# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1481 "2012-04-17T04:48:52Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Dang, **Astral**. I didn’t even vote for you but you’re sounding scummier in this limbo / purgatorial state than you ever did in the game proper! Meh. I’m allowed to have fun when I’m (going to be) dead. That question was meant entirely earnestly, and was a play on the boards being down. You folks read entirely too much into jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1482 "2012-04-17T04:52:17Z")
Jokes, hell. We read too much into words. Ask one of the oldtimers to tell you the story of the debacle Debacle. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1483 "2012-04-17T04:55:07Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > You folks read entirely too much into jokes. Right back atcha! ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1484 "2012-04-17T05:02:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Jokes, hell. We read too much into words. Ask one of the oldtimers to tell you the story of the debacle Debacle. Hey Inner, would you tell me about the debacle Debacle? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1485 "2012-04-17T05:03:36Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Right back atcha! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1486 "2012-04-17T05:13:27Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Hey Inner, would you tell me about the debacle Debacle? Hardy har har. It was before my time and the mafia wiki is down so I can’t refresh my memory. IIRC correctly dotchan used the word debacle to describe the results of a lynch and got mislynched for it. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1487 "2012-04-17T05:14:48Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Hardy har har. It was before my time and the mafia wiki is down so I can’t refresh my memory. IIRC correctly dotchan used the word debacle to describe the results of a lynch and got mislynched for it. I imagine “scum gloating” got bandied about? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1488 "2012-04-17T05:34:12Z")
Something to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1489 "2012-04-17T05:34:13Z")
Well, that was a nasty outage. It took so long to bring the site back up that I took an involuntary nap. My schedule’s a bit thrown off because I need to access the site in order to do my host-related duties of reading instructions and carrying them out, tallying and whatnot. Long story short, sit tight, this isn’t going to be ready until morning sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1490 "2012-04-17T05:35:35Z")
That said, we’re not in a rush because both day and night are being stretched so we can get onto a Monday-Thursday Day schedule and a Friday-Sunday Night schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1491 "2012-04-17T05:36:15Z")
**Did you get my PM?** ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1492 "2012-04-17T05:39:07Z")
Yes, Astral. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1493 "2012-04-17T06:17:49Z")
It’s a good thing I did go to bed last night, I could have been sitting here with match sticks holding my eyelids open instead of being nicely refreshed and wide awake and still no results. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1494 "2012-04-17T06:59:25Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m currently Schrodinger’s Mafia player, neither alive nor dead! There’s a current SDMB thread about “Quantum Immortality” in the many-worlds interpretation of modern physics. You’re living in some worlds, dead in others but … cheer up! … You’re only aware of the worlds wherein you survived. But frankly, I still think my link in the set-up thread to _Tease and Denial_ is more apropos. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1495 "2012-04-17T06:59:49Z")
Also confirming that Bright House is having massive problems locally in my area. Estimate until 6am local time for the problem to be resolved. Haven’t been able to load more than a page or two for the past couple hours. Sorry folks. Technical issues. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1496 "2012-04-17T07:07:22Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Also confirming that Bright House is having massive problems locally in my area. Estimate until 6am local time for the problem to be resolved. > > Haven’t been able to load more than a page or two for the past couple hours. > > Sorry folks. Technical issues. Doesn’t Bright House realise that this is a matter of life or death 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1497 "2012-04-17T07:12:17Z")
I know! I totally can’t access my much-needed elf-on-dwarf porn. _sobs uncontrollably_ ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1498 "2012-04-17T07:23:01Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > :Bites nails… Lucky I stopped… > [@Gadarene](#): > > Hey, Guiri: who are your top Town leans? I’d rather not say. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I know! I totally can’t access my much-needed elf-on-dwarf porn. _sobs uncontrollably_ Can’t you get that on HBO? New season started recently. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1499 "2012-04-17T12:28:55Z")
I have the sudden uncomfortable feeling that I have a target on my butt. Amazing how easy it is to forget about that in the heat of battle. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1500 "2012-04-17T12:31:34Z")
