# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/481 "2012-04-09T19:18:13Z")
Wait, what? **Astral** , you’re making some big assumptions that indicate you know more than you should. All you presumably know is what’s written in your own role sheet. You know naught (or should know naught, unless you’re Scum) of what’s written on others’ role sheets. > [@Astral Rejection](#): > > People with vanilla town PMs know what’s going on. So you know everyone’s vanilla town PMs, do you? You think someone as crafty as **askthepizzaguy** gave every member of the same class an identical sheet? That’s one heckuva assumption. And you were a GM yourself not so long ago! Seems to me there’s little scummier, or at least anti-Townier, than asserting _in public_ that a Town player is an allegedly non-vanilla. Did you not remember that the PM option is available to us? Or did you just want to do this in front of everyone since by doing so, oh so coincidentally, you’re claiming to be a vanilla Townie yourself? Yeesh, dude. If you’re really Townie, saints preserve us from any more such allies, because they’re apparently willing to do Scum’s work for them. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/482 "2012-04-09T19:18:20Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > That’s my guess. Some may well be something else, but I’m also willing to bet some of our vanillas forgot to submit an action. 9 seems like a good starting place, though. I’m still not sure I know what you’re getting at here. Are you saying that because there were 9 attacks, that means 9 “Vanilla” people are responsible for them? So anyone who is not Vanilla could not possibly have attacked anyone? And that you assume there are more than 9 Vanilla players, because some of them probably forgot to submit actions? You seem to be eliminating a number of possibilities: [ul][li]A “non-Vanilla” player may be able to attack and perform an ‘Action’ on the same day[/li][li]a non-Vanilla player may be able to attack during the day and take another action at Night[/li][li]a non-Vanilla player may choose to attack during the Day instead of using another ability[/li][li]any player may \*choose \*to do nothing during the Day (as opposed to forgetting to submit an action)[/ul][/li] It seems to me that you are making a few unwarranted assumptions…or am I completely misunderstanding what you are saying? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/483 "2012-04-09T19:19:56Z")
I agree with both choie and Suburban here (and the respective points that they’re making). ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/484 "2012-04-09T19:21:25Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I think you’ve posited: > > 1. I was attacked by either scum or third party OR > 2. I was hurt protecting Inner OR > 3. I was attacked by a townie who is unfamiliar with me > > For the sake of completeness, add in: > 4. I was hurt attacking someone > 5. I was hurt protecting someone else > 6 I was bitch slapped > > One of these is almost certainly true. 2 and 5 would indicate I was busy protecting yesterDay. 4 would indicate I was busy attacking. 1 would seem to be a test of my protection, why else bother with a non-fatal attack if they wan me dead? 3 would be unfortunate. For 4, I was accused of being smug and over-confident, so possibly it was intended as a bitch slap. Fair enough. I guess it would be unproductive to probe this any further right now. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/485 "2012-04-09T19:38:18Z")
Quoting will be too hard on my phone. Addressed in order, unless I miss something. I know nothing of what’s written on others’ sheets. However, I’m assuming other soldiers have identical powers to mine. This is a fair Day 1 assumption, which will break down on future days when we can select new roles or swap roles. Regardless, their sheet doesn’t matter. I have no reason to assume other soldiers have different powers than I do. Further, if I’m wrong, _scum kill a vanilla Choie._. Sorry to be callous, but in the greater scheme of things, that’s not the worst possible outcome of Night 1. Lastly, to Choie’s assertion that if I’m town, I’m doing the scum’s job: :rolleye: To Suburban: How do you get “all 9 attacks are from vanilla players” from “Some of them may be something else.” ? The rest of your points are based off this initial misunderstanding. * * * I’m sorry my attempts to shed light on the state of the game have been so ill-received. At every step, I took actions that I thought would benefit town. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/486 "2012-04-09T19:56:35Z")
So now **Astral** is issuing orders to scum to attack someone he thinks could be a power role Townie who’s outted herself. He doesn’t suggest something benign, like asking any fellow Townspeople with useful powers to scan or track me (assuming any of us has such powers) or any other non-lethal method. Nope, he recommends that I be killed/attacked, by scum no less (because scum _love_ taking orders from townies!), in order to prove I’m a vanilla. And if I’m a Town power role as he suggests? Doesn’t matter if I die and my powers are no longer usable to Town; at least it’ll prove that **Astral** was right! Yep. He’s _clearly_ just trying to help Town. That said, if my death pleases and helps the rest of the Town, that’s fine – it serves a purpose, and I’m a-ok with that. Plus, I’m dying (pun intended) to find out what the heck **askthepizzaguy** has in store for deadies since he’s stated the game’s not over for them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/487 "2012-04-09T19:59:48Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I know nothing of what’s written on others’ sheets. However, I’m assuming other soldiers have identical powers to mine. This is a fair Day 1 assumption, which will break down on future days when we can select new roles or swap roles. Look at the damage values: 80, 80, 25, 75, 13, 100, 50, 50 and 60. Just one matches your claimed damage, the 13 could be the result of a protection, the two 50s could be lucky double damage due to elements but the others indicate different powers, levels, weapons or roles. Who did you attack and why? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/488 "2012-04-09T20:23:24Z")
