# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![realitytrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@realitytrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/realitytrip)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1181 "2012-04-15T02:12:29Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Speaking to people with far better memories than mine: are there any actions from the past Dawns and Dusks (or is it just one Dusk so far?) that have been left unexplained? Or are they _all_ unexplained except the obvious protections? As far as I can tell, all anonymous actions are still anonymous. Who healed Guiri? Who protected PetW? Who attacked? All still unknown. What does WIFOM stand for? In efforts to vote to give items to those that I think are townies: Vote Emerald Ring To choie Vote Blue Pendant to Normal Phase Vote Sapphire Ring to GuiriEnEspana I think that the traitor will change his hidden triple vote again, probably try to time it so we can’t react. I don’t think that Astral Rejection will keep those votes. Why on earth would the traitor help lynch someone who is gathering votes and suspicion all on his own? I am tempted to vote for Astral, who likes smudging me, but I still have my doubts as to whether scum would get the timing of end of day so wrong on day one, so I am still hedging on him being town. My day one vote was for Mahaloth, but it looks like he has pretty good out of game reasons for his non-participation, and he may be subbed out, so I need to do some more analysis tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1182 "2012-04-15T02:36:19Z")
It’s a bit late for analysis. There’s a half-dozen cases out there to choose from already. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1183 "2012-04-15T03:02:58Z")
WIFOM = Wine in Front of Me, from the scene in [Princess Bride](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9f3GSA9yfc). ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1184 "2012-04-15T03:06:20Z")
FWIW, here’s a list of who’s voting for whom, and who hasn’t voted this round. Hopefully I haven’t messed it up like I’ve done every other damn list: ------- THE LIVING VOTERS ------ Astral Rejection - currently voting for MHaye choie - currently voting for fubbleskag fubbleskag - currently voting for Gadarene Gadarene- currently voting for Visorslash gnarlycharlie - currently voting for Weedy Lightfoot - currently voting for Scathach NAF1138- currently abstaining Normal Phase - currently voting for Astral Rejection Red Skeezix - currently voting for Weedy septimus - currently voting for Astral Rejection Suburban Plankton - currently voting for Gadarene ToeJam - currently voting for fubbleskag Visorslash - currently voting for Gadarene Weedy - currently voting for MHaye ------- THE LIVING NONVOTERS ------ Believerer BobArrgh GuiriEnEspana Lilflower MHaye PetW RealityTrip Scathach Silver Jan storyteller0910 Tanaer ------- THE BADDIE ------ Lord Phere - currently voting for Astral Rejection ------- THE DEAD ------ Mosier - lynched Day 1 Inner Stickler - killed Night 1 glee - killed Night 1 ------- ACTUALLY TOO BUSY TO PLAY THIS ------ [del]Mahaloth[/del] - quit [del]Drain Bead[/del] - quit * * * In summary I’ll state the obvious: there are way too many people in the “Not voting” category. I’d like to hear something from **Drain Bead** ’s sub **Believerer**. And I probably should’ve included **NAF** in there but our GM claimed “abstain” counts as a vote, thus, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1185 "2012-04-15T03:07:37Z")
I’d be real surprised if the Day ends tomorrow with the 3 mystery votes on **Astral**. My guess is that there will be a last-minute vote change with those 3 mystery votes piling on to a different target. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1186 "2012-04-15T03:26:13Z")
That’s pretty much a no-brainer. I have to say, after realitytrip’s “must do more analysis” deflection from actually voting just now I’m much more sympathetic to Astral’s semi-case on him from earlier. The thing is I’m not sure it actually says much of anything about Astral, even if it’s correct. (I know, by a few days from now I’ll have everybody scum with everybody. It seems to be one of those games. Sue me.) Ugh it’s too late to think. I may change my vote when I wake up. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1187 "2012-04-15T04:02:47Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Why? Because Suburban is voting me for my “magic bag,” yet my informant has contacted him and corroborated what I said about my hearing about this win condition from him. And Suburban hasn’t acknowledged that at all or bothered to change his vote, despite me being functionally the lead wagon. That’s why Suburban is likely scum, and I’ll probably vote him when I get home. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1188 "2012-04-15T04:03:33Z")
Timing of all this? ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1189 "2012-04-15T04:22:32Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > We talked on the phone, and it was more her tone of voice, and the naturalness of the conversation than what she said. oh. you actually TALKED to each other. > [@Tanaer](#): > > I must believe that (even though I know > from briefing, the one is not the next), > the goodness has us working for the good > unless/until the evil has us hexed do you talk like this on the phone too? :eek: so **weedy** thinks your Town. what do you think of her? > [@realitytrip](#): > > As far as I can tell, all anonymous actions are still anonymous. Who healed Guiri? Who protected PetW? Who attacked? All still unknown. > > What does WIFOM stand for? Wine In Front of Me. it’s from the movie, “The Princess Bride.” you’ll have to research the clip as i don’t think we have permission to post links to stuff outside the game. at any rate, it is a term to describe a situation which results in circular decision making. For example, in a game where there is an outed cop and a doc. the doc would be expected to protect the cop. scum would therefore kill someone else. the doc may think to