# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 87
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1721 "2012-04-22T17:30:46Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Seems my apartment building lost power during a storm last night. Everything is delayed until I get back from work. Yay. or not Yeah ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1722 "2012-04-22T17:35:07Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Without looking back, I am sure\*\* Choie\*\* unvoted and went with her feeling rather than stay on a wagon she didn’t believe in. So yes, I didn’t count her. But you _did_ count Tanaer, who also unvoted. The treatment of the two is inconsistent. Choie is one of the flood of voters who followed Guiri; and you skipped over her for what seems to me no good reason.I suggest you _do_ look back, and come back with something better - or at least, better grounds for your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1723 "2012-04-22T17:59:32Z")
I agree, I should have been on the list, though I appreciate **Silver Jan** ’s taking into account my vote change and the reason for it. Not that you’ll buy this, **MHaye** , but **Guiri** had literally nothing to do with my placing a vote on **Astral**. The vote was entirely the result of the interchange between me and **Normal Phase**. Earlier I said (and felt) that she’d bullied me into it, but fuck that, I’m over 21 and should be responsible for my own decisions. The overall feeling at the time, pushed by **Normal** , was that in order to beat the mysterious 3-voting fiend, we had to overwhelmingly vote for one candidate so that Town would lynch whoever we wanted rather than lettting ourselves be outvoted by the aforementioned M3-VF. I said that I didn’t want to vote for someone I wasn’t getting much of a scum read off of, but again, felt the pressure because supposedly voting **Astral** was the Right Thing for Town. Hell, even he was saying it. My vote for **fubbles** was being derided as useless, Why was I persisting with tilting at **fubbles** ’ windmills instead of doing what most people insisted was the Right Thing for Town? So I gave up and gave in. However, when I saw **Normal** jump off the bandwagon she began, with that “yay, I’ve got what I wanted, now I can hop off and vote for someone else” post, I realized that one of the chief advocates for Doing the Right Thing for Town was kind of a big ol’ hypocrite, and that I’d gone against my feelings for no reason. So I said y’know, fuck this noise, and switched my vote back to where I wanted it in the first place. It is _entirely_ possible, maybe even likely, that **Normal** genuinely thought her advocacy of an **Astral** lynch and subsequent unvoting of him was helping Town, and she just didn’t see how damning her comment (parahprase: "woohoo, other people are voting for **Astral** now, so _I_ get to vote my conscience) was both to her own reputation and what she was claiming was the Right Thing for Town. And in fact it’s so blatantly hypocritical and scummy that though I originally was furious with these actions, I almost can’t imagine Scum being so incredibly blatant. On the other hand, maybe the iocane powder really _is_ in front of me after all. WIFOM city, I know. Anyway, for what it’s worth, that was what I am generously calling “my thought process” at the time. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1724 "2012-04-22T20:08:16Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I agree, I should have been on the list, though I appreciate **Silver Jan** ’s taking into account my vote change and the reason for it. > > Not that you’ll buy this, **MHaye** , but **Guiri** had literally nothing to do with my placing a vote on **Astral**. The vote was entirely the result of the interchange between me and **Normal Phase**. Earlier I said (and felt) that she’d bullied me into it, but fuck that, I’m over 21 and should be responsible for my own decisions. Actually, that sounds fairly reasonable. Your description accords with what I remember. I do actually agree that, sometimes, Town-aligned players need to lay aside their own deep-seated convictions and consider whether their vote needs to be placed on one or another of the bandwagon leaders - whichever one you consider more likely (or less _un_likely in some cases) to be Mafia. The Day 2 situation was potentially the same; Astral had a significant lead, and given that there were two at-the-time unknown secret voters around, plus the possibility that a non-Town player could generate three extra votes, it was possible for a player some way back from the lead to suddenly find themselves lynched, without having a chance to claim or otherwise defend themselves from their accusers. We now know who the double-voters are, so we can take into account the effects of their powers when calculating how close a vote race is, so that isn’t so much of a problem. We could still have a problem if Lord Phere is instructed to vote again; remember the votes are almost certainly placed at the behest of a non-Town power. Normal’s unvote raised my eyebrows as well; her unvote has almost completely wiped out then Townie feeling I was developing about her. I’m not going to blame you for jumping off the Astral wagon after Normal did, even though I think staying on the wagon was probably the right thing. Assuming my headache lets up (and it’s responded to the migraine-killer so I might well be ok) I’ll try and review the other votes tonight (tomorrow being given over to interview prep). See you soon. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1725 "2012-04-22T21:58:17Z")
