# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/801 "2012-04-12T03:30:36Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i’m not sure what you’re worried about. barring recruitment, you can’t become scum or town because of an alignment change. at least that’s that’s how i understand it. all you’ve done is imply you have a class that requires a specific alignment and therefore not vanilla. …No, it’s more that I _want_ a class that requires a specific alignment. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > something isn’t automatically underhanded just because it takes place outside the game thread; I know that this is a foreign concept on the dope, but it’s something **ATPG** has done more than once elsewhere True enough, but I don’t think trading votes for items, especially when the person clearly intended to gain the most from all these secretive exchanges appears to be the only person who knows what these gems _do_, is either wise or pro-Town. I can’t fathom why anyone would take you up on this agreement when you have the knowledge and they have none. If it was open and aboveboard, why _not_ make the offer in public? My guess is: because you want to pick up the most pretties in the end, and because you know how they work. I’ll ask it plainly: how does this help Town, **fubbles**? ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/802 "2012-04-12T03:31:28Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > something isn’t automatically underhanded just because it takes place outside the game thread; I know that this is a foreign concept on the dope, but it’s something **ATPG** has done more than once elsewhere > > I would expect so as well. this is what i meant when people would find private communication suspicious. PMing and chatting are just tools. it can be used to coordinate attacks, to try to catch a suspected scum in a slip, to try to get a townie to say something suspicious (if you’re scum), negotiate with people (ex **fubbles** ) on services. can you imagine **fubbles** and someone posting 20 times on thread to agree on a price? what if you want to conceal what items you have? don’t tell me that’s scummy. after all only **glee** has declared ownership of an item. use or not use, that’s up to you. just don’t consider it a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/803 "2012-04-12T03:35:27Z")
> [@choie](#): > > …No, it’s more that I _want_ a class that requires a specific alignment. > > True enough, but I don’t think trading votes for items, especially when the person clearly intended to gain the most from all these secretive exchanges appears to be the only person who knows what these gems _do_, is either wise or pro-Town. I can’t fathom why anyone would take you up on this agreement when you have the knowledge and they have none. > > If it was open and aboveboard, why _not_ make the offer in public? My guess is: because you want to pick up the most pretties in the end, and because you know how they work. > > I’ll ask it plainly: how does this help Town, **fubbles**? it helps town if townies get their items identified. they will have to trust him. as i said before, there’s no incentive for dishonesty. if he is dishonest, he’s dead. is that clearer? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/804 "2012-04-12T03:36:41Z")
**Vote: sapphire ring to fubbleskag.** Please note: he will not be voting for me for an item. We made our own terms, which I’d prefer remain secret for now. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/805 "2012-04-12T03:41:07Z")
I woudln’t want price haggling back and forth in the game thread, true, but I felt the original announcement of the offer should’ve been in public, so at least everyone knows what’s going on. It could very well be I’m just not cut out for a **pizzaguy** game, where chaos reigns supreme, but I’ve gotta be me, and "me? is someone who prefers openness as much as possible when it comes to gameplay (within limits, obviously). We Townies have little enough information as it is, for pete’s sake. That’s the whole premise of the game. I want info so we have more of a level playing field with Scum. And rightly or wrongly, I just can’t help not trusting secretive people when Town is so starved for info. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/806 "2012-04-12T03:51:11Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > how about you just share **all** your information with us, rather than playing 20 questions - you can do that without revealing your “source”. refusing to share information that that the rest of us don’t have seems anti-Town to me. Why do you care so much, if you’re not Third Party? Someone I’ve been talking to relayed something that someone _they_ had been talking to said about a Third Party win condition to amass as much wealth as possible. The person that I’ve been talking to noted that such a win condition fit your behavior to a tee, and I agree. You haven’t exactly been allaying my suspicions with your responses. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/807 "2012-04-12T03:52:11Z")
fubbleskag is obviously Third Party. Not sure why Astral is helping him. And not sure how voting on these pendants and such is helping us catch scum. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/808 "2012-04-12T03:56:15Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I woudln’t want price haggling back and forth in the game thread, true, but I felt the original announcement of the offer should’ve been in public, so at least everyone knows what’s going on. > > It could very well be I’m just not cut out for a **pizzaguy** game, where chaos reigns supreme, but I’ve gotta be me, and "me? is someone who prefers openness as much as possible when it comes to gameplay (within limits, obviously). We Townies have little enough information as it is, for pete’s sake. That’s the whole premise of the game. I want info so we have more of a level playing field with Scum. And rightly or wrongly, I just can’t help not trusting secretive people when Town is so starved for info. I would have thought that as soon as two of us voted items for each other without any in-thread discussion it was pretty obvious what’s going on. I’m not sure how your second paragraph even remotely relates to vote swapping anyway. