# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1461 "2012-04-16T20:52:59Z")
**Vote Weedy** sigh ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1462 "2012-04-16T20:53:53Z")
Does anyone recall the tiebreaker rules for this game? I could have sworn they were the standard “first person to reach the tied number of votes is lynched”, but I can’t seem to find that in the rules now. Also, I wonder how the ‘hidden votes’ are counted. Assuming they are the result of players with a ‘double-voting’ ability, would they take effect for vote-counting purposes at the End of Day, or as of the post in which the person publicly voted? **Pizza, in case you see this in the next 7 minutes, can you answer the question posed in the paragraph above?** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1463 "2012-04-16T20:54:31Z")
Remember: 1. Normal Phase 2. MHaye 3. realitytrip & lilflower 4. LightFoot Those are my scum reads in order from strongest to weakest. My feel on LightFoot is just a gut feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1464 "2012-04-16T20:56:30Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > My apologies. I did conflate “why do you think my vote on you is so bad” (which I did ask) with “why are you voting for me” (which I did not ask). > > Although, I suspect the two are pretty heavily tied together, are they not? > > In fact, what have I done that makes you think I’m Scum _other than_ ‘not move my vote off of you’? Utterly fail to give a credible explanation of why your vote is still on me, for one. I also commented on your overall participation and engagement level earlier; it doesn’t at all seem reminiscent of the games I’ve played with you when you’ve been Town. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1465 "2012-04-16T20:56:48Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > OGGH decides not to count my vote because it’s in a quote box. Our Grand Game Host? By the way: **Pizza, can you please confirm receipt of my PM to you? I sent it twice.** ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1466 "2012-04-16T20:57:17Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > **Unvote Suburban Plankton** > > **[color]Vote Weedy**[/color] > > This is not your village game so far. It’s not a very good village game, I agree, but I’m a villager, so it must be my village game :P. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1467 "2012-04-16T20:57:58Z")
realitytrip and lilflower deserve more scrutiny toMorrow as does Believerer as does storyteller as does NAF1138 ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1468 "2012-04-16T20:59:11Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > First \*\*choie \*\*said it, and now you’ve repeated it: that the triple vote yesterday might have been meant to save **Astral**. How is that? > > The ‘final’ vote count (before the triple-vote and the two hidden votes) had \*\*Gadarene \*\*as the lynch, one vote ahead of Astral. > > The only way the triple vote could have been to save Astral would have been if the triple voter a) knew that there were two hidden votes, and b) thought they were both going to be placed on Astral. That would have put Astral in the lead by a single vote, and he would have required ‘rescuing’. Of course, neither of the hidden votes was placed on Astral, so he was never actually in any last-minute danger at all. > > If I’m missing something, someone \*please \*point it out. How do you know when the order to place those votes was PMd to ATPG, exactly? The player who instructed the votes may have been hedging against a collapse of Gadarene’s vote, while not wanting to pile on Astral. Mafia do some funny things sometimes. They’re capable of overthinking issues and making horrible mistakes. Look up Fluiddruid’s “Mob is Recruiting” game, in which the Mafia player killed instead of recruiting Night 1, because he thought confusing everyone was better. Then gave himself away at Dusk on Day 2 - by _gloating_. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1469 "2012-04-16T20:59:17Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ Gadarene – yes, Astral DOES defend himself very strongly when mafia. He was mafia in his very first game here and impressed the hell out of a lot of people. QFT :Bites nails… ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1470 "2012-04-16T21:00:53Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Our Grand Game Host? > > By the way: **Pizza, can you please confirm receipt of my PM to you? I sent it twice.** Our Glorious Game Host. Close enough. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1471 "2012-04-16T21:02:21Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Utterly fail to give a credible explanation of why your vote is still on me, for one. I also commented on your overall participation and engagement level earlier; it doesn’t at all seem reminiscent of the games I’ve played with you when you’ve been Town. I think we have a fundamental disagreement about the ‘credibility’ of my vote on you; one which I fear will not be settled any time soon. As for my participation, it has been a bit less than ‘normal’ for me. I’m pretty sure ‘light participation’ is not in fact a Scum tell for me; I tend to stick my foot in my mouth just as often no matter which side I’m on. But perhaps I’m not the best judge of that. I guess we’ll find out, wont we? 🙂 And with that, I do believe Night has fallen… ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1472 "2012-04-16T21:03:37Z")
I’m currently Schrodinger’s Mafia player, neither alive nor dead! ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1473 "2012-04-16T21:06:40Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > QFT > > :Bites nails… Hey, Guiri: who are your top Town leans? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1474 "2012-04-16T21:09:04Z")