> [@choie](#): > > So now **Astral** is issuing orders to scum to attack someone he thinks could be a power role Townie who’s outted herself. I don’t get where you’re coming from. I gave scum no orders. I said _if_ they attacked you and _if_ I was wrong, we’ve lost a vanilla town. By outing you, I’ve increased your chance of surviving. If I stay silent and scum noticed, you die. If I speak up and a protective role decides to protect you, you live. You’re acting like I outed you just to out you. Do you disagree with my stated reasoning? I wanted to prevent further accidental reveals and to help town make sense of Dusk. Re: who I attacked. Glee, indirectly. I had no read on BobAaarghh and attacked him just to see what would happen. What is the point of asking me? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/489 "2012-04-09T20:25:18Z")
NETA: at least, I think Glee is the one who defended BobArghh. I could be misremembering. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/490 "2012-04-09T20:35:06Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > NETA: at least, I think Glee is the one who defended BobArghh. I could be misremembering. you are assuming that the offer to defend and the HP losses are in order. I do not recommend we look at it that way with so little information ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/491 "2012-04-09T20:43:53Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > you are assuming that the offer to defend and the HP losses are in order. > I do not recommend we look at it that way with so little information I don’t follow. BobArghh, in the color, was only attacked once and was defended by glee. Glee then took half of the damage my attack would have caused. The simplest conclusion is that glee defended BobArghh from my attack. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/492 "2012-04-09T21:06:52Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I don’t follow. BobArghh, in the color, was only attacked once and was defended by glee. Glee then took half of the damage my attack would have caused. The simplest conclusion is that glee defended BobArghh from my attack. You assume much You claim you attacked **Bob** ( how could you know he was only attacked once?) - someone \* said they would protect \*\* Bob \*\* “I’ll protect you, BobArrgh!” shouts another. 7 players took damage \*\* Visorslash \*\* from the orb and \*\* Inner \*\* _maybe_ in the protection of \*\* Visorslash \*\* ( but he did jump out of the way.) That leaves 5 players that \*\* might \*\* have taken damage protecting or being attacked I’m not certain that our mod would leave all actions in tidy order. And because we know different elements have an effect on the damage caused I’m not comfortable assuming that’s what happened. (of course Glee could pop in and say they protected Bob but I don’t think that’s wise either) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/493 "2012-04-09T21:07:48Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > We haven’t heard from Inner yet, right? What do you want to hear from Inner? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/494 "2012-04-09T21:09:13Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > NETA: at least, I think Glee is the one who defended BobArghh. I could be misremembering. Are we sure of that? Consider the following (snipped from the Dusk post): > [@](#): > > Lord Phere takes 80hp damage. > > The great Demon Lord barely flinches. The blow doesn’t even faze the massive beast, but another plucky Adventurer approaches, and takes another swing. > > Lord Phere takes 80hp damage. > > … > > In the melee, some of the Adventurers were wounded. But in the confusion, they could not tell who was attacking whom… in fact, most of the damage was self-inflicted. > > Was it by design? Or was it accidental? > > Nevertheless… > > Lightfoot takes 25hp damage. > > “Hey! Cut it out!” Shrieks Lightfoot. > > “I’ll protect you, Visorslash!” shouts someone else. > > Inner Stickler takes 75hp damage. > > “I’ll protect you, BobArrgh!” shouts another. > > Glee takes 13hp damage. > > “I’ll protect you, Visorslash!” shouts Inner Stickler. “Woah! What the hell is that?” he says, diving out of the path of danger. A magical orb hits Visorslash directly in the chest. > > Visorslash takes 100hp damage. > > “Yes, pathetic weaklings, yes… taste but a TINY FRACTION of my extraordinary POWER!!!” > > ToeJam takes 50hp damage. > > “I’ll protect you, Inner Stickler!” shouts someone else.