Normal was worried about the PetW wagon and I don’t know why, so I went and had a look at it. > [@PetW](#): > > So far the scum have managed to kill 3 of us, and we haven’t lynched a single person yet. We have a 0% chance of finding scum if we continue this way. I propose the following strategy: > > 1. Vote as normal. > 2. Tally votes by the beginning of the last (lowercase) dayparking before nightfall. > 3. Agree as a group to place all of our votes on the leader, regardless of personal belief, to create a strong enough majority to ensure a real lynch and prevent a repeat of Day 1. > We need to get organized. > > \*\* Vote Gadarene \*\*: I wasn’t on this bandwagon until I saw his “go get 'ema Town” goodbye. Now he claims to notthe be vanilla, coyly brags about this secret information he has from unnamed sources, yet scum didn’t bother targetting him. My #1last scum suspect for now. > > Fubbleskag is my #2, and that’s purely because I think anyone whose primary (and secondary and tertiary, apparently) goals are greed, must not be up to any good. I’m afraid of what he may be rewarded with when he acquires too much wealth. To simply have some merchant-type class who simply wins by collecting X amount of gold seems a little pointless and trite to me. I have a feeling Askthepizzaguy has a twist in there somewhere. > > Visorslash is now my #3. I realize it’s in his character to be boastful and abrasive, but I think the degree to which he’s done so is scummy. Also, as I mentioned earlier, his tone seemed to turn in the sign up threads right around the time PMs came out. This is the post that Normal Phase hated so much. I think there is a ton of terrible logic in this post, as Normal points out later. It doesn’t really ping me as Scummy, because terrible logic is not solely a Scum trait. Sometimes Scum try to weasel their way into or out of a vote, and you get bad logic then, but there is nothing weaselly about this. It’s very direct. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Excuse me while I say “BAH”. > > **unvote, vote PetW** > > I may switch back to MHaye or even elsewhere, but this deserves formal recognition. On my way out, back in a bit. First vote on PetW > [@PetW](#): > > Speaking of which, care to elaborate on your vote, and my proposed strategy? PetW not fazed at all. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > OK, this post. > > The first ping is this bit. It’s wee-wee disease. Simultaneous criticism of how badly “we” are doing, with rah-rah about what “we” should do. I’m not sure how to put this in terms that anyone else would understand. It’s Pizza-original scum-hunting and it resonates with me, but I’ve never been able to explain it well. All I can say is that that top bit pings like hell. > > “Come on town, we gotta get with it!” combination cheerleading and criticizing again. Argh. Anyway, I’d rather see the same goal (large lynch majority) aimed at in a less organized way. That way information can be obtained also by who’s participating and who is not, and when, and how. I flat out DO NOT BELIEVE that Pizza would make it all but impossible for the town to lynch its preferred candidate without taking extreme measures, every single day of the game. (Now watch me be proven wrong. But right now I don’t believe it.) So therefore I’m not all that enthused about awkward arrangements like this. > > Why on earth would scum target him? They had Inner, who seemed roundly to be believed as probable town and who was also already damaged. And/or they had glee, about whom Bob was implying all sorts of interesting stuff. **Hey Bob** , by the way, care to shed any more light on that now? And gadarene was looking like lynch bait and/or vig target all night. > > You’ve already seen my opinion about the “secret information” stuff. > > Anyway, reasonable suspect, but very bad reasoning IMO, and this is a scum tell to me. > > No doubt he does, but third parties and suspected third parties are always happy targets for scum, so this doesn’t improve my opinion much. > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen Visorslash as scum, but the one time I saw him as a semi-malicious third party he was transparent as a pane of glass. Though he might be capable of better, at this point I don’t particularly think he’s scum, and this vote is just such a reach in terms of reasoning. You really think he’s going to get a scum PM and then immediately lay in the “I’m going to kill you all” stuff? Why? For the lulz? I guess, but why on earth you should think that’s actually what he’s doing is beyond me. > > You have three super-easy candidates as your three top choices; your reasoning on them is suspect; your helpful suggestion is IMO probably unnecessary and not really much of a negative for scum even if it isn’t; and you have that weird cheer-leading/criticizing/“come on guys “we” need to do better” tone that always gets to me. > > Hence the vote. Pretty solid vote from Normal. > [@Gadarene](#): > > **Vote PetW** > > Oh my God, he sucks. > [@Gadarene](#): > > 😛 > > (But I do like Normal’s case, and I’ve been expressing my dislike for PetW’s reasoning for a while now.) Kind of a ’ me, too’ + OMGUS vote, but I have a bit of a Town lean on Gad, and I can see him making this vote as Town. > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > assuming the three kills were by scum because the Demon Lord killed them all or PIS slip? let’s put more pressure. > > **Vote: PetW** I already said that I hate this vote. He gives a perfectly logical reason why someone would think all the kills were from Scum, and then goes for a PIS accusation. After I said that charlie spazzed at me in a way I saw him do before as Town, so I’m holding neutral on this now. > [@PetW](#): > > I’m assuming they were scum because 1. Only Town were killed and 2. A townie was killed in a fashion that still keeps the top 2 lynch candidates under suspicion. > If the top 2 lynch candidates are spared and a relatively innocuous townie is killed, that seems pretty indicative of scum. It is possible, of course, that the extra votes were townie, but I doubt it. Guiri says over-confident. Hmm, maybe. I don’t think so though, really. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > This post doesn’t sit well with me at all. What a fantastic way for scum to slip by unnoticed. No, I do not like this idea one little bit. If the vote leader is only leading by one vote and then everyone changes their vote that particular person, what info do we get the next Day. All the excuses would be “well we agreed to do it”. > > **Vote PetW** > > I could never vote for anyone I thought was Town, it just goes against the grain. Silver Jan with a villagery sounding vote. