# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1121 "2012-04-14T04:28:20Z")
That “u” shoulda been an “I”. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1122 "2012-04-14T04:39:14Z")
If anyone knows C#, I know of an automated vote counter that could probably adapted for use on the Dope fairly easily. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1123 "2012-04-14T06:28:13Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > I do find it interesting that \*\* Astral \*\* claims more information from the Mod.. Paired with the vote shenannigans it gives me pause.. interesting… 1. Why is the limited amount of additional info I’ve gotten from the moderator (regarding my leveling up) interesting to you? 2. What do those two things have to do with each other? I fail to see what’s inherently scummy about getting info from the moderator. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1124 "2012-04-14T08:20:03Z")
> [@PetW](#): > > **Is there a relationship between alignment and faction (scum vs town)?** No comment. > [@](#): > > **Does finding someone to be Good mean they weren’t against the town?** No comment. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1125 "2012-04-14T09:22:50Z")
> [@rules](#): > > Any round where you place a vote during the day, and do not switch character classes, you are awarded one experience level. You do not have to successfully lynch a mafioso or use a special ability. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I sent Pizza a pm saying u wanted to change from a basic soldier to an archer, which had a +1 in front of it. Since I’m now an archer, I assumed that meant I went up a level. I suspect the confusion comes from our use of “changing class.” You were using it in the sense of “changing from soldier to Mage”? > > Regardless, I had forgotten that it was the vote that enabled leveling up. That’s the answer to your question, then! No, I understood “round” as a full Day/Night cycle. With that interpretation, you wouldn’t have reached the new level until Dawn toDay and so couldn’t already have become an archer with new hit points. The mod has clarified the rules for me so, if anyone else had the same interpretation as me, it is apparently possible to gain a level during the Day (by voting) and then switch to a new class that same Night. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1126 "2012-04-14T11:55:34Z")
I chatted with Tanaer today. I don’t expect anyone to take my word for it, but I think she’s probably Town. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1127 "2012-04-14T11:59:52Z")
Hoo boy, have I fallen behind since Wednesday (I spent the day filling out a job application. Wish me luck.) As luck would have it, I only have a limited time to catch up, and more to do than I realised. The name of the game is apt. Time to tart my second read, so I’ll take up comment-as-I-go. [post=14947698]Post 391[/post] Normal Phase presents her impression of my first vote. I’m not going to quote it because, as far as I can tell, it boils down to her believing it Mafia-inspired because that’s the way _she_ believes Mafia thinks. I think differently. (What a surprise eh?) I’d already discussed my reaction to both the running bandwagons, and said I found their size suspicious. I used that as a way to narrow down the people to look at for a first vote. As for the last point, the vote grew out of the analysis – that is, I typed up that stuff, _then_ placed a vote because that was the worst of the bunch (which isn’t saying much) and because of the mechanism that encourages not missing out a vote. It was, to quote a sage, _inn-sewer-rants_. Not sure what it says about Normal to me; it’s not the first time (iirc) that she’s argued that way about me, but I can’t remember without research I don’t have time for, so I can’t recollect whether she was right or not then. Probably a mixture. [post=14948113]Post 409[/post] still ignores the Incentive to Vote issue. [post=14948257]415[/post]. Normal says. > [@](#): > > Hold up a second here, I remember this from the first reading as being something I wanted to point out. So voting Gadarene woudl be defensible if Astral had expressed suspicion of Gadarene over Visorslash. Astral actually HAD questioned Gadarene a couple of times, versus Visorslash not at all. Does that not demonstrate the requisite level of suspicion, right there? It should not take much, and you yourself state that you have no issue with such a vote being placed as such. No, it does not. I said he was “pushing” Gad – what I perhaps should have said is that he was questioning Gad. He didn’t give reasons why Gad’s response or lack thereof fuelled his suspicions. Enough about me vs Normal, I hope. I’ve already been proved wrong (ho hum) about the three votes on Mosier being a one-shot. On the source, I also can’t see that ATPG would place votes for players of his own volition – it means he’s interfering with play and can open him to charges of favouritism, and that could ruin the game whether it is true or not. Something I learned from my former employers back in the day is that it is important not only to avoid impropriety, but also the _appearance_ of impropriety. That applies here; the game host should do nothing to give the appearance that he’s favouring one side over the other. I note Pizza’s comments later on when he says he’ll introduce some judgement over whether actions are worth alignment shifts – I’m OK with that because alignment is a matter of judgement anyway, Pizzqa’s not hiding the fact that he’s doing this, and someone has to have the final say. Also, D&D stuff doesn’t matter if your sole goal is to play Mafia. Meatspace (lunch, Chinese GP qualifiers and a Pathfinder game tonight) calls. I’ve read to post 450, so still lots to do. I’ll not likely post again until Sunday afternoon. Also, if anyone does want to ask me stuff privately, I’m merestil on AIM, or merestil dot haye at gmail dot com on google chat. PM if you can’t see me on AIM, as I’ll get an alert. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1128 "2012-04-14T12:18:18Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I had a slight scum lean on **Astral** D1, which hasn’t changed. The case against **MHaye** looks plausible; I’ll study it over the coming hours and may join that bandwagon. How’s that study coming along? Or do you think **present** is scummier? > [@septimus](#): > > I live in Thailand which is entering its annual Songkran Water Festival. There’s a chance I may end up inebriated, participating in infamous mud orgies, and incommunicado … 😃 Bad luck, eh? ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1129 "2012-04-14T12:58:30Z")
