 189
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3762 "2012-06-05T19:47:04Z")
Kinda assuming we’ll mislynch there, aren’t you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3763 "2012-06-05T19:56:34Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Kinda assuming we’ll mislynch there, aren’t you? 😃 Not entirely. Pizza said this is the last Day when I asked him how many items I could carry/have now and the 666 reference is dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3764 "2012-06-05T20:08:32Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > voting the self-admitted evil-aligned player The alignments in my latest role PM are very clear. Moral: Evil Law: Chaotic Game: Neutral Which of the following is your belief? [ul][li] Septimus started as Scum.[/li][li] Septimus started as Good Townie but eventually joined the Scum team.[/li][li] Septimus started as Good Townie but eventually became an “Evil Sorcerer” with a 3rd Party win-con.[/li][/ul] (After learning the Evil 2rd Party win-con, I could have scampered back to Neutral Morality, but what was the point? I’d get the harder-to-achieve win-con, and a role less powerful than Sorcerer.) I could have remained silent, and won with either Town or Scum as long as I survived. Instead I try to help Town by informing all that “Evil” and “Very Evil Scum” are completely different in this game. (I have trouble keeping secrets or telling white lies in real life; this problem has led to real problems on occasion. Sorry if my candor in this game leads to a misLynch and Town defeat. :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3765 "2012-06-05T20:14:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Instead I try to help Town by informing all that “Evil” and “Very Evil Scum” are completely different in this game. isn’t there no such thing as “very evil”? Weedy wasn’t actually a bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3766 "2012-06-05T20:21:27Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > isn’t there no such thing as “very evil”? Weedy wasn’t actually a bad guy. Yup. Everyone who’s flipped just plain “Evil” has been scum so far as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3767 "2012-06-05T20:21:46Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > So, if I’m reading you correctly, you think “playing the game” is circumstantial evidence of scummyness? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > isn’t there no such thing as “very evil”? Weedy wasn’t actually a bad guy. You may not be Scum, but you certainly are obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3768 "2012-06-05T20:23:24Z")
Yup. Obtuse enough to not get what your pair of quotes means. What are you getting at? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3769 "2012-06-05T20:27:45Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > isn’t there no such thing as “very evil”? Weedy wasn’t actually a bad guy. Assuming that Parma’s reveal of Phere’s occlusion isn’t itself an occlusion. Any time the moderator lies in reveals, it adds uncertainty to all previous reveals and all future reveals. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3770 "2012-06-05T21:12:43Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Not entirely. > Pizza said this is the last Day when I asked him how many items I could carry/have now > > and the 666 reference is dramatic. This would have been helpful information to have as soon as you received it. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3771 "2012-06-05T21:13:55Z")
With 9 people left, how is it possible for this to be LyLo? Anyone want to work through the numbers? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3772 "2012-06-05T21:14:55Z")
In my earlier Vote on Astral, I wrote five “bullets” as part of the case. (The 5th bullet was an afterthought, that might have been silly since some won’t understand the point.) > [@septimus](#): > > [ul][li] Astral claims to have been offered a change to Neutral Morality without warning of win-con change. AFAIK, this is unique.[/li][li] Astral acknowledges that he ignores accusations of dishonesty not accompanied with specific questions directed at him. Presumably he hopes the accusations pass unnoticed.[/li][li] In Day 2, the Scum who controls Lord Phere’s triple-vote voted for Guiri but was surprised when this was revealed before EOD. As cover, he then voted Astral, though there was little or no bandwagon on Astral at the time. When a wagon did develop on Astral, the triple-vote was removed. I think the Scum Master knew he could Die and be Resurrected, but perhaps there’s a limit. Perhaps only a single Resurrection is allowed.[/li][li] The “seemed … forced to conclude” Death reveal is interesting. Did this occur with anyone other than Astral and Glee Version 1?[/li][li] Astral has been quite active throughout the Game.[/li][/ul] It’s interesting that, of these charges, Astral chose to address only the 5th, afterthought, bullet. My unfortunate comment about non-acute angles could have been better phrased. I should have written:     _EITHER Astral is Scum trying to bamboozle the jury OR he is obtuse._ I will pay Astral a compliment: **Vote: Astral Rejection** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3773 "2012-06-05T21:22:40Z")