protect someone else. scum then might target the cop. so it goes into infinite cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1190 "2012-04-15T04:23:31Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ Septimus – all I can say is ToeJam denied it was him. > > I’m not sure whether Visor is implying he has the same information as Gadarene says that he has, with what he said in his last post; or whether he’s just working off what Gadarene said. I"m not having the best of days. No, I’m saying that Gadarene lied to get Fubbles lynched as the wealth win condition is **not** third party. > [@Weedy](#): > > Guiri, he is saying that if Astral or Gadarene were Town, they would have been lynched, so the fact that they didn’t means they are more likely Scum. It wouldn’t have made sense for the demon to lynch Mosier when he could have lynched Astral or Gadarene. > > I disagree, but I don’t think what he is saying is inconsistent. It’s WIFOM. Simple as that. Do we take Gad and Asstral (see what I did there? :p) as scum because they were saved by the wagon? Or we could consider that they were town and the scum did this to cause confusion and make us lynch them as townies. It’s a nulltell and its better to discount it fully. > [@Weedy](#): > > Yeah, I don’t know about that. > > I have a Town lean on him, because he is charging around making up theories. I have seen new Town players do that because they are confused and desperate to get a handle on the game (i.e. the part you see as ‘confidence’ I see as groping). Scum are never as confused as Town. > I don’t have any strong Scum leans. MHaye’s defense of himself was pretty meh, and I’m happy with that wagon. I think ToeJam is saying a lot without saying anything so he’s my next pick. But I mostly feel like I want to vote a wagon today, so I’m planning to vote with my Town leans. Right now, the triple voter can vote off any one of about 5 people and that’s just no good at all. There are no standard scum plays and there are no general town plays. All can apply generally at least most of the time. Though your last sentence is correct. > [@Tanaer](#): > > our items show our elemental bent > and thus how best to double damage sent :smack: That’s not a very bright way of looking at things. I have no idea what the hell Emerald does but I will vote it to myself nonetheless. Basically it may provide an ability or wealth both of which is good. The above quote is obviously not true. > [@LightFoot](#): > > can you put some meat in that sandwich?= > I mean it’s a tossed sentence > And there is no dressing I said I didn’t have time to post, I had bags to pack and a plane to catch. > [@Tanaer](#): > > I must say, sadly I cannot detect > with any certainty our comrade’s bents, > but given that, I’ll share some thoughts of mine > and not be sitting too square on the fence: > > I find it difficult to understand > this focus so intense on Gadarene - > he seems to be just using his own way > to prompt the scum to rise toward the seen. > > Now, Silver Jan was watching Visorslash > it seemed just too much interest in a clown. > I saw her backing off when he made sense > and now suspect she’s working for the town Besides her fascination with me, which she can use as a play to look townie as nobody likes the abrasive guy, the last post was crazy scummy. It doesn’t ring true to me, it sounds false and lying and scummy, etc. > [@choie](#): > > Yeah, I found the **PetW** thing really bizarre. A big wagon rolled on her, then just as suddenly everyone jumped off. I didn’t understand either decisions. > > Ouch, I hate to seem worthless. Considering how quickly votes can pile on people (_see_ **PetW** ) it’s possible for anyone to suddenly turn into the vote-leader to totally vote-free in a matter of hours. > > As for **fubbles** … well, currently he’s my main scum nominee because I instinctively didn’t like the secretive bargaining (I was the only one to out his negotiations)–and _yes_ I know PMs are part of the game, but I can’t help my instincts!–nor do I think the desire to amass all the gems that only _he_ can value (Is he doing so honestly? Who knows?) is Townish. And as the only apparent third-party role who’s made himself public, he just seems like a safer choice than an actual Townie. I’m less afraid of lynching him than anyone else whom I really don’t have a read on, lest they turn out to be one of my Townmates. Does that make sense? > > As I’ve said before I’m fairly itching to vote against **Visorslash** but as I’ve also said (and as others have repeated), acting like a putz does not equal being scum, so I’m trying really really hard to fight that very unhelpful itch. Also he’s made a noticeable effort in the last day or so to straighten up his act, which is either a show of good faith or a worried Scum. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt so far. > > Then there’s **Guiri** , whose Townness is so automatically assumed that I’m tempted to vote for him out of sheer bloody-mindedness. Yeah, really logical, huh? I know. I know. It’s stupid. > > On a different note, I’m most interested to see what happens re: the **Astral** vs. **Gadarene** situation. Will the demon/devil/whatever keep his votes on **Astral**? And _why_? Is this ploy intended to make **Gadarene** look scummy or a double-bluff to make **Astral** look scummy? (Considering both **Gadarene** and **Astral** were saved by Phere’s votes, obviously we’re intended to be looking closely at them. Or are we? ARRRGH.) > > Whew. So this is what’s on my mind-grapes. Trust me, I’m not proud of being so uncertain. > > Speaking to people with far better memories than mine: are there any actions from the past Dawns and Dusks (or is it just one Dusk so far?) that have been left unexplained? Or are they _all_ unexplained except the obvious protections? This is another one of those posts which seem townie. Specifically because you have said jack shit at all but trying to look townie. I’ve seeing a lot of this here and this is useless information dressed up as town. I don’t like it, and if you continue any further along what you are doing currently, I will try to lynch you. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1191 "2012-04-15T04:25:23Z")
