# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1341 "2012-04-16T12:54:29Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Why do you care so much? Is my vote somehow more important than all the others? > > The reason I was ‘still voting for you’ at that point is because I hadn’t found anyone I thought was more suspicious back on Friday afternoon when I was actually following the game, and I hadn’t had more than 5 minutes at t time to read the thread since… > > I’ve now spent the last couple hours getting caught up. Give me a bit of time to digest what I speed-read this evening, and I might be able to make something of it. > > In the meantime, I’ll start here… > Someone did PM me claiming to he your informant. They did mention the extra win condition, and basically corroborated what you have posted. > > That being said, the informant didn’t claim to have ‘inside information’, but rather to have heard this info from an unnamed third (fourth?) party, with no way to prove the information was correct. > > The reason I voted for you in the first place is that I felt you were claiming that you had ‘secret knowledge’ of \*\*fubbleskag’s \*\*Game Alignment and Win Condition, when in fact you had no such knowledge. It seemed to me that you were making an effort to drum up suspicion of fubbleskag in order to get him lynched. All descriptions of this supposed ‘Extra Party Win Condition’ suggest that the role, if it exists at all, is probably ‘Third Party’ (non-exclusive, sharing a win with Town or Scum) rather than ‘PFK’ (exclusive, stealing a win from all other players); for this reason, I can’t understand why you would have been so bent on getting fubbleskag to admit to his role. > > I’m still suspicious of you at this point, so I’m not removing my vote at this time. > > As for our vote leader, I think the way that bandwagon picked up speed a while back is scary. I believe that \*\*Astral \*\*is exactly what he has told us he is: an Archer with 400 HP. Whether that means he’s Town is not is another thing entirely, of course…and I’m not sure if he’s ever actually come out and claimed he was Town. > > And with that. I’m off to bed. I \*will \*have more to say in the morning. That’s ridiculous. You voted me for my “magic bag;” someone has corroborated my “magic bag” and shown that if it’s a magic bag, it’s not MY magic bag; and yet you’re still voting for me for no reason other than that you’re “still suspicious of [me] at this point.” Awful play on your part if you’re a townie. I’m really, really sick of the bullshit, nonexistent cases on me this game. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1342 "2012-04-16T12:58:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I get very strong Scum vibes from **BobArrgh** and certainly won’t move the vote to someone I don’t have a Scum read on. I spent much time searching for the relevant posts to try to understand Normal’s case against MHaye, but it was inconclusive. If someone has a Cliff Notes version of _Why MHaye is Scum_, I’ll read it and consider. > > What we really need is software that learns to recognize, player vs player, the difference between Scum and Town styles. The tell you find against MHaye – can’t discern Scum despite much effort – might be one of my own Scum tells. When I was Scum recently I had great trouble making cases: All the Townies seemed so Townie! :smack: Kommodus, anyone? ATPG and Normal Phase should get the reference. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1343 "2012-04-16T13:24:07Z")
You know, **Septimus** , I don’t automatically consider you scummy just because you unvoted **Astral** and shifted it to me. However, I’m waiting to hear the “really good case” you have against me, because what you have right now, is diddly squat. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1344 "2012-04-16T14:20:11Z")
If no one else cares at all about how scummy Suburban is being, would anyone like to wagon NAF with me? His only contribution today has been to cast a vote for No Lynch, which I find extremely scummy since it allows him to gain a level without being held accountable for any kind of substantive read. **unvote Suburban Plankton** **vote NAF1138** If you think I’m town and you think Astral could be, then join me here. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1345 "2012-04-16T15:11:02Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Ok, the weak vote from Tanaer kind of pinged me. A vote that you don’t believe in won’t help anyone either, the last sentence in particular is very distancing. > > Very focused on colour, with little focus on actual players. Has yet to express actual suspicion of anyone except Weedy, but even that was in a very half-hearted way. > > color=blue]\*\* vote Tanaer \*\*[/color] > > I don’t really love the Astral case - I thought his “swansong” post was pretty townie. I’m aware that with the triple voting shenanigans we need a majority on a player, but the idea of voting someone I don’t think is really scummy is very grating. I’m not surprised it pinged you. I wasn’t very happy with it myself. It was 1am or later, as it seems to be now, I was tired, I was sick, glancing back over posts wasn’t jumping anyone at me. I thought, at least there’s a chance if Astral gets lynched we’ll get some kind of info. So I went with the crowd against my better judgement, and it showed. Things I can think of that have pinged me so far: Weedy & Silver Jan arriving on the heels of one another and voting the same person. Felt like they were straight off some initial scum discussion or something. Something feels wrong still about Weedy. But I don’t know if I’m too close to read her. Choie has over-harped on a few too many things, it feels like a cover-up job. Especially after she pinged me D1 with the question about how many scum & it’s follow-up comment. Something about normal & suburban, but I can’t think what at the moment. \*\* unvote Astral Rejection vote Choie\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1346 "2012-04-16T15:15:37Z")