The suckiest part is that IIRC the five extra votes were placed invisibly, and were only seen by us when **pizzaguy** wrote his Dusk narrative post. So really, we have no real idea _what_ the scores are. Those five unaccounted-for votes could easily push anyone ahead of **Astral**. Sorry, I know this is probably obvious and has already been stated, I’m just thinking as I type out of nervousness. Also because I unfortunately have been distracted for the past two hours by an annoying real life mystery involving a gift basket and a disappearing flower shop. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1475 "2012-04-17T02:49:49Z")
Hey, board is back up! Let’s see if I’m dead. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1476 "2012-04-17T03:03:49Z")
Wow, the Board was down for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1477 "2012-04-17T03:40:17Z")
I had all of the following composed and ready to post when the board took its dive earlier this afternoon… > [@MHaye](#): > > How do you know when the order to place those votes was PMd to ATPG, exactly? > > The player who instructed the votes may have been hedging against a collapse of Gadarene’s vote, while not wanting to pile on Astral. > > Mafia do some funny things sometimes. They’re capable of overthinking issues and making horrible mistakes. Look up Fluiddruid’s “Mob is Recruiting” game, in which the Mafia player killed instead of recruiting Night 1, because he thought confusing everyone was better. Then gave himself away at Dusk on Day 2 - by _gloating_. I don’t know when the order to place those votes was sent, though I assume that it was “just before the end of the Day”. I base this assumption on the fact that Today it seems the votes were posted to the thread “as they happened”. If they had been sent earlier in the Day, then I expect they would have appeared earlier in the Day. Again, this is what I believe now, based upon the way Today’s triple-votes appeared in the game thread. Last Night when they first showed up, I thought they were ‘extra votes’ that were added on at end of Day. Another factor that indicated the votes were sent in at the last minute is this from Pizza: > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > The order to place the\*\* following votes\*\* was done before the 5pm deadline, for the record. He explicitly stated that the votes were done “before the deadline”. If they were simply ‘extra votes’ as a result of a Power, then I don’t think there would have been any need to tell us that, just as he didn’t tell us anything about the ‘extra’ votes on \*\*Mosier \*\*and **Gadarene**. I think it’s clear that whoever placed those three votes did it at the last minute, which implies it was not done as an effort to save Astral, since he was in no danger at that time. On preview, having typed all of the above, I do notice that Astral and Gad were tied up until Post 352, which was only 10 minutes before EoD. Since we don’t know whether or not Pizza was online at or near EoD, it is possible that the triple vote came in at, say, 15 minutes before EoD, in which case it could have been intended to save Astral…but in that case, why Mosier and why not Gadarene? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1478 "2012-04-17T03:55:02Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > On preview, having typed all of the above, I do notice that Astral and Gad were tied up until Post 352, which was only 10 minutes before EoD. Since we don’t know whether or not Pizza was online at or near EoD, it is possible that the triple vote came in at, say, 15 minutes before EoD, in which case it could have been intended to save Astral…but in that case, why Mosier and why not Gadarene? You know, in all my guesses about the possible motives of this triple-voter, one didn’t occur to me until you just wrote this. We’ve been ascribing negative motives for this upset vote. But – as fond as we all are of assuming the worst about our fellow players, **Gadarene** _does_ correctly make the point that most of us are Town. (Um, presumably. Again, I know there’s no accounting for what may happen in this game – forget it, Jake; it’s **PizzaTown**.) But what if for once someone’s motives were relatively pure, and this triple voter genuinely thought **Mosier** scummier than **Astral** or **Gadarene**? They were wrong, obviously, but that doesn’t make them scummy by default. Most of us have voted incorrectly at some point. Is this crazy talk? We’re all paranoid but maybe Occam’s Razor is at work here: maybe, like most of us Townies, the triple-voter just placed his/her votes on the person they thought was scum. It’s kind of an idealistic way to look at it, but why not contemplate the most innocent reason for the vote for a little while? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1479 "2012-04-17T03:58:11Z")
Be honest, guys. How much is killing you to still not know if you were right or wrong about me? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1480 "2012-04-17T04:46:15Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Be honest, guys. How much is killing you to still not know if you were right or wrong about me? Dang, **Astral**. I didn’t even vote for you but you’re sounding scummier in this limbo / purgatorial state than you ever did in the game proper! I seem to recall it took about five hours for **pizzaguy** to tally everything. Considering we were down for about five hours and assuming he was only just able to start when the board returned… I’d say this is gonna be a long night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=75)