Weedy, I’m a C# programmer. Post the link to the code or PM me with it. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1130 "2012-04-14T13:21:11Z")
You know, the **Weedy** , **Gadarene** , and **Tanaer** trinity is really starting to ping me. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1131 "2012-04-14T13:26:36Z")
Scathach#31 Speculation on the meaning of traitor #328 Apology for absence #329 Doesn’t see scumminess in Astral’s post, doesn’t think a scummy Astral would pull the last minute vote change, finds reaction more suspicious: no-one voted, Lightfoot was on the fence, votes Lightfoot for fake scum hunting #390 Questions Normal about the color and who is in control of the demon #394 Wonders about the extra votes and whether the traitor controls some of them #397 Wonders about coordinating attacks, possibly even attacking the demon #399 Agrees it’s probably unworkable but would be powerful #402 Wonders about the demon’s HP #741 To PetW, who suggests coordinating attacks, quotes her own suggestion from #397 #941 Questions Gadarene about his source, is reminded of Pizza’s telling others how to hunt scum without doing so himself #945 Reinterates comments about Lightfoot, accuses her of lurking in plain sight #949 Finds Gadarene’s third party accusation suspicious as it’s illogical The main thing that stands out is the low volume. The holiday weekend covers most of Day 1 but #741 just stands out as someone lurking, nothing for 300 posts before or 200 posts after, just pops in to mention “Hey, that was my idea” and disappears again. No mention whatsoever of the other contenders for the lynch, just a defense of Astral. The vote on Lightfoot is dubious, Scathach was equally on the fence about Astral’s vote switch, and she didn’t reply to Lightfoot’s response in [#336](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14945749&postcount=336) and I don’t see what happened to the suspicion of the other people who reacted to Astral’s vote switch but didn’t vote? And accusing Lightfoot of lurking, albeit in plain sight, is ironic. I’m a teensy bit suspicious of the suggestions to concentrate attacks on Lord Phere or a single player - assuming we can’t actually kill it, scum would like Town to focus their attacks away from them. This pings. I’d like to hear a lot more from Scathach. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1132 "2012-04-14T13:57:56Z")
> [@BobArrgh](#): > > You know, the **Weedy** , **Gadarene** , and **Tanaer** trinity is really starting to ping me. Gadarene and Tanaer are the two players I know best in the game (I basically signed up to play with Tanaer, and I really wish she had more time), so they are the easiest for me to read. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1133 "2012-04-14T14:10:27Z")
Brief history of ToeJam[spoiler]#9, 12, Starts the whole cheesy pun stuff, call to arms #21 Mafiapedia #28 In character, fluff to Bob #42 To Story, deduces he’s not Evil and scum or Good and Townie #43 Taunts Lord Phere #53 To Suburban, comments about Story being a strong player #120 Posts vote count, votes Gadarene for his “me too” vote, opportunistic and easy. Advises Visorslash to cut it out, some edit fail here: > [@ToeJam](#): > > Honestly, my personal feelings: I like using Killing helpful Town members- inactive members, players who are just posting noise, and players who act in a chaotic and unhelpful fashion, or have their own interests over the Town’s. Huh? Who do you like killing? #121 Wonders about Lord Phere and whether there’d be any value attacking him #123 Taunts Lord Phere #128 To Lightfoot, comments on Glee’s vote and unvote #129 Questions Gadarene about his vote on Astral and OMGUS votes in general #145 Asks SilverJan if Visorslash is scummy or jerkish for his OMGUS vote #147 Apologises for confusing Mosier with Normal #151 Apologises to Lightfoot for mocking her confusion #162 More banter with Lord Phere #163 Fluff? with choie #166 More fluff with choie about talking in character #174 To Lightfoot, when someone votes you, don’t assume scum, look for motivations #251 Posts vote count #271 Fluff re: tags #290 Does not like Astral’s vote switch, should vote for scummiest, FOS #348 Wonders if Astral will make another last minute vote switch, is happy with vote on Gadarene #353 Smack smiley in response to lilflower’s tie-breaking metagame vote on Gadarene [long pause here] #563 Questions Weedy about futility in attacking the demon, suspects there’s value in it [long pause here] #820 Agrees with choie that the secret vote-buying is suspicious, FOS Fubbles. Advises Visorslash (again) to start helping town, comments on the healing and clerics being good or evil #898 To Bob, comments on the game setup: aspects, elements, game alignments, votes Septimus for making lists of Townies, snuggling #901 Votes on items, one for self, 2 for Bob #932 Re-votes Septimus, corrects color, asks about townie list #943 Comments on how Septimus’ trust list helps scum. I think he’s missing a qualifier somewhere in here: > [@ToeJam](#): > > If I was scum and I had a player like **Septimus** , I would be triply pleased- that’s a person I want to keep around until endgame especially if he keeps thinking of one of my scum buddies as Town. Or other deeds now that i know who