Guarantee that there are more than a handful of scum in the non-participants so far. Believerer, story, NAF…looking at all of you hard. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1347 "2012-04-16T15:16:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I get very strong Scum vibes from **BobArrgh** and certainly won’t move the vote to someone I don’t have a Scum read on. I spent much time searching for the relevant posts to try to understand Normal’s case against MHaye, but it was inconclusive. If someone has a Cliff Notes version of _Why MHaye is Scum_, I’ll read it and consider. > > What we really need is software that learns to recognize, player vs player, the difference between Scum and Town styles. The tell you find against MHaye – can’t discern Scum despite much effort – might be one of my own Scum tells. When I was Scum recently I had great trouble making cases: All the Townies seemed so Townie! :smack: You remind me, Septimus. I’ve got a slightly scummy feel about Bob too. Can’t remember why, but I shouldn’t leave things being directed to him: \*\* unvote blue pendant unvote sapphire thingy \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1348 "2012-04-16T15:24:22Z")
You guys are starting to stretch yourselves thin. We need a 3-vote cushion on our top suspect. As sad as this makes me, it should still be me unless you guys can pick ONE new target to focus on. Spreading our votes around will get whoever the 3-voter wants lynched, not who town wants. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1349 "2012-04-16T15:31:30Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > You guys are starting to stretch yourselves thin. We need a 3-vote cushion on our top suspect. As sad as this makes me, it should still be me unless you guys can pick ONE new target to focus on. Spreading our votes around will get whoever the 3-voter wants lynched, not who town wants. You should not be happy at the prospect of dying. If the top wagons suck, let’s make a new wagon! ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1350 "2012-04-16T15:38:04Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > You should not be happy at the prospect of dying. If the top wagons suck, let’s make a new wagon! Yes, we should do that. That isn’t happening, though. We’re scattering our votes. I’m not happy about the prospect of dying, but my death removes a distraction and provides information. If we leave it up to whomever has the three-vote power, we don’t know who will die. So, again: unless we can focus on one person and give them a 3-vote margin, we should just stick to lynching me. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1351 "2012-04-16T15:41:28Z")
I’m not completely convinced that the triple vote is scum, actually. Mostly perhaps because there didn’t seem to be a particular reason Mosier may have been picked by scum, but there were certainly people suspecting him of it. So I’m not ruling out neutral, or even town, so far. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1352 "2012-04-16T15:54:57Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > Mostly perhaps because there didn’t seem to be a particular reason Mosier may have been picked by scum, but there were certainly people suspecting him of it. So I’m not ruling out neutral, or even town, so far. This has come up several times now. I can easily think of a reason. > [@](#): > > Scum 1: Hey guys! Neither Astral Rejection nor Gadarene are one of us. Wanna implicate BOTH of them by “saving” them? > > Scum 2: Yeah, that sounds awesome. +3 votes for Mosier, please! > > Askthepizzaguy: **Treacherous maggots! I will sear your flesh from your bones, but in the mean time, sure.** > > Entire scum team: high-five! ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1353 "2012-04-16T15:54:58Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Yes, we should do that. > > That isn’t happening, though. We’re scattering our votes. I’m not happy about the prospect of dying, but my death removes a distraction and provides information. If we leave it up to whomever has the three-vote power, we don’t know who will die. > > So, again: unless we can focus on one person and give them a 3-vote margin, we should just stick to lynching me. If you’re Town, you should want anyone other than you to be lynched. Just throwing up your hands and saying, “well, killing me will remove a distraction” isn’t helpful at all, because if you flip Town then everyone’s going to want to lynch ME after that to “provide information,” and the Town will start out with three mislynches in a row. Which is not good. So let’s try to get a wagon going! Join me on NAF1138 if you agree that he’s been scummy so far. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1354 "2012-04-16T15:56:07Z")
