# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1081 "2012-04-13T21:22:55Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Wonders why I protected Inner. > Cannot imagine why someone would decide to protect Inner. > But no “if” about Inner being Town?Seems to imply a town Inner.Of course, she was right all along. > > Choie, your suspicion about my protection doesn’t sit with your own claimed opinion of Inner, why were you so confused/curious? Well, because the only reason\* I\* had for giving **Inner** the benefit of the doubt was meta (past game experience at having twice voted him, helped to lynch him, only to find out he’d been Town – both times, dammit!). I know that’s illogical and silly, but hey. I own that. 🙂 But you hadn’t given any reason for protecting him at great risk to your own life (at least, I didn’t remember you giving a reason). Once he turned out to be Town (or at least Good, assuming they’re both the same thing) your protection could’ve been good luck (if you’re Town) or face-saving/alibi-giving (if you’re Scum) later on. Or, I dunno, you could’ve just wanted some XP and **Inner** was the lucky beneficiary. Whatever the reason, I wanted to know what it was. Is that unusual? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1082 "2012-04-13T21:23:55Z")
_That last message brought to you by the Society for the Promotion of Parentheses. Please give generously._ ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1083 "2012-04-13T21:31:05Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > **Is there a possibility of Recruitment in this game?** There will be no involuntary alignment shifts/team switches. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1084 "2012-04-13T21:33:22Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Whatever the reason, I wanted to know what it was. Is that unusual? Nope, not at all. The ususual bit was your act that you had absolutely no idea why anyone in the world would consider protecting Inner while strongly implying that you thought he was Town in your other posts. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1085 "2012-04-13T21:42:07Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I meant to ask you earlier, did you have information about Bob’s hit points, were you concerned he might die in the attack? Why not MHaye? Why not see what would happen defending? I had (at the time) 300 hit points. I had no reason to suspect my 25-hit-point attack would slay BobArrgh. Now I have 400, and I suspect others have gone up by a similar amount. Attacking MHaye was unlikely to change my opinion about him. I had no read on BobArghh, and I thought his reaction to getting attacked might possibly rattle him, and his reaction could be telling. Of course, now that I know the results of all attacks are publicly revealed, that strategy won’t work the way I intended. Why not defend? I had no reason at the time to think people would be aware of defends, so I deemed it unlikely to provide any additional information. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1086 "2012-04-13T21:44:33Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Nope, not at all. The ususual bit was your act that you had absolutely no idea why anyone in the world would consider protecting Inner while strongly implying that you thought he was Town in your other posts. It wasn’t an act, though that’s some nice smudging by framing it as one. I just told you why I was thinking (hoping) he was Town. I’d learned not to think of **Inner** as scummy even though his overly helpful performance often comes across as _too_ helpful. I’ve learned now that it’s just **Inner** being **Inner**. It’s a null tell. You, however, failed to give any reason for quite a while after you did your “Here I come to save the day!” Mighty Mouse impersonation. Protecting someone specific at risk of your own life (or at least hp) is a lot stranger (an unusual choice for someone presumably without knowledge of the guy’s guilt or innocence). In fact it’s odd that you’re bringing up something that reflects far worse on you than it does on me. Weird strategy, this. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1087 "2012-04-13T21:52:11Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I had (at the time) 300 hit points. I had no reason to suspect my 25-hit-point attack would slay BobArrgh. Now I have 400, and I suspect others have gone up by a similar amount. Oh. Do you know if the increase was a result of your attack? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Attacking MHaye was unlikely to change my opinion about him. I had no read on BobArghh, and I thought his reaction to getting attacked might possibly rattle him, and his reaction could be telling. Of course, now that I know the results of all attacks are publicly revealed, that strategy won’t work the way I intended. Do you mean, had the results been secret, you were going to see if he started acting differently? Why do the results being public change that? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Why not defend? I had no reason at the time to think people would be aware of defends, so I deemed it unlikely to provide any additional information. People being the protectee, right? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1088 "2012-04-13T22:14:26Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It wasn’t an act, though that’s some nice smudging by framing it as one. I just told you why I was thinking (hoping) he was Town. I’d learned not to think of **Inner** as scummy even though his overly helpful performance often comes across as _too_ helpful. I’ve learned now that it’s just **Inner** being **Inner**. It’s a null tell. So it wasn’t “beyond you” why someone would consider protecting him? > [@choie](#): > > You, however, failed to give any reason for quite a while after you did your “Here I come to save the day!” Mighty Mouse impersonation. Protecting someone specific at risk of your own life (or at least hp) is a lot stranger (an unusual choice for someone presumably without knowledge of the guy’s guilt or innocence). Quite a while? Inner asked after midnight in #648, you asked in #650, Weedy in #662, Lightfoot in #663, Gadarene in #664, you again with a different tone in #666, and I replied at 8am in #688… And Might Mouse, really? > [@choie](#): > > In fact it’s odd that you’re bringing up something that reflects far worse on you than it does on me. Weird strategy, this. I’m not seeing that, I’m questioning an inconsistency in your approach to Inner. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1089 "2012-04-13T22:24:13Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Oh. Do you know if the increase was a result of your attack? Possibly. I gained a level and changed my class, but that levelup could be from my vote, the attack, or both. > [@](#): > > Do you mean, had the results been secret, you were going to see if he started acting differently? Why do the results being public change that? Because its no longer in isolation. Everybody knows about the attacks, and everyone can comment on them. > [@](#): > > People being the protectee, right? Correct. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1090 "2012-04-13T22:43:38Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > So it wasn’t “beyond you” why someone would consider protecting him? Being willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt because of my having twice in two games incorrectly voted to lynch him is one thing. That’s fairly passive support: “I won’t vote you guilty.” Taking one’s life in one’s hands, without any reason to know whether he’s Town, or has any special value more than yourself, is quite another. If someone hadn’t been really _really_ _ **really** _ nice and healed you, you’d be pretty low in hit points right now. That was a serious risk to take for someone you couldn’t have known was Town. Now _that_ is active support. “Not only won’t I vote for you, but I’ll save your life at the possible expense of my own, that’s how valuable you are to me!” Hell that’s not just active, that’s reckless (potential) martyrdom. You really don’t see a difference? Heck, the fact that several people asked you why you did it is proof that it was an unusual act of selflessness or trust… or PIS. > [@](#): > > Quite a while? Inner asked after midnight in #648, you asked in #650, Weedy in #662, Lightfoot in #663, Gadarene in #664, you again with a different tone in #666, and I replied at 8am in #688… And Might Mouse, really? I dunno, forty posts seems like a long time to me. But then I’m usually up hella late at night, so I can be less aware of how time passes than those of you who are in slumberland. Things stretch on and on at night in this game, especially because fewer people are posting. (You’re offended 'cause I equated you with Mighty Mouse? Does that character have a different connotation in your neck of the woods? He’s the little dude who saves the damsel in distress. It’s a heroic thing.) ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1091 "2012-04-13T22:49:28Z")
for your information I will be off work \* shite what a day \* in about an hour and I have been informed that the home computer has crashed. I will be standing on my head to get it fixed ASAP. I wanted to explain my absence beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1092 "2012-04-13T22:51:07Z")
**Is there a relationship between alignment and faction (scum vs town)? Does finding someone to be Good mean they weren’t against the town?** ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1093 "2012-04-13T22:53:38Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Possibly. I gained a level and changed my class, but that levelup could be from my vote, the attack, or both. I don’t see why you would lie about this, but according to the rules, you’re not supposed to be able to both gain a level and change class in the same Day: “Any round where you place a vote during the day, and do not switch character classes, you are awarded one experience level. You do not have to successfully lynch a mafioso or use a special ability.” You said you were vanilla? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1094 "2012-04-13T22:58:56Z")
Oops, forget to respond to this: > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I’m not seeing that Oh come now. You don’t see how highlighting your own act of protecting someone you couldn’t have _known_ was town only serves to remind us that you did something that pretty much only someone who was _sure_ a guy was Town would have done? You’re smarter than that. This statement is astonishingly disingenuous. > [@](#): > > , I’m questioning an inconsistency in your approach to Inner. There’s no inconsistency at all in my approach toward _him_. The only way I looked at **Inner** was to remind myself that he might be one of the good guys despite being helpful\*, so I didn’t want to vote for him without much more proof. What I really think is that you’re under the impression that my approach to _you_ saving **Inner** is a change in my feelings toward **Inner** , when in fact it’s actually just a reflection on my wariness about you. Because all I saw was a guy who presumably _knew_ **Inner** was town and _knew_ he would be attacked and _knew_ he’d look darn good afterwards. Actually I don’t think you’re scum. But the more you behave so disingenuously, and so non-Guiriesque, the more you worry me. - Heh. Only in Mafia would such a sentence make sense! ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1095 "2012-04-13T23:21:53Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Being willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt because of my having twice in two games incorrectly voted to lynch him is one thing. That’s fairly passive support: “I won’t vote you guilty.” > > Taking one’s life in one’s hands, without any reason to know whether he’s Town, or has any special value more than yourself, is quite another. If someone hadn’t been really _really_ _ **really** _ nice and healed you, you’d be pretty low in hit points right now. That was a serious risk to take for someone you couldn’t have known was Town. Now _that_ is active support. “Not only won’t I vote for you, but I’ll save your life at the possible expense of my own, that’s how valuable you are to me!” Hell that’s not just active, that’s reckless (potential) martyrdom. > > You really don’t see a difference? Heck, the fact that several people asked you why you did it is proof that it was an unusual act of selflessness or trust… or PIS. OK, I think I see the disconnect, I explained my thought process in [#688](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14954921&postcount=688), I didn’t consider it a big risk, I was using my power the best way I could. > [@choie](#): > > I dunno, forty posts seems like a long time to me. But then I’m usually up hella late at night, so I can be less aware of how time passes than those of you who are in slumberland. Things stretch on and on at night in this game, especially because fewer people are posting. Forty or 400 posts, I’m not going to respond while I’m sleeping! Just like I intend to do now. > [@choie](#): > > (You’re offended 'cause I equated you with Mighty Mouse? Does that character have a different connotation in your neck of the woods? He’s the little dude who saves the damsel in distress. It’s a heroic thing.) No, not offended, I thought you were referring to something I’d said and I don’t recall making any sort of hero claim. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1096 "2012-04-13T23:27:16Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > As things stand, of that list I would be happy to see pot shots taken at (or more organized vig attempts used on) Tanaer, lilflower or Skeezix. They really all need to show up to do more than just place a vote and leave, too; that’ll look like they’re just trying to avoid mod-kill. [OOC] This thing from Normal is as far as I’ve gotten in read-through. I wish the game had started earlier when I had more time. Now school is sucking up my life, and my attention - I’m finding it hard to retain impressions. No doubt my newbness doesn’t help. (I suppose I could read backward but then so many references would man next to nothing.) I think perhaps me not being able to get a vote in speaks a bit to my busy-ness. Probably I will get lynched for it at some point. Oh well. I wish I had time to play effectively - I love this game, RP possibilities, figuring out the game as well as the scum. I have the following things to say (as of post 93-something) Gad: I sympathise with the frustration with the voting. I spent an entire game double- and triple- thinking suspicions on you because everyone said how well you played scum. This time I’m just going on impressions, and you may well get a protect from me at the end of the day if things go as they are. That said, I know Weedy has played with you a lot. I can confirm that my item matches my element. Some interesting possibilities: a) the items may be damaging to players of a different element, or debuff, or just debuff an opposing element. b) some items may not be compatible with each other Regarding tally-affecting powers - These might not be simple extra votes. Eg make your vote count twice double the vote on a player (ok that’s extreme) protect a player - move x votes to the next player down the tally, or more. make someone else’s vote count twice I’m guessing there’s more than one. Anyway I’m sick of being OOC now. I probably can’t get back online for at least 10, maybe 13 hours. [/OOC] Adventurers who say with such import that old Lord Phere should never be attacked are thinking with a mind quite limited in how he has his influences stacked - Perhaps were I to take to him with sword And others of you fight him in your way, his influence might be a trifle less and he may hurt us less this coming day. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1097 "2012-04-14T00:15:22Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > OK, I think I see the disconnect, I explained my thought process in [#688](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14954921&postcount=688), I didn’t consider it a big risk, I was using my power the best way I could. That makes sense. I didn’t know of that, since I think our roles are all slightly different, which may be why we’re all so wary of each other (even more than usual). I don’t think there’s a standard PM, one-size-fits-all for Townies. Obviously we shouldn’t go into any further details, but I think **pizzaguy** made certain handshaking was not only against the rules, it’s almost impossible because there’s nothing identical to handshake. I think that’s why it takes so long for him to send out all the PMs and updates and whatnot. Anyway, that’s why I really didn’t focus on your seemingly would-be martyr behavior afterwards, especially as the game wore on and the… shall we say, eccentricity?.. of this game’s rules was made more apparent to me. Old habits (well, as old as they can get after two games) die hard, and I simply wasn’t used to people risking themselves on strangers without knowing (or at least strongly suspecting) they’re a power role. Since **Inner** didn’t turn out to have a power role, and I didn’t recall any clues earlier indicating why you’d have thought so, I did find it mystifying – unless you were trying to make yourself look good. But really that’s backwards thinking, because even a newbie Mafia player would know that knowing too much about another player’s alignment makes you look bad. And you ain’t no newbie. Honestly I didn’t suspect you at all since that time until you started going after me just now, and I remembered that whole defense thing. I think that defense tactics turning into offense tactics is natural but really, not helpful. Sorry about that. > [@](#): > > Forty or 400 posts, I’m not going to respond while I’m sleeping! Just like I intend to do now. > > No, not offended, I thought you were referring to something I’d said and I don’t recall making any sort of hero claim. Yeah, I think the whole misunderstanding was just a time zone thing. You’re what, five hours ahead of me? (I’m in NY, US.) So you’d’ve been sleeping while I was naturally still awake, and even when I _should’ve_ been sleeping, I was still awake. So as I said, the time stretched like a big stretchy thing. Anyway, the dialogue.. it was related to what “Guiri” had said in the color narrative courtesy of our puppetmaster playwright. “I’ll protect you, Inner!” – and twice, I believe. That’s the Mighty Mouse thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1098 "2012-04-14T00:47:46Z")
Just because someone is voting you or accusing you, doesn’t make them scum. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1099 "2012-04-14T00:57:26Z")
To quote Bette Davis in _All About Eve_, that’s what I said, bub. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1100 "2012-04-14T01:03:35Z")
Tanaer is awesome with the iambs, and is probably town as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=56)