“Yowza! Maybe I shouldn’t have done that!” > > GuiriEnEspana takes 50hp damage. And then in the next post, with no context at all, we learn > [@](#): > > Red Skeezix takes 60hp damage. If we assume that the color reflects events in chronological order and that the protections are directly related to the damage that follow them, then we have: [ul][li]Visorslash and another person attack Lord Phere for 80 damage each[/li][li]Someone (possible another adventurer) attacks LightFoot for 25 damage[/li][li]Someone attacks Visorslash, but Inner Stickler protects him and takes 75 damage[/li][li]Someone (Astral, by his own admission) attacked BobArrgh, but glee protects him and takes 13 damage[/li][li]Inner Sticker tries to protect Visorslash but fails, and Visor takes 100 damage[/li][li]Someone (Lord Phere?) attacks ToeJam for 50 damage[/li][li]Someone attacks Inner, but Guiri protects him and takes 50 damage[/li][li]And somewhere in amongst all the other goings on, Red Skeezix is attacked for 60 damage.[/ul][/li] This would imply that the people protecting others do so by absorbing the damage that would otherwise have been inflicted upon their protectee. Perhaps **Inner Stickler** can tell us if that is his understanding, since he is the one person who was named as having performed, or at least attempted, a protective action. Also, assuming the events are listed in chronological order requires us to know when the attack on **Red Skeezix** happened; since we were not told the most likely explanation is that it is not relevant. If we don’t assume a direct relationship between the actions listed, then our events look more like this: [ul][li]Visorslash and another person attack Lord Phere for 80 damage each[/li][li]Someone (Astral, by his own admission) attacks BobArrgh[/li][li]Someone protects BobArrgh (successfully)[/li][li]Someone attacks glee for 13 damage[/li][li]Someone attacks Guiri for 50 damage[/li][li]Someone attacks Inner Stickler for 75 damage[/li][li]Someone protects Inner Stickler (unsuccessfully?)[/li][li]Someone (possible another adventurer) attacks LightFoot for 25 damage[/li][li]Someone attacks Red Skeezix 60 damage[/li][li]Someone (Lord Phere?) attacks ToeJam for 50 damage[/li][li]Someone attacks Visorslash. Inner Sticker tries to protect him but fails, and Visor takes 100 damage[/li][li]Someone protects Visorslash (successfully, from a second attack?)[/li][/ul] It’s interesting that there’s no evidence of anyone trying to protect someone who was not attacked. I suppose it could be that those actions were simply not reported, since they had no impact on the actual events. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/495 "2012-04-09T21:09:41Z")
I still don’t get what you guys are saying about BobArghh and glee. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/496 "2012-04-09T21:12:05Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I don’t follow. BobArghh, in the color, was only attacked once and was defended by glee. Glee then took half of the damage my attack would have caused. The simplest conclusion is that glee defended BobArghh from my attack. No, you’re still assuming facts not in evidence. we know: Someone protected **BobArrgh** Someone inflicted 13 HP damage on **glee**. We do not know that those two events are related. They \*may \*be, but there is no evidence to prove tha. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/497 "2012-04-09T21:13:30Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What do you want to hear from Inner? I’d like to know if the 75 HP of damage you took was as a direct result of your protection of **Visorslash**. Did you absorb some of the damage that was directed at him? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/498 "2012-04-09T21:13:47Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I don’t get where you’re coming from. I gave scum no orders. I said _if_ they attacked you and _if_ I was wrong, we’ve lost a vanilla town. By outing you, I’ve increased your chance of surviving. If I stay silent and scum noticed, you die. If I speak up and a protective role decides to protect you, you live. Hmm, maybe I misread your line here: > [@Astral](#): > > Further, if I’m wrong, scum kill a vanilla Choie.. Sorry to be callous, but in the greater scheme of things, that’s not the worst possible outcome of Night 1. I was seeing that third clause “scum kill a vanilla choie” as an imperative. As in, “Scum: kill a vanilla choie.” But I may definitely have misread that, in which case, sorry 'bout that. > [@](#): > > You’re acting like I outed you just to out you. Do you disagree with my stated reasoning? I wanted to prevent further accidental reveals and to help town make sense of Dusk. If that was your reasoning… well, I do still disagree, because a) my alleged outting of myself as a power role, true or false, was apparently obscure to everyone but you, in which case it wasn’t actually “out” until you outted it yourself, and the end result was that b) you gave away stuff from the vanilla PM, and c) you were outting someone you were assuming was a power role Townie who’d outted herself, both of which _are_ helping scum, whether intentional or not. But if you’re townie, I can accept that you meant well. It’s just that “if,” y’know? It’s still an “if.” ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/499 "2012-04-09T21:15:46Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What do you want to hear from Inner? Did you choose to protect Visorslash? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/500 "2012-04-09T21:16:49Z")
I never assumed you were a power role. That’s been the focus of my commentary because that’s what we’ve been talking about, but several other options are also likely: 1. you’re scum 2. you’re vanilla and I’m wrong 3. you’re third-party of some kind [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=26)