# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1361 "2012-04-16T16:14:15Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > What are your thoughts on any of these players (besides yourself, of course)? You seemed to be ‘uncomfortable’ with **Astral’s** play earlier in the Day, and you commented on not understanding the \*\*Weedy \*\*wagon, but I don’t believe you’re mentioned \*\*MHaye \*\*at all. > > Meanwhile, you’ve voted Today for **PetW** , **Visorslash** , **Suburban** , and now **NAF1138**. PetW is the only person among those who was ever under any general suspicion, picking up 5 votes at one point, but after others moved their votes elsewhere, you followed suit. Are you actually concerned with identifying Scum, or are you simply trying to find a bandwagon that you can get other people to join? I’m concerned with identifying scum. Do you not agree with me about NAF? If not, why not? I think Astral is probably town. I think MHaye is probably town. I’m less sure on Weedy but she’s an awesome player and I don’t want to lynch her on day two if I can help it unless I have a really strong scum read on her, which I don’t. Are you saying that the difference between the two existing votes on Weedy/Mhaye and the one vote I’ve placed on NAF1138 is such a gulf that I’m not allowed to propose any other wagons today? I hate the fucking inertia of players on this fucking site. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1362 "2012-04-16T16:16:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are you asking me? I find **BobArrgh** and **Suburban Plankton** more likely to be Scum than anyone on this list. > > I do agree that, from your point of view, getting a one-off voter to join a two-off wagon on a Townie would be ideal. MisLynch another toDay, while saving Astral to waste another Day on toMorrow. > > PS: If the “plan” to to have a flurry of vote-switching during the final hour, I’ll probably be asleep. I hope Players make their moves soon. I will vote Suburban if you will. **Unvote NAF1138** **Vote Suburban Plankton** Come on, people! Suburban is still voting me even though he now has evidence that the reason he was voting me in the first place (my “magic bag”) is completely baseless! ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1363 "2012-04-16T16:16:58Z")
One more (very ooc/oog) thing before I trundle off to bed: This is my second game ever - and the first one was very short. In that game, I set out in crazy paranoia mode, so that everybody seemed suspicious at every turn, and I got paralysed trying to tell the scum from the soapiness. So this time I tried to start from the other end, with the opposite problem - people seem pretty justifiable most of the time. I can only chalk it up to inexperience I guess, and hope that I’ll learn fast enough on the job that I won’t get tossed as unhelpful townie. In the meantime, I find engaging with the setting/rpg elements much easier. If I make more contribution there than in cases, I’m playing to my strengths, trying to help us win. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1364 "2012-04-16T16:19:25Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Who is telling you to assume it as a given? Nobody, I guess. It just seemed to be what everyone was assuming, the way they were posting. I just wanted to remind people that it’s not a given so we can read what happens well? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1365 "2012-04-16T16:23:54Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I hate the fucking inertia of players on this fucking site. I agree with the sentiment if not the tone. Inertia is bad, mkay. Just so you guys know, I’ll check in prior to Day end and cast a defensive vote, if one could save me. Plan your votes accordingly. This means if someone is 2 votes ahead of me, I’ll vote them to ensure their lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1366 "2012-04-16T16:24:00Z")
Since I asked Gadarene for his thoughts on the vote leaders, I should probably share my own: \*\*Weedy \*\*- I don’t see anything terribly suspicious. He does seem to have latched on to \*\*MHaye \*\*for what seems to be fairly thin reasoning, but there is reasoning there. I was a bit bothered by his sudden switch to \*\*Astral \*\*(which didn’t count because he neglected to unvote MHaye); combined with his “probably won’t be back before EoD” statement it looks like he just wanted to be in on the ‘winning’ bandwagon. Of course, he later returned and “revoted” MHaye…I’m not sure exactly what to make of that. \*\*MHaye \*\*- I don’t find anything really suspicious here either. His post count has been relatively low, but not suspiciously low. The one thing that pings me a bit is the fact that he voted, apparently just to make sure he leveled up Today, then unvoted and has not re-voted since. With the known existence of the ‘triple-voter’, waiting until just before EoD to place a vote really doesn’t help Town. \*\*Astral \*\*- I haven’t actually reread all of Astral’s posts, but the impression I get is that he’s Scummy because of his “last minute, but not really” vote on \*\*Gadarene \*\*on Day 1, and the fact that he was “passed over” by the triple-votes that resulted in Mosier’s lynch. I don’t find either of these to be indicative of Scumminess. If someone can give me another reason wny Astral is Scum, I might reconsider. \*\*Gadarene \*\*- I believe I’ve made my feelings quite clear already. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1367 "2012-04-16T16:24:20Z")