> [@BobArrgh](#): > > I’d be real surprised if the Day ends tomorrow with the 3 mystery votes on **Astral**. My guess is that there will be a last-minute vote change with those 3 mystery votes piling on to a different target. it makes me think there might be an unusually small number of scum, even one. this is some overpowered voting. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1192 "2012-04-15T04:27:47Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > it makes me think there might be an unusually small number of scum, even one. this is some overpowered voting. There would probably be more then one. Maybe a few groups of scum, possibly a serial killer and a mafia, who knows. We certainly can’t tell at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1193 "2012-04-15T04:38:59Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > This is another one of those posts which seem townie. Specifically because you have said jack shit at all but trying to look townie. I’ve seeing a lot of this here and this is useless information dressed up as town. I don’t like it, and if you continue any further along what you are doing currently, I will try to lynch you. Yo **Visorslassh** (see what I did there?!!! I wanna be hardcore like you!!), I was responding to **Normal** ’s request wondering I’m voting for **fubbles**. The post explained my reasoning for thinking **fubbles** seems off to me, tried to exonerate your utterly-worthless-to-town butt (exactly why, I do not know), asked questions, and tried to get answers from anyone who is actually trying to win the game for Town. It’s called _interacting_ instead of dropping obnoxious one-liners. All of which is a fuckton more than you’ve done since the game began. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1194 "2012-04-15T04:43:16Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Yo **Visorslassh** (see what I did there?!!! I wanna be hardcore like you!!), I was responding to **Normal** ’s request wondering I’m voting for **fubbles**. The post explained my reasoning for thinking **fubbles** seems off to me, tried to exonerate your utterly-worthless-to-town butt (exactly why, I do not know), asked questions, and tried to get answers from anyone who is actually trying to win the game for Town. > > It’s called _interacting_ instead of dropping obnoxious one-liners. All of which is a fuckton more than you’ve done since the game began. Calm down. > [@](#): > > Whew. So this is what’s on my mind-grapes. Trust me, I’m not proud of being so uncertain. This line in particular is worth looking at. You’re saying things, but you’re not acting on them, you’re ‘uncertain’ you don’t want to lead a lynch or vote a townie off or look bad in any way. You’re not committing to a lynch and your wording suggests scum to me. You aren’t making any decisions here, it’s fluff. **Unvote; Vote: Choie** ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1195 "2012-04-15T04:57:52Z")
\*\* unvote \*\* \*\* vote Suburban Plankton \*\* ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1196 "2012-04-15T04:59:35Z")
> [@Visorslash](#): > > This line in particular is worth looking at. You’re saying things, but you’re not acting on them. The hell? What do you mean I’m not committed to a lynch? I’m committed to lynching **fubbleskag** , whom I find the scummiest of the bunch. He has two votes,which means he’s tied with just about everyone (excluding **Astral** , and who knows where those extra votes are going to stick or not, and **Gadarene** ). And I really don’t think **Gadarene** is scum, so nope, I’m not gonna vote for him. He seems like a frustrated Townie (and I sure know how he feels!) who’s not getting people to listen to him. With there being so many nonvoters, the votes are quite spread out amongst the scheme of things. This means anything can happen, where a shift of two or three votes could make a huge difference. So I just don’t think my vote against **fubbles** is worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1197 "2012-04-15T05:13:24Z")
**Unvote: Astral Rejection Unvote: Astral Rejection Unvote: Astral Rejection** ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1198 "2012-04-15T05:19:49Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Timing of all this? He’s been back since. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1199 "2012-04-15T05:22:04Z")
Oh great. What a coincidence. Gee, I wonder if someone is trying to make me look bad? Who could that be? If the next three votes land on **Visorslash** ’s head I’m going to call foul. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1200 "2012-04-15T06:44:49Z")
> [@choie](#): > > The hell? What do you mean I’m not committed to a lynch? I’m committed to lynching **fubbleskag** , whom I find the scummiest of the bunch. He has two votes,which means he’s tied with just about everyone (excluding **Astral** , and who knows where those extra votes are going to stick or not, and **Gadarene** ). And I really don’t think **Gadarene** is scum, so nope, I’m not gonna vote for him. He seems like a frustrated Townie (and I sure know how he feels!) who’s not getting people to listen to him. > > With there being so many nonvoters, the votes are quite spread out amongst the scheme of things. This means anything can happen, where a shift of two or three votes could make a huge difference. So I just don’t think my vote against **fubbles** is worthless. Your vote against Fubbles is ill reasonsed. If you think he is against the town by being third party, that is sketchy at best, and false at worst, and not a good reason to vote for him, though I suppose you could consider it a safe vote, considering he won’t be lynched. On the other hand if you are voting him for PMing people about business deals then that really is an anti town vote for which I am perfectly fine with voting you. Now, in case the above does come true, I think I will pre-emptively: **Unvote; Vote: Gadarene** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=61)