# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/621 "2012-04-10T16:41:23Z")
I think it’s possible, by the way, that Pizza’s Lord Phere is actually the MAIN antagonist. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/622 "2012-04-10T16:41:38Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > For mage class or magically aligned characters, it says in the OP. I guess I am outing myself as a non-Soldier here. Didn’t someone claim Soldier? Maybe they could say whether or not they have an element. \*Are \*you ‘outing yourself’ as a non-Soldier? You don’t seem quite sure in this post. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/623 "2012-04-10T16:42:46Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > ~~snipped~~ > \*As an aside, people have brought up Visorslash as potential beneficiary, but I don’t think that holds. By the time Mosier became a reasonable alternative lynch, Visorslash no longer was in any real danger himself. I think. Somebody correct me if I’m remembering wrong. Like I said before. We don’t know if the order was sent in early or late. So any of the 3 \* could \* have been the intended beneficiary ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/624 "2012-04-10T16:44:36Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I expected you to (a) modulate your tone with me (i.e., stop being so darn mistrustful), since I showed a good faith effort to share information with you; and (b) continue the PM correspondence by making a good faith effort of your own to respond in kind. You have done neither. > > You don’t need to take my PM at face value. You can, however, evaluate its credibility. You’re smart. You can make probabilistic determinations and take them into account when posting. You have not done so that I can see. Well, I did; I just didn’t “show my work” explicitly. My problem, besides the issue with the saving from lynch stuff, is that it’s not my expectation that any relatively normal role claim, whether demonstrable or not, is proof of not being scum. I’m glad to have the information; it helps slightly that I got it quickly after asking; and it’s possible it may help you to prove something about your status or your actions down the road. But it just can’t remove the distrust and put you on my likelier townie than not list. If you’re town, Gadarene, sorry. That’s just not the way I work. Maybe you’ll have better luck elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/625 "2012-04-10T16:45:48Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Like I said before. We don’t know if the order was sent in early or late. So any of the 3 \* could \* have been the intended beneficiary My point wasn’t about the timing as regards Visorslash, but as regards Mosier being remotely anywhere near the lead such that adding votes to him coudl save anyone at all, durign any period of time when Visorslash was also in danger. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/626 "2012-04-10T16:51:42Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > does that _necessarily mean “someone attacked **Inner Stickler** , but **Guiri** protected him, and as a result took 50 HP damage”?[/color]_ I guarded Inner yesterDay and received damage doing so. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/627 "2012-04-10T17:00:11Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Underlined for emphasis. Nobody’s telling you not to go after scum. How do you know who are scum? Do you think it would be a good idea for half the town to be, in effect, mandatory vigs shooting wildly into the crowd? No, that certainly wouldn’t be a good idea. As to the other questions, it’s very possible, in fact quite likely, that I misinterpreted the call to action. 😃 It sounded as if some folks were pressing us to spend time not searching for scum, but rather to kill the demon. To me, that seems like a waste of time, since – considering it’s played by the GM – the demon doesn’t seem likely to be killed. The reason why I think this: if you look at the color when you were _almost_ lynched but **Mosier** was killed in your stead, there was no mention of a literal “lynch” at all, for either of you. There wasn’t even an indication that we as Town thought you were guilty and wanted you dead. Instead, the “lynch” was changed into a fight with the Demon. So I’ve been assuming that there is no real “lynch” mechanic in this game, and that player who’s at the top, votewise, will have to fight the Demon. That’s how s/he’ll die. This being the case, I can’t see how attacking the Demon will do any good, considering Its role in “lynching” the top votegetter seems necessary to the game. Maybe I’m wrong and the color means nothing. I’ve never played a **pizzaguy** game before, so it could be that the color is only the equivalent of playing dress-up. That’s basically how it was in my last game ( **The Thrill of the Chase** ). Nevertheless, I’m just trying to keep us focused on areas that make sense, rather than on experiences that could very well be fruitless. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I’m almost positive that’s the case, based on a couple questions I asked by PM. :dubious: Was there a reason you weren’t sharing with the rest of the class? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/628 "2012-04-10T17:01:26Z")