Well unlike some of you I do consider Astral to be very scummy – it’s only the behavior surrounding him by others that gives me any pause at all. And my vote isn’t even on him right now. If you want me to consider switching, Gadarene, make the kind of case I like to see – you know what it is. I’m not understanding the push to save Astral. He’s in no way coming off as worth the effort, even if you completely completely fail to see the things that I see. And have you even commented on them? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1368 "2012-04-16T16:25:36Z")
Switching to someone other than Astral, I mean. I do want Astral lynched over anyone who’s close to him now. **unvote vote: Astral** ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1369 "2012-04-16T16:26:41Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I will vote Suburban if you will. > > **Unvote NAF1138** > > **Vote Suburban Plankton** > > Come on, people! Suburban is still voting me even though he now has evidence that the reason he was voting me in the first place (my “magic bag”) is completely baseless! I’m not really sure about Suburban yet, but him not recognising what you did as a poke doesn’t necessarily make him scum, just pig-headed. Tunneling for a stupid reason sucks. It’s something scum might do. It’s also something a human being might do. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1370 "2012-04-16T16:27:25Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > He’s in no way coming off as worth the effort, even if you completely completely fail to see the things that I see. Burn. So I’m not worth saving **even if** people don’t think I’m scum. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1371 "2012-04-16T16:27:48Z")
@ Suburban – am I talking to myself? First somebody wants to know what the case on MHaye is and now you want to know what the one on Astral is? I’ve made extensive comments on two long posts from both of them. Good lord. I’ll find them in half an hour when I get back. No more excuses for people to ust ignore that anything was actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1372 "2012-04-16T16:28:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are you asking me? I find **BobArrgh** and **Suburban Plankton** more likely to be Scum than anyone on this list. > > I do agree that, from your point of view, getting a one-off voter to join a two-off wagon on a Townie would be ideal. MisLynch another toDay, while saving Astral to waste another Day on toMorrow. > > PS: If the “plan” to to have a flurry of vote-switching during the final hour, I’ll probably be asleep. I hope Players make their moves soon. I was actually asking \*\*Gadarene \*\*directly in that post, but I’ll entertain answers from anyone who wants to give them. I believe you’ve made clear why you suspect **BobArrgh** ; what’s your case against me? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1373 "2012-04-16T16:33:47Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I’m concerned with identifying scum. Do you not agree with me about NAF? If not, why not? > > I think Astral is probably town. I think MHaye is probably town. I’m less sure on Weedy but she’s an awesome player and I don’t want to lynch her on day two if I can help it unless I have a really strong scum read on her, which I don’t. Are you saying that the difference between the two existing votes on Weedy/Mhaye and the one vote I’ve placed on NAF1138 is such a gulf that I’m not allowed to propose any other wagons today? > > I hate the fucking inertia of players on this fucking site. I don’t agree with you about **NAF1138**. He appears to be “too busy to play this game” at the moment. That \*may \*make him a ‘bad player’ in the sense that he shouldn’t have signed up in the first place, but it doesn’t make him Scum. You are certainly allowed to propose whatever wagons you want, I just find it bothersome that you seem to have stayed away from all of the ones that actually have a reasonable chance at going somewhere Today. And as for why I’m still voting for you; I believe I’ve made that perfectly clear. You don’t seem to understand it, because you keep misstating my reasoning, but I really don’t feel like explaining it _again_. But I will ask you one more time: why is my vote so important to you? \*\*PetW \*\*and \*\*fubbleskag \*\*are voting for you as well; why aren’t you all up in arms over their votes? ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1374 "2012-04-16T16:34:14Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Since I asked Gadarene for his thoughts on the vote leaders, I should probably share my own: > > \*\*Weedy \*\*- I don’t see anything terribly suspicious. He does seem to have latched on to \*\*MHaye \*\*for what seems to be fairly thin reasoning, but there is reasoning there. I was a bit bothered by his sudden switch to \*\*Astral \*\*(which didn’t count because he neglected to unvote MHaye); combined with his “probably won’t be back before EoD” statement it looks like he just wanted to be in on the ‘winning’ bandwagon. Of course, he later returned and “revoted” MHaye…I’m not sure exactly what to make of that. Weedy, like me, is in Australia. EOD is our very early morning. We vote, we go to bed, and don’t expect another chance. I’m not sure about Weedy, but don’t damn her for her timezone! > [@](#): > > \*\*MHaye \*\*- I don’t find anything really suspicious here either. His post count has been relatively low, but not suspiciously low. The one thing that pings me a bit is the fact that he voted, apparently just to make sure he leveled up Today, then unvoted and has not re-voted since. With the known existence of the ‘triple-voter’, waiting until just before EoD to place a vote really doesn’t help Town. Good points. Early voting lets us get some decent numbers somewhere. However, voting just before EoD makes it harder for the tripler to choose effectively and get their vote in on time. I won’t be doing it, though (see previous response). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1375 "2012-04-16T16:34:50Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Burn. So I’m not worth saving **even if** people don’t think I’m scum. Got it. Sorry if I offended you. But don’t take the high ground now after you’ve been been playing the willing martyr for 24 hours on “such a distraction” grounds. I don’t see anything you’ve done that people could have any reasonable level of confidence of your towniness, no. I’m often sympathetic to “bad bandwagon” reads, but I’ve seen nothing from anyone beyond “he looks townie” or the like. No reasoning whatsoever. Where is it, Astral? If you’re a townie, then SURELY you know that Bob is right on some level – if yours is perceived by enough actual townies as a wrong bandwagon, some of them will be moved to disavow it with unsupported suggestions that it is a bad case, or they just don’t get it, or they voted you but now they’re not so sure, etc etc. Who’s pinging you for that reason? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1376 "2012-04-16T16:35:47Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > \*\*Gadarene \*\*- I believe I’ve made my feelings quite clear already. No, you haven’t. You say you don’t trust me, despite the fact that everything I’ve said to you is true and you have corroborating evidence to support me. That’s pretty fucking persuasive. Let me cliffs this for people with no attention span: (1) I say that fubbleskag is probably Third Party based on information I received from someone about a separate win condition involving amassing wealth. (2) Suburban calls me a liar, says I have a magic bag, and votes me. (3) The person who told me about the separate win condition tells Suburban that he told me about the separate win condition. (4) Suburban acknowledges receiving this communication. (5) Therefore, I wasn’t lying about it and there was no magic bag. (6) Suburban keeps voting me. That is sketchy as hell. Normal, I don’t know if Astral puts this much work into saving himself (_and_ is seemingly blase about his own death) as scum. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1377 "2012-04-16T16:37:51Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ Suburban – am I talking to myself? First somebody wants to know what the case on MHaye is and now you want to know what the one on Astral is? I’ve made extensive comments on two long posts from both of them. Good lord. > > I’ll find them in half an hour when I get back. No more excuses for people to ust ignore that anything was actually said. I’ll accept that wrist-slap. I generally hate it when people can’t seem to bother to pay attention to what’s going on in the game they signed up for…and that’s just what I’m doing now. I fell behind and I’m trying to get caught up, and if there were more time before EoD I probably would have just taken the time to do the research myself. But given the current circumstances, that may or may not work. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1378 "2012-04-16T16:37:51Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > And as for why I’m still voting for you; I believe I’ve made that perfectly clear. You don’t seem to understand it, because you keep misstating my reasoning, but I really don’t feel like explaining it _again_. But I will ask you one more time: why is my vote so important to you? \*\*PetW \*\*and \*\*fubbleskag \*\*are voting for you as well; why aren’t you all up in arms over their votes? I am up in arms about their votes. They haven’t given any fucking reasoning at all. But you HAVE given reasoning, AND YOUR REASONING HAS BEEN SHOWN TO BE COMPLETELY FUCKING BASELESS. Plus, you’re around and they’re not. And, frankly, I hold you in higher esteem as a Mafia player than I do either of them. When you do things that don’t make sense, it pings the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1379 "2012-04-16T16:38:14Z")
> [@Tanaer](#): > > Weedy, like me, is in Australia. EOD is our very early morning. We vote, we go to bed, and don’t expect another chance. I’m not sure about Weedy, but don’t damn her for her timezone! Oh, and she revoted because the first one wasn’t valid (she’d forgotten the unvote policy). ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1380 "2012-04-16T16:39:09Z")
And Suburban, you completely ignore my main point on NAF. Too busy to play is one thing, BUT SHOWING UP TO DROP A VOTE ON “NO LYNCH” SO HE CAN LEVEL UP WITHOUT ANY ACCOUNTABILITY IS FUCKING SCUMMY. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=68) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=70)