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/809 "2012-04-12T04:06:16Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Why do you care so much, if you’re not Third Party? why would I have to be 3rd party for the information to be useful to me? is the information about this 3rd party of no use to Town? > [@Gadarene](#): > > Someone I’ve been talking to relayed something that someone _they_ had been talking to said about a Third Party win condition to amass as much wealth as possible. The person that I’ve been talking to noted that such a win condition fit your behavior to a tee, and I agree. the guy who cuts my sister’s husband’s brother’s hair says you’re full of shit. > [@Gadarene](#): > > You haven’t exactly been allaying my suspicions with your responses. If you keep withholding the information you have about this 3rd party, you might want to focus on allaying our suspicions of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/810 "2012-04-12T04:08:36Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > If you keep withholding the information you have about this 3rd party, you might want to focus on allaying our suspicions of yourself. What are you talking about? I’ve told you what I know. And by your reaction you’re clearly Third Party, so we don’t really need to continue this exchange. Deal with fubbleskag at your peril, people, and hope that if he achieves his win condition it doesn’t mean that the rest of us lose. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/811 "2012-04-12T04:10:07Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > I would have thought that as soon as two of us voted items for each other without any in-thread discussion it was pretty obvious what’s going on. > > I’m not sure how your second paragraph even remotely relates to vote swapping anyway. It relates to _secret_ vote pimpery (you didn’t mention in your PM that you were doing any other vote swapping deals). This really isn’t hard to fathom, is it? Also, I don’t like the idea of the one person able to identify items also trying to amass more goodies than anyone else. “Oh, this one isn’t worth much, I’ll take it off your hands for 5 gold.” Eh, might as well start the day off already with a tentative **vote fubbleskag** ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/812 "2012-04-12T04:30:10Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > On my part? 😕 Really? Seemed like standard POG stuff. What about it didn’t you like? No, choie’s post I didn’t find particularly Townie. Not particularly Scummy or anything, but I don’t understand what struck you about it. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/813 "2012-04-12T04:36:46Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > speaking of alignment, “Good” doesn’t necessarily mean “Town” - so we shouldn’t be making any assumptions about the Towniness of any of our dead brethren so far, I should think. This is a good observation, though I suppose one could make the argument that Scum would almost by necessity be Evil. Regarding the Day’s other news… Obviously, \*\*fubbleskag \*\*and \*\*Visorslash \*\*worked out a deal with each other to try to acquire a couple items Today. Whatever. Anybody who doesn’t like it can just do something like this: **Pendant: Suburban Plankton Sapphire: Suburban Plankton Emerald: Suburban Plankton** And while we’re at it **vote Gadarene** Either open up your magic bag and let us see what’s inside, or shut up. Besides, my cat assures me you’re Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/814 "2012-04-12T04:44:43Z")
**Vote MHaye.** Now bed. Case making and revisiting thornier players tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/815 "2012-04-12T04:45:10Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It relates to _secret_ vote pimpery (you didn’t mention in your PM that you were doing any other vote swapping deals). I didn’t mention it because it should have been obvious - I’d already publicly swapped votes with someone else prior to making a similar offer to you. > [@choie](#): > > This really isn’t hard to fathom, is it? is the rhetorical implication that I’m a fucking moron necessary? > [@choie](#): > > Also, I don’t like the idea of the one person able to identify items also trying to amass more goodies than anyone else. “Oh, this one isn’t worth much, I’ll take it off your hands for 5 gold.” what makes you think I’m the only person that can identify items? even if I am, it’s clear from the write-up that this may not always be the case. also, it’s not technically possible for me to amass more goodies than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/816 "2012-04-12T04:45:43Z")
Thornier? “Other.” Autocorrect fail. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/817 "2012-04-12T04:46:13Z")
bedtime for real this time; 2 hours later my wife is furious and I’ve eaten half a pie. goddamnit. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/818 "2012-04-12T04:46:41Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Well, I’m with you fellas. > > [/o brother where art thou] Wow, this game has turned into Survivor. Scum won’t necessarily vote as a bloc here, because if one gets busted, everyone who is allied with them will come under suspicion. These kinds of in-thread things are good for Town (not like the attacks, which are anonymous). choie seems on the same wave length as me, not for any one post, but her general cautiousness about all these goings on. Choie, want to work together? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/819 "2012-04-12T04:59:06Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It relates to _secret_ vote pimpery (you didn’t mention in your PM that you were doing any other vote swapping deals). This really isn’t hard to fathom, is it? Also, I don’t like the idea of the one person able to identify items also trying to amass more goodies than anyone else. “Oh, this one isn’t worth much, I’ll take it off your hands for 5 gold.” I gotta agree. I’m just not sitting well with the fact that secret negotiations are being carried out behind the threads without a good paper trail. FOS **Fubbles** And **VisorSlash** - I really don’t like asshole tactics. I mean, they have a time and a place, so if you’re playing some master strategy fair enough. But our fair town needs to work together, and your behavior… well it’s not really helping us out. And the fact that you’re working with fubbles behind the scenes. Just =\ Also, just WIFOM, but to whoever said they were surprised by the healing- Clerics in D&D games are known as having “light/healing” magic. Clerics seem like the likeliest people to heal. And usually they and Pallys (paladins) tend to be of the Good alignment stereotypically, but in D&D they can fall and be Evil as well. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/820 "2012-04-12T07:34:40Z")
As I’ve said, I think Lightfoot, gnarlycharlie, Normal Phase, choie, and GuiriEnEspaña are all Townies, and I hope some of them advertise their desire to win one of the magic items. If other Townies cooperate, at least we can ensure these items don’t pass to Scum or 3rd Parties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=42)