Normal: what is your case for me being scum? (1) I piggybacked Guiri’s Astral vote and didn’t give my reasoning until later. (2) You think the reasoning I gave for my Astral vote was flimsy and/or faked. (3) You think I was the beneficiary of a scum save through the extra Mosier votes. (4) You think my dead post was an elaborate ploy on my part. (5) You think my self-defense in this thread has been scummy. (6) You think my general tone has been scummy. Which one or more of the above best describes your stance? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/629 "2012-04-10T17:04:23Z")
Normal, I would like you to PM me some information about your role, however little or much you want as long as it’s non-zero. choie, I think the chances are effectively zero that killing Lord Phere would remove our ability to lynch people, since lynching people is at the heart of Mafia. I think it’s more likely that Lord Phere plain can’t be killed (evidence to the contrary, such as him taking damage, notwithstanding), and I think it’s most likely that Lord Phere _can_ be killed and that doing so would either be a net neutral or net positive (depending how/when it is accomplished and what we give up in order to accomplish it) for Town. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/630 "2012-04-10T17:09:41Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > choie, I think the chances are effectively zero that killing Lord Phere would remove our ability to lynch people, since lynching people is at the heart of Mafia. I think it’s more likely that Lord Phere plain can’t be killed (evidence to the contrary, such as him taking damage, notwithstanding), and I think it’s most likely that Lord Phere _can_ be killed and that doing so would either be a net neutral or net positive (depending how/when it is accomplished and what we give up in order to accomplish it) for Town. I wasn’t saying that killing Lord Phere would remove our ability to lynch anyone, I was saying that since this seems to be the method by which we _are_ “lynching” people, I think he’s unkillable, probably until the very endgame if we (Town) win. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/631 "2012-04-10T17:11:27Z")
Another (admittedly meta) reason I think Phere’s nonkillable: I think our GM is having too much fun playing him to let him be vanquished. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/632 "2012-04-10T17:18:32Z")
I think Gadarene is very likely to be Town, and so is Normal Phase. (If she were Scum, might she not instead toy with Gadarene’s affections? 😃 ) In my early game with Normal Phase, when she was the Town heroine, I demonstrated a Townish Power to her, almost at her insistence, and she remained skeptical. (Hi, **Scooby Doo**!) I’m also inclined to think Inner Stickler gives off strong Town vibes, but have a question: In prior games when he was Town he tended to be quiet, but he is talkative in this game. I assume this is unrelated to alignment (perhaps due to RL), but could it possibly be Inner’s scum tell? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/633 "2012-04-10T17:26:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Do you do inspections at Night? sorry, I should have mentioned this - yes, I do my inspections at Night; so, you’ll need to get your item(s) to me during the Day in order to avoid a delay in their return > [@septimus](#): > > Does anyone else have services to offer for sale? I’m also curious about this. aside from whatever secret ability you might have, I imagine there might be at least a market opportunity for the exchange of more obvious services like protection and attacks. I’d be willing to consider exchanging my inspection service for something like this in lieu of actual gold. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I’m considering hiring you, obviously. and as a morally conscious consumer, you’re concerned that you might be inadvertently funding a terrorist organization and/or act? > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Anyway, folks, I regret the bone-headed error, and I can’t fix diddley squat in the thread itself since, well, I can’t edit anything. But I have Glee defending Bob instead of the obvious, which was supposed to be the other way around. So if you could all mentally correct your notes and say that Bob took 25 damage, and no one protected him, I’ll try not to shriek too loud from sheer embarrassment. you should compensate everyone with some free gold maybe? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/634 "2012-04-10T18:58:33Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Are you confirming that > > a) you have a protective ability, and > b) that it functions by redirecting 50% of the incoming damage from your target to yourself? Yes, I can Guard one person. They take no damage; I take 50% of the original. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/635 "2012-04-10T19:02:40Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > I do my inspections at Night; so, you’ll need to get your item(s) to me during the Day in order to avoid a delay in their return > > I’m also curious about this. aside from whatever secret ability you might have, I imagine there might be at least a market opportunity for the exchange of more obvious services like protection and attacks. I’d be willing to consider exchanging my inspection service for something like this in lieu of actual gold. As I’ve mentioned, I have a Pendant of unknown magic. So far you’re the only one who’s offered to Identify it. I don’t have much gold, but I can protect people. Are you interested in an exchange of services? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/636 "2012-04-10T20:06:38Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > My point wasn’t about the timing as regards Visorslash, but as regards Mosier being remotely anywhere near the lead such that adding votes to him coudl save anyone at all, durign any period of time when Visorslash was also in danger. I see what you intended there now ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/637 "2012-04-10T20:09:23Z")
Interesting \*\* fubbleskag \*\* is in a position to find out who has magical items ( well if people tell that is). Claims to be able to tell you what they do. And gets your gold / services for the privilege. I’m a tad wary meself. Now, does he hold the item overnight whilst inspecting it? Can he use it while he has it? Are you unable to use it while he has it? If he has it and you die, does he get to keep it? is it wise to solicit his services in public? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/638 "2012-04-10T20:11:57Z")
> [@choie](#): > > :dubious: Was there a reason you weren’t sharing with the rest of the class? No, it was more that I didn’t realize the answer to my PM could more or less settle that question (or even that it was still a question) until it was asked. Pizza was willing to tell me specifically and openly what part of the write-up meant (one of the protections; and no, I didn’t attack anyone this past day), which means it’s no secret/not meant to be any sort of mystery that Inner protected Visorslash and Guiri protected Inner. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/639 "2012-04-10T20:21:19Z")
I have reason to believe that fubbleskag is neither Town- nor Scum-aligned. fubbles, what say you? You just in it for the gold and the wealth? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/640 "2012-04-10T20:24:33Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Normal: what is your case for me being scum? > > (1) I piggybacked Guiri’s Astral vote and didn’t give my reasoning until later. No, that barely rates above paranoia, though your insistence a couple of times that you HAD given reasoning (ignoring the votes were for not giving reasoning immediately) grates, to say the least. I’d have voted you yesterday over one of the people I have a somewhat townie read on, but not otherwise. The case was not a great one. > [@](#): > > (2) You think the reasoning I gave for my Astral vote was flimsy and/or faked. No, the reasoning was fine. Better put than Guiri’s, if I had to choose. > [@](#): > > (3) You think I was the beneficiary of a scum save through the extra Mosier votes. Yes, I consider this a strong enough possibility that I can’t trust you. > [@](#): > > (4) You think my dead post was an elaborate ploy on my part. If scum then a ploy, but not really an elaborate one, more of an obvious thing to try, in order to deflect the fallout. > [@](#): > > (5) You think my self-defense in this thread has been scummy. You are one of the more irritating self-defenders I’ve come across lately (and this is not at all personal; I don’t know how else to describe it). I think your logic in your own defense fails as often as not – see my previous comments and the bit above. It’s hard for me not to read deception into that, though my head says “null tell” as it’s something I’ve seen often enough from townies. > [@](#): > > (6) You think my general tone has been scummy. No. Does that give you an idea where I’m coming from? If not, I"m not sure what else possibly could. I don’t want to give you any information about my role. I am stingier than stingy about that most of the time (ask Pizza about the time he lynched me because I refused to tell him, in a small game with just one or two power roles, that I was _vanilla_), unless I trust you, in which case I’ll talk your ear off. But I have one significant reason NOT to trust you, Gad, and I have not seen sufficient from you to outweigh that at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=33)