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > That’s a lot of votes on PetW for this early in the day and I don’t want MHaye to think I don’t like him anymore. > > **unvote, vote MHaye** Normal Phase doesn’t like the speed at which the wagon took off? > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I don’t like this post. It just screams scum to me. Lets all do the same thing, lets all vote for the same person, lets all attack the mod. Also, its too easy a switch to direct attack on Gadarene. > > **vote: petw** This looks like it was posted while Red was catching up (it refers to a Night post), and he probably didn’t know about the wagon. Not sure what about it screams Scum exactly, but a lot of people hated that post. > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Probably sounds odd since I was responding to this: “At this point I’m doubtful it would be likely to get something that way. Why would a scum player lie?” > > Alignment is often good enough. I’m less forgiving of poor logic from an experienced player. Scum don’t lie for no reason, as if being randed Scum turns someone into a compulsive liar all of a sudden. There is a discussion through here between Normal Phase and Skeezix about whether or not it’s a good idea to randomly attack people in the hope of working out their element. It seems obvious to me that this is not a good idea (because it will weaken Townies, and knowing people’s elements is hardly crucial info). Scum points to Skeezix for pushing it. > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Bite me. > > Baseless accusations. I’m only scum about 80% of the time. > > Also, the amount of times I’ve been scum in previous games has no bearing on whether or not I’m scum now. By your own admission, you have never played with me as town (no idea if this is true or not), so you lack a reference point. Why go down that road? > > **unvote: Petw** > **vote: Weedy** Red changes his vote, but is still suspicious of PetW. I think he is also not caught up, because he is responding to older posts. I’d be interested to see what he makes of PetW’s later posts. > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > okay, your post feels honest. > > **Unvote PetW**. Gnarly said he wanted to put pressure on PetW to see his reaction. I guess he liked it. That makes sense to me, because I liked it to. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > **Unvote PetW** > > On reading that this is only his second game I think he might just have been trying to be helpful and not really trying to boss Town around. > > I want to have a good look at Astral, I have a FOS on him already but I want to have a more solid argument either for or against him. This is the worst of the unvotes, to me. Like, everyone else did, so now I will too. But he didn’t really address her concerns, so I think Jan could have left her vote there if she was Scum looking to park her vote. That leaves Gadarene, who never really specifies that he changed his mind (I think he still has PetW as a scum lean, actually), but did some vote hopping around to try to start a second wagon. The wagon seems fair to me, both in the way it formed, and the way it dissolved, so I’m still not sure why Normal is unhappy about it. Some other things that stuck out to me when I was reading. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > **Bob** , I believe it’s possible to change your elemental alignment. Please look into the details – assuming you can do it today with no negative side-effects it should protect you from a targeted attack on that basis. > > Even though I think every one of your assumptions is likely to be incorrect, your explanation does ring true to me. I believe that not everyone can change their elemental alignment. > [@NAF1138](#): > > Hey everyone, just posting to say that I am right in the middle of preping my second final project for the semester and will be too busy to play for…probably the rest of the Day. I promise that I will be here for Day 3 and that I will be caught up and ready to play for a little while at least. > > In the absence of a quality vote to put down I will vote to > > \*\* abstain \*\* > > I haven’t read the thread at all since my last posting, and I am not going to put my name to a vote I don’t have a feel for. Gadarene, do you think an abstain vote is more Scummy than no vote at all? I kind of think you think it is, but I don’t understand why. > [@realitytrip](#): > > Hmmm…a lot to think about here. At least for me. I know it’s early in the day, but there has been a lot of focus on the items, which may or may not be valuable to most players (obviously if there is a 3rd party with the winning condition to have the most items, that is a different story to them). For my part, I am more than willing to give my vote(s) away to the people that lean town the most to me. > > But I am concerned about the night actions, most of all. There was a lot going on. Visorslash and PetW were attacked by other players. PetW deflected his attack. So he was somehow protected…PetW, do you have a special item or do you think someone may have protected you? > > Either way, that is at least two players with night attacks. > > And then the two kills. One was in battle, which would seem to me to be like a normal scum night kill. The other was slain by magic. Could it be a vig kill, where the vig gains “control” of the demon lord for a night kill? Or a possible one shot extra kill? Town? PFK? > > Thoughts? It would be nice as a collective town to come up with an idea of some of the powers floating around… This might be nitty, but I think this is bad. As in, could be power role hunting, and even if it isn’t meant that way, it could help Scum find them. Please don’t. > [@Gadarene](#): > > I don’t understand the Weedy wagon. Lol, that you went from here to voting for me. What makes you think this isn’t my villager game? And apparently I misunderstood something choie wrote, and red is indeed the proper color for unvotes. Though if BobArrgh can get that vote-counter working, it would be better to have them in blue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=74) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=76)