he trusts to be more likely to bandwagon with, i can use that info to manipulate his vote. #966 More taunting of the Lord #977 Switches to Fubbles for ignoring Gadarene’s accusation and focusing on the source, suspects accusation struck close to home and that Fubbles may be working with scum to reach wincon #980 More taunting #988 More taunting #993 Is pleased to help Pizza’s enjoy being the demon #999 To Bob, who asks about capitalization, likes to make up names #1004 To Normal, agrees that random attacks by townies may make scum’s job easier #1072 OOG comment to Maha #1077 Wonders if there’s recruitment in this game[/spoiler]It’s the taunting, almost non-stop taunting, and the vote counts that caught my eye. I admire the attempt to post in character and the banter with Lord Phere veers on humorous, but there’s a fixation there that makes me wonder if he’s working towards a specific goal. I thought there were more vote counts (helpful townie) but I was mistaken. I agree with the vote on Septimus, I hate those lists too, unless they’re accompanied by a distrust list. ToeJam, did you admit you are Gadarene’s informer? If so, why didn’t you share the info beforehand? Do you think fubbles is scum or third party? ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1134 "2012-04-14T14:21:49Z")
Unless Fubbles has a merchant role of some kind, he isn’t third party. The neutral alignment is either town wins and you survive, or you have the most money as a neutral. And even a Merchant role wouldn’t be anti town as third party, so I don’t know why you are pursuing it. Considering Gad said it was third party when I know for a fact it isn’t, and I’m surprised no one else came out and said it, but it isn’t, and Gad pushing that as third party seems like he is trying to push a lynch onto Fubbles, if you can’t see that. I’m going off memory here so I may be off, but its not like any of you read my posts. Gad is trying everything to get the lynch onto someone else, almost frantically, and I really don’t like it. A townie would more then likely stuck to their guns, but you can’t trust townies to be consistent either. I just don’t like his play at the moment, and I really think it is worth a lynch. A note on alignments: They can possibly change. No-one likes forced recruitment, well not really, so if there is only voluntary conversion, then kudos Pizzaguy. On that matter, we may have people turning to the dark side, and there may be certain roles available to certain classes which may allow people to switch alignments, I don’t know. Just my 2 cents at the moment. And guys, I know you don’t like me, but there is no need for you to insult me because of that. I don’t recall insulting you choie, but I probably did. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1135 "2012-04-14T14:24:28Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Congratulations!!! You will be missed here though. I hope you don’t have too many sleepless nights. > > My guests left earlier than expected and I haven’t had a vat of wine yet so I am back. > > I am so tempted to vote for **Visorslash** again, he really wants\*\* Gaderene\*\* dead and I don’t find\*\* Gad\*\* scummy at the moment. So because you don’t think someone is scum that I do makes me scum? Yeah, alright then. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1136 "2012-04-14T14:39:57Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > 1. Why is the limited amount of additional info I’ve gotten from the moderator (regarding my leveling up) interesting to you? > > 2. What do those two things have to do with each other? I fail to see what’s inherently scummy about getting info from the moderator. It loses something without the full quote. The 0 amount I’ve recieved after my actions ( as I said in the full quote) made your info interesting And I did not say scummy I said .. interesting.. @ \*\* Choie \*\* I spoilered rather than snipped the part of the post that I was not addressing ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1137 "2012-04-14T14:41:32Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > Unless Fubbles has a merchant role of some kind, he isn’t third party. > > The neutral alignment is either town wins and you survive, or you have the most money as a neutral. > > And even a Merchant role wouldn’t be anti town as third party, so I don’t know why you are pursuing it. > > Considering Gad said it was third party when I know for a fact it isn’t, and I’m surprised no one else came out and said it, but it isn’t, and Gad pushing that as third party seems like he is trying to push a lynch onto Fubbles, if you can’t see that. I think we’re in agreement. My question was to ToeJam about his vote on Fubbles. He seems to think he’s a non-win-stealing third party rather than scum and I question the wish to lynch non-scum, especially if that claimed wincon is true. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1138 "2012-04-14T14:43:44Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > Considering Gad said it was third party when I know for a fact it isn’t … (snipped) How do you know this for a fact? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1139 "2012-04-14T14:53:48Z")
Damn I have to work today. I’ll get me behind back here as soon as I can… I didn’t like \*\* scathach’s\*\* vote and reasoning at me yesterDay and since I do not have time to give you a full meal right now ( although I did do a post on the player earlier- with no response I might add) I will place a vote and respond when the overlord that signs my paychecks allows \*\* Vote Scathach \*\* ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1140 "2012-04-14T16:27:41Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > I chatted with Tanaer today. I don’t expect anyone to take my word for it, but I think she’s probably Town. you can always post your chat logs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=56) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=58)