If there are two remaining scum, and the 3-voter is a scum power: 2 scum + 3 extra votes: 5 votes 7 town: 8 votes (+1 for Gadarene’s vote doubling) Mislynch + night kill is game over, because: 2 scum + 3 extra votes: 5 votes 5 town: 5 votes (assuming Gadarene is night-killed) Tie generally is called scum victory. I’m working off memory. Adjust as needed if Gad isn’t a vote doubler. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3774 "2012-06-05T21:29:21Z")
I ignored it because your case is terrible. 1. Yup, that happened. 2. I’m fairly certain I admitted missing your post. You’re interpreting that fairly loosely. 3. if whomever resurrected me announces that they resurrected me, will you admit this is a spurious hypothesis unsupported by a shred of facts? 4. how exactly do you expect me to “answer for” the color Askthepizza guy writes? 5. And, once again, “playing the game” isn’t evidence of scummyness. I love your false dichotomy, by the way. I’m either scum or stupid. I guess of my choices, I’ll pick “stupid.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3775 "2012-06-05T21:30:12Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If there are two remaining scum, and the 3-voter is a scum power: > > 2 scum + 3 extra votes: 5 votes > 7 town: 8 votes (+1 for Gadarene’s vote doubling) > > Mislynch + night kill is game over, because: > > 2 scum + 3 extra votes: 5 votes > 5 town: 5 votes (assuming Gadarene is night-killed) > Tie generally is called scum victory. > > I’m working off memory. Adjust as needed if Gad isn’t a vote doubler. You mean Guiri, not me. And I’d forgotten about that terrible triple-voter. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3776 "2012-06-05T21:33:09Z")
G-names! [shakes fist] ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3777 "2012-06-05T21:39:25Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If there are two remaining scum, and the 3-voter is a scum power: > > 2 scum + 3 extra votes: 5 votes > 7 town: 8 votes (+1 for Gadarene’s vote doubling) > > Mislynch + night kill is game over, because: > > 2 scum + 3 extra votes: 5 votes > 5 town: 5 votes (assuming Gadarene is night-killed) > Tie generally is called scum victory. > > I’m working off memory. Adjust as needed if Gad isn’t a vote doubler. You mean **Guiri** , but otherwise I think it’s correct. Although it also works without the NK if there are three remaining scum, right? We don’t know how many scum are left. The scary thing is that similar to **septimus** ’s remark about not trusting **Weedy** ’s second flip (though I think the King of Parma is intended to be honest and wouldn’t speak falsehoods), I’m more worried about the opposite: considering **Weedy** ’s first fake flip, how do we know if all the “Evil” folks we’ve killed were actually Evil / Scum, assuming they’re the same thing? Meaning we may have more scum alive than we realize, which does make LyLo understandable. If anyone else is a Knight and hence a double-voter, we need to know ASAP. Also I find it hard to believe that **pizza** would say, and _mean_, that this is literally the last Day, period, no matter how the vote goes. That means it’s not just LyLo for us, it’s just as desperate for scum, and I don’t understand at all how that would work. Unless he’s just slamming down the hammer himself because he’s tired of the game, but that doesn’t seem like him. I am genuinely not saying you’re lying, **LightFoot** , I just think you might have misread, or maybe he was sloppy and unclear with his response. Re: your questions earlier about the resurrections, I think it’s prudent to wait and let the resurrector choose to reveal him/herself during a mass claim, if we all agree that this is the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3778 "2012-06-05T21:41:17Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > This would have been helpful information to have as soon as you received it. [Which I did](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15129043#post15129043) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3779 "2012-06-05T21:42:24Z")
Yeah. Unless there’s only one scum left, this can’t actually be the last day of the game. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3780 "2012-06-05T21:49:48Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Yeah. Unless there’s only one scum left, this can’t actually be the last day of the game. **LightFoot** , are you getting this from a message from **pizza** , or are you taking this from the color at the end of last Night, and his entitling this “The Last Day”? Which is understandable conjecture but **pizza** does tend to use melodramatic titles and song titles and so on. It might not be literal. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/3781 "2012-06-05T21:54:28Z")
> [@choie](#): > > **LightFoot** , are you getting this from a message from **pizza** , or are you taking this from the color at the end of last Night, and his entitling this “The Last Day”? Which is understandable conjecture but **pizza** does tend to use melodramatic titles and song titles and so on. It might not be literal. Someone has also said they couldn’t class change anymore, and I have received a similar indication. Whether this means it’s the last day, or Pizza has just frozen the level mechanic for a different meaning of “endgame” I’m less sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=188) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=190)