# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/441 "2012-04-09T16:58:52Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Lord Phere takes 80hp damage. ( unknown ) > Lord Phere takes 80hp damage. (unknown) > > Lightfoot takes 25hp damage. (unknown) > > Inner Stickler takes 75hp damage. (protected Visorslash) > > Glee takes 13hp damage. (unknown) > > Visorslash takes 100hp damage.( magical orb damage even with protection) > > ToeJam takes 50hp damage. (unknown) > > GuiriEnEspana takes 50hp damage.(unknown) > > Red Skeezix takes 60hp damage. (unknown) > > \*\*Visorslash,BobArrgh,Inner Stickler \*\* were all protected ( or attempt was made to protect them) > > The players with damage may have attacked Lord Phere-another player-or been protecting a player. > > I doubt the Mod would have placed the offers of protection in order of the HP damage so I’m not reading anything into that just now > I made this list for me. And decided to share it in case someone else saw something I’ve missed. I _think_ this makes Guiri greater than random chance (\>rand) to be Town, as I can’t see a Townie attacking him on Day One. Actually, let me revise that: I think that Guiri was attacked by either Scum or by a Third Party, so I guess that doesn’t say anything one way or the other about his role (since he could be a scum who was attacked by a third party, etc.). I just don’t think he was attacked by a Townie. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/442 "2012-04-09T17:02:19Z")
I’m curious about who (and why, and maybe even how) attacked Lord Phere. Lord Phere is Pizza’s role, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/443 "2012-04-09T17:06:17Z")
The wording of the color in #379 makes it possible that Guiri was the one who protected Inner and got damaged for his troubles. Dunno whether that needs to be squared with Inner explicitly being the person to try and protect Visorslash earlier in the sequence. Also, looks like (a) more than one person attacked Lord Phere; and (b) not all of the damage taken was the result of players attacking each other; some of it was from the hell fighters summoned by Lord Phere. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/444 "2012-04-09T17:07:22Z")
I’d like to see whether (and how) Normal publicly confirms receipt of my PM. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/445 "2012-04-09T17:08:09Z")
Good to hear you didn’t break the rules, **Gadarene**. Sorry for implying you would, I just thought you might not’ve considered what you were doing as potentiall rule-breaking. If you and/or **Normal** are townies, it would suck if we ended up losing you for something petty like that. (Though I suppose **Normal** could be scum trying to lure you into rule-breaking, since she suggested it… but she reads as Town to me, I think.) I’m actually interested in **glee** ’s measly 13hp damage. Was his attacker that bad a fighter, or is **glee** that powerful a dodger/evader/defender? All the other people attacked received much more damage. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/446 "2012-04-09T17:10:32Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I _think_ this makes Guiri greater than random chance (\>rand) to be Town, as I can’t see a Townie attacking him on Day One. Actually, let me revise that: I think that Guiri was attacked by either Scum or by a Third Party, so I guess that doesn’t say anything one way or the other about his role (since he could be a scum who was attacked by a third party, etc.). I just don’t think he was attacked by a Townie. I don’t follow? How do you arrive at this? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/447 "2012-04-09T17:13:02Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Good to hear you didn’t break the rules, **Gadarene**. Sorry for implying you would, I just thought you might not’ve considered what you were doing as potentiall rule-breaking. If you and/or **Normal** are townies, it would suck if we ended up losing you for something petty like that. (Though I suppose **Normal** could be scum trying to lure you into rule-breaking, since she suggested it… but she reads as Town to me, I think.) > > I’m actually interested in **glee** ’s measly 13hp damage. Was his attacker that bad a fighter, or is **glee** that powerful a dodger/evader/defender? All the other people attacked received much more damage. I didn’t take offense at all; no worries! I’ve never played in a Mafia/werewolf game where players can just freely PM amongst themselves, and I’m pretty tickled by the novelty of it. I didn’t even necessarily take Normal’s asking for my role information as a request to PM her (I thought it was more of a deadpan joke in the vein of, “oh, you trust me, do you?”) – it made me smile to be able to essentially put my money where my mouth was there. 🙂 **Pizza, are people allowed to quote (or purport to quote) PM communications that they receive from other players?** Also, choie: good observation about glee. I hadn’t really paid attention to that when I read through the color just now. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/448 "2012-04-09T17:16:47Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > I don’t follow? > How do you arrive at this? Because Guiri is an excellent, excellent player. Guiri is, as far as I can tell, one of the leading candidates for a night one nightkill in all games where he is not scum. Most people in this game would know Guiri’s reputation (it was even alluded to several times on day one) and would not think that Guiri was a good target for their attack toDay. I guess I should moderate my earlier remark by saying: If Guiri _was_ attacked by a Townie, then his attacker is someone who is not familiar with Guiri’s reputation as perhaps the strongest player and most incisive, relentless scumhunter on this board. (No pressure, Guiri! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/449 "2012-04-09T17:19:02Z")