I feel like I just can’t quite get caught up with this game… But it seems to me that \*\*Tanaer \*\*and \*\*septimus \*\*are fishing around just looking for someone to put a vote on that won’t draw too much suspicion. > [@Gadarene](#): > > That’s ridiculous. You voted me for my “magic bag;” someone has corroborated my “magic bag” and shown that if it’s a magic bag, it’s not MY magic bag; and yet you’re still voting for me for no reason other than that you’re “still suspicious of [me] at this point.” > > Awful play on your part if you’re a townie. I’m really, really sick of the bullshit, nonexistent cases on me this game. I ask you again…why do you care? If you’re Town, then it’s a bad vote. Like the vast majority of votes so far in this game (and every other). You’re not in any danger of being lynched, so what’s the big deal? You know, every time I think “Gad probably \*is \*Town, because his reaction is just too over the top for Scum”, then you go and do something like this: > [@Gadarene](#): > > If no one else cares at all about how scummy Suburban is being, would anyone like to wagon NAF with me? His only contribution today has been to cast a vote for No Lynch, which I find extremely scummy since it allows him to gain a level without being held accountable for any kind of substantive read. > > **unvote Suburban Plankton** > **vote NAF1138** > > If you think I’m town and you think Astral could be, then join me here. “OK, I can’t seem to get a bunch of people to join me in this one-off vote, so how 'bout if I make a different one-off vote, and see if anybody will join me there?” The votes currently stand at: Astral - 5 Gadarene - 3 MHaye - 2 Weedy - 2 What are your thoughts on any of these players (besides yourself, of course)? You seemed to be ‘uncomfortable’ with **Astral’s** play earlier in the Day, and you commented on not understanding the \*\*Weedy \*\*wagon, but I don’t believe you’re mentioned \*\*MHaye \*\*at all. Meanwhile, you’ve voted Today for **PetW** , **Visorslash** , **Suburban** , and now **NAF1138**. PetW is the only person among those who was ever under any general suspicion, picking up 5 votes at one point, but after others moved their votes elsewhere, you followed suit. Are you actually concerned with identifying Scum, or are you simply trying to find a bandwagon that you can get other people to join? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1355 "2012-04-16T15:58:00Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > If you’re Town, you should want anyone other than you to be lynched. Just throwing up your hands and saying, “well, killing me will remove a distraction” isn’t helpful at all, because if you flip Town then everyone’s going to want to lynch ME after that to “provide information,” and the Town will start out with three mislynches in a row. Which is not good. > > So let’s try to get a wagon going! Join me on NAF1138 if you agree that he’s been scummy so far. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1356 "2012-04-16T16:00:30Z")
> [@BobArrgh](#): > > You know, **Septimus** , I don’t automatically consider you scummy just because you unvoted **Astral** and shifted it to me. > > However, I’m waiting to hear the “really good case” you have against me, because what you have right now, is diddly squat. Skimming is it? _You’re_ the Scum who insists that, although Astral is Town, it will be scummy to unVote him without a “really good case”. What I wrote was > [@](#): > > I don’t have a “really good case” What I do have is an intuition of your Scumminess, and it’s getting stronger. In addition to you, two other Players now ping me much more strongly than Astral ever did. I’m trying to help Town avoid a misLynch. Is that so bad? ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1357 "2012-04-16T16:08:22Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This has come up several times now. I can easily think of a reason. 😃 ok there’s that. That’s a reason. I get why we should worry it’s a scum vote, but not why we should assume that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1358 "2012-04-16T16:10:23Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > 😃 ok there’s that. That’s a reason. I get why we should worry it’s a scum vote, but not why we should assume that it is. Who is telling you to assume it as a given? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1359 "2012-04-16T16:11:06Z")
Bob, what is your opinion of Astral and what had it been prior to the big bandwagon? I asked you that yesterday; you may have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1360 "2012-04-16T16:13:46Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > The votes currently stand at: > > Astral - 5 > Gadarene - 3 > MHaye - 2 > Weedy - 2 > > What are your thoughts on any of these players …? Are you asking me? I find **BobArrgh** and **Suburban Plankton** more likely to be Scum than anyone on this list. I do agree that, from your point of view, getting a one-off voter to join a two-off wagon on a Townie would be ideal. MisLynch another toDay, while saving Astral to waste another Day on toMorrow. PS: If the “plan” to to have a flurry of vote-switching during the final hour, I’ll probably be asleep. I hope Players make their moves soon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=69)