Catching up after a busy weekend. Ve-e-ry Interesting… Anyway, a number of posts coming: > [@Gadarene](#): > > I have caught multiple scum solely on the basis of their opening post. Ask Weedy. In fact, I caught Weedy herself as scum when she made a “studiedly casual” opening post on day one and I pointed it out immediately. You do realize this is a bunch of BS, right? I will accept that you have on more than one occasion identified Scum based on a single post. That doesn’t mean you have any special talent for it. It means you happened to guess right a few times. If I fire a shotgun blindly into the air a hundred times, and happen to hit a few ducks in the process, that doesn’t make me an expert hunter. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/450 "2012-04-09T17:19:31Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Because Guiri is an excellent, excellent player. Guiri is, as far as I can tell, one of the leading candidates for a night one nightkill in all games where he is not scum. Most people in this game would know Guiri’s reputation (it was even alluded to several times on day one) and would not think that Guiri was a good target for their attack toDay. > > I guess I should moderate my earlier remark by saying: If Guiri _was_ attacked by a Townie, then his attacker is someone who is not familiar with Guiri’s reputation as perhaps the strongest player and most incisive, relentless scumhunter on this board. > > (No pressure, Guiri! 🙂 ) ah I’d take that with a grain of salt though, Good players can be slippery Scum too ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/451 "2012-04-09T17:20:19Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > I’m still kind of curious as to how much HP the Demon Lord has, and if he can be killed though. Over 9000! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/452 "2012-04-09T17:30:13Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I’m actually interested in **glee** ’s measly 13hp damage. Was his attacker that bad a fighter, or is **glee** that powerful a dodger/evader/defender? All the other people attacked received much more damage. Choie, you’ve twice now outed yourself as not “vanilla” town, this quoted section being the most recent. In the interest of preventing further outings (and because scum have likely already noticed), I’ve decided to speak up. “Vanilla” town soldiers can attack or defend as their day action. An attack (in my case) does 25 HP. A defend cuts that in half and redirects that damage to the defender. I don’t know if other soldiers can do more or less damage. Mages, I would guess, do the higher amount of damage we’ve seen. Why out you? Scum likely have cover roles, and one of them is likely to be a “vanilla” town role. I’m guessing they know (or have figured out) what’s going on, and therefore I deemed it beneficial to get town on the same footing. I also think this helps townies who might not have been in the know a better shot at interpreting the dusk reveals. A couple of caveats: scum might also have “vanilla” roles that duplicate a town soldier or Mage, in that they can attack or defend. Choie might be scum if I was wrong about them having a vanilla cover role. So take that into consideration when assessing what happened at Dusk. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/453 "2012-04-09T17:33:27Z")
Oh, and before somebody jumps on me for this: “defend” is called “guard” by pizza. Paraphrase fail! ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/454 "2012-04-09T17:38:49Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > You do realize this is a bunch of BS, right? > > I will accept that you have on more than one occasion identified Scum based on a single post. That doesn’t mean you have any special talent for it. It means you happened to guess right a few times. > > If I fire a shotgun blindly into the air a hundred times, and happen to hit a few ducks in the process, that doesn’t make me an expert hunter. I mean, I don’t think it’s a bunch of BS, but you’re free to disagree. I have a ton of respect for your game, Suburban, but I can’t remember whether you’re one of those players who thinks being able to “clear” people as being \>rand town has no merit at all. This is merely the flip side of that: I look for people who seem easy-going and free-flowing in their interactions and thought processes. Someone whose interactions or thought processes seem forced or faked or stilted are, in my experience, more likely to be scum. And that’s not firing a shotgun blindly; that’s a fundamental aspect of Mafia/werewolf strategy. Focusing on opening posts in particular is just another extension of that, since scum (in my experience) tend to be more self-conscious about how their opening posts are worded than townies are, and sometimes that self-consciousness bleeds through. Can I be wrong about it? Absolutely. But it’s not some random walk, and it certainly is possible to discern things about people’s roles from just one post even if you don’t think I’m very good at it myself. Hell, look how many people purported to discern something about my alignment from my first post. 🙂 They are/were wrong, and their reasoning was shoddy, but that doesn’t mean the entire undertaking is just tossing darts blindfolded. > [@LightFoot](#): > > ah I’d take that with a grain of salt though, Good players can be slippery Scum too 😕 That’s not what I’m saying. I’m making no pronouncement on Guiri’s alignment other than to say that he is not an intuitive day one target for most Townies. It’s a hero shot that is way more likely to go spectacularly wrong (and a town Guiri dying – or being significantly injured – on day one at the hands of a fellow townie qualifies as “spectacularly wrong”) than to bag a scum. The risk-reward ratio is out of whack. He’s not a good town target toDay. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/455 "2012-04-09T17:39:49Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Fascinating. > > I missed the extra vote on Gadarene and the one on Mosier. I speculate that they are separate players (although can’t prove this, and the vote charger roles in Malazan are a counterargument). > > The three late votes for Mosier are probably a single power; one-shot, I hope. I’m confused by the 3 votes on **Mosier**. Why would anyone have targeted him? He was “only a Soldier”, so it doesn’t seem that someone had ‘secret information’ that made him an attractive target. So why waste these votes here? Especially if it were a one-time shot…it seems like an odd choice and time for such a power. As has been pointed out, the ‘obvious’ reason for such an action would be to save **Gadarene**. The other ‘obvious’ reason would be to throw suspicion on Gadarene for having been saved in such a manner. The apparent vote tally at EoD was Gad - 6 Astral - 5 Mosier - 4 the actual vote tally, after the Demon Lord and the secret votes, was Mosier - 8 Gad - 7 Astral - 5 Assume the three Demon Lord votes were placed by a single person with the intent to lynch Mosier over Gadarene (for whatever reason). Those 3 votes would have put Mosier in the lead 7-6…\*\*\*except \*\*\*that there was a ‘hidden’ vote on Gad, so there would have still been a 7-7 tie (and presumably Gadarene would have been lynched by virtue of having been in the lead at EoD, though this is only supposition)…\*\*\*except \*\*\*that there was _also_ a ‘hidden’ vote on Mosier, so he led 8-7 and was lynched after all. So the unknown ‘triple-voter’ got darn lucky that somebody else placed a secret vote on Mosier to counteract the secret vote that somebody \*else \*placed on Gad. It seems like an awful lot of coincidences. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/456 "2012-04-09T17:45:16Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > An attack (in my case) does 25 HP. A defend cuts that in half and redirects that damage to the defender. Do the elements also play a role in damage received? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/457 "2012-04-09T17:47:10Z")
Fire deals double damage to earth, normal damage to wind, half damage to water. Earth deals double damage to wind, normal damage to water, half damage to fire Water deals double damage to fire, normal damage to earth, half damage to wind Wind deals double damage to water, normal damage fire, half damage to earth. Light deals double damage to shadow, half damage to fire and wind, normal damage to others. Shadow deals double damage to light, half damage to earth and water, normal damage to others. Magical damage and physical damage are different- some forms of protection can stop one kind of damage, but not the other. That said, damage taken reduces hit points, and any kind of healing will restore hp damage of any type. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/458 "2012-04-09T17:47:37Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m confused by the 3 votes on **Mosier**. Why would anyone have targeted him? He was “only a Soldier”, so it doesn’t seem that someone had ‘secret information’ that made him an attractive target. So why waste these votes here? Especially if it were a one-time shot…it seems like an odd choice and time for such a power. > > As has been pointed out, the ‘obvious’ reason for such an action would be to save **Gadarene**. The other ‘obvious’ reason would be to throw suspicion on Gadarene for having been saved in such a manner. > > The apparent vote tally at EoD was > > Gad - 6 > Astral - 5 > Mosier - 4 > > the actual vote tally, after the Demon Lord and the secret votes, was > > Mosier - 8 > Gad - 7 > Astral - 5 > > Assume the three Demon Lord votes were placed by a single person with the intent to lynch Mosier over Gadarene (for whatever reason). Those 3 votes would have put Mosier in the lead 7-6…\*\*\*except \*\*\*that there was a ‘hidden’ vote on Gad, so there would have still been a 7-7 tie (and presumably Gadarene would have been lynched by virtue of having been in the lead at EoD, though this is only supposition)…\*\*\*except \*\*\*that there was _also_ a ‘hidden’ vote on Mosier, so he led 8-7 and was lynched after all. > > So the unknown ‘triple-voter’ got darn lucky that somebody else placed a secret vote on Mosier to counteract the secret vote that somebody \*else \*placed on Gad. > > It seems like an awful lot of coincidences. I have the benefit of knowing that the extra votes on Mosier were not done by scum to save fellow scum Gadarene. 🙂 From that standpoint, I’m inclined to believe that the extra votes were: (a) intended as noise and/or misdirection by scum (although I can’t imagine that the power can be used that many times, and why set things up to lynch me today if they could have just lynched me yesterday without using the power?); (b) intended to save Astral by scum (I don’t really buy it – they would have had no reason to think he was in danger, unless the action for the extra votes had to be submitted X hours before end of day, at the point where Astral could easily have been the lynch – but in that case, why not just put them on me?) (c) intended to save me by a Townie who (correctly) believed that I was not scum (if this is the case, I’m very grateful) (d) some random mechanism instituted by Pizza (seems very unlikely) (e) something I haven’t thought of So I know what it _wasn’t_, but figuring out what it _was_ is a harder task. Right now I’m leaning towards the votes being placed by a townie to save me because they thought I was townie (or they thought my wagon was very sketchy, which amounts to the same thing). ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/459 "2012-04-09T17:50:20Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Do the elements also play a role in damage received? What LightFoot said. I wouldn’t be surprised if items play a role in damage as well. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/460 "2012-04-09T17:50:27Z")
Having said the above stuff to Suburban about the legitimacy of making reads on people based on very few posts, I will now reiterate that I thought Astral reacted pretty well to the whole thing yesterday, and my scum lean on him is diminished. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=24)