Wow, Choie, you are really becoming the queen of misdirects in my eyes.. you give this explanation: > [@choie](#): > > However, when I saw **Normal** jump off the bandwagon she began, with that “yay, I’ve got what I wanted, now I can hop off and vote for someone else” post, I realized that one of the chief advocates for Doing the Right Thing for Town was kind of a big ol’ hypocrite, and that I’d gone against my feelings for no reason. So I said y’know, fuck this noise, and switched my vote back to where I wanted it in the first place. > > It is _entirely_ possible, maybe even likely, that **Normal** genuinely thought her advocacy of an **Astral** lynch and subsequent unvoting of him was helping Town, and she just didn’t see how damning her comment (parahprase: "woohoo, other people are voting for **Astral** now, so _I_ get to vote my conscience) was both to her own reputation and what she was claiming was the Right Thing for Town. And in fact it’s so blatantly hypocritical and scummy that though I originally was furious with these actions, I almost can’t imagine Scum being so incredibly blatant. > > On the other hand, maybe the iocane powder really _is_ in front of me after all. WIFOM city, I know. > > Anyway, for what it’s worth, that was what I am generously calling “my thought process” at the time. However this is when Astral jumped off the bandwagon. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > What else is new. > > **unvote > vote: PetW** And this is you, jumping on it - some time LATER, > [@choie](#): > > Soooo **Normal** tells me I’m a crackpot for voting for **fubbles** , someone with two votes on him, because he’s never gonna be lynched. Then she places a vote on **PetW**. Who has no votes at all. And this _isn’t_ a waste of a vote. > > **Normal** exhorts me to vote for someone I don’t think is especially scummy over someone I think _is_. Is that how this game is supposed to work? I admit I don’t have the massive amount ofexpertise that **Normal** does, but I thought we were supposed to vote for people we think are scummy. Not whom _other_ people think are scummy. > > Frankly I think that sucks. But whatevs. Since I think **Gadarene** is town and I’m a bit more neutral on **Astral** , I guess he’s the one for the chop. And I think that sucks too, because I vastly prefer to vote for people on whom I have a much, much stronger feeling. **fubbles** meets that qualification and **Astral** doesn’t… at best he’s only slightly scummish to me, and that’s just because of those triplet votes that saved him the other Day. But okay, **Normal**. You win. > > **unvote fubbleskag** > **vote Astral** > > The above reminds me: again, for vote tallying purposes, PLEASE tell us whom you’re unvoting. And place it in red. Since I’m the only one tallying these days, it helps when people remind us where they’re votes were before they switch. (Actually that’s useful for all of us too.) Then you interacted heaps for hours, being vocal all the while about how your vote should be elsewhere, but maintaining your vote. Until finally changing it after you’d been away for another day: > [@choie](#): > > I’m sorry for not being more vocal today, though I think all my posts last night/this morning should count double. 🙂 Also I’m having a really weird experience trying to order a gift basket for a friend. After ordering the basket, I discover the florists’ number doesn’t work, the town’s chamber of commerce doesn’t answer… very scummy indeed. > > Anyway. I’m still suspicious as hell at **Normal** ’s behavior at having started the bandwagon Today on **Astral** , then jumping off, and berating the rest of us for being on it. I agree completely with **Astral** about this “everything you say will be used against you, no matter which response you give” thing. I ran nto this with her in previous games and it is annoying as hell. BUT she’s been town at least once with that same attitude, so as frustrating as it is, it’s not a scum tell on her. > > However, since the only reason I was voting **Astral** was basically to be a good little Townie and do as mommy told me to do, only to see mommy do the opposite (“do as I say, not as I do!”), it’s time for this kid to go through her rebellious phase. just breaking this here to say - nice setup for the reframe! > [@](#): > > **unvote Astral** > **vote Normal Phase** > > Not because of her “AHA Gotcha!” posting style no matter what **Astral** says, but because her bulldozing of the rest of us yesterday seemed aimed at getting **Astral** lynched and her jumping off the bandwagon seemed aimed at making _her_ look good if/when **Astral** flips town. Since I’ve been scolded for voting for **fubbles** and told there’s no way he’ll ever get lynched, fine. I’m going back to voting my conscience, though. So as **Normal** is second on my list of scumminess, she’s up at bat. > > BTW, I _literally_ have no idea what the votes are right now, and it’s time for someone else to do the math, so whoever that someone is, please have at it! And so people look back at this one and clear you for it. Nice job. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tanaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1726 "2012-04-22T21:59:22Z")
Gah. Remember when I said hunting quotes takes too much time ? Now I have to skip breakfast to get to school. Joy. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1727 "2012-04-22T22:17:37Z")
I think this is the longest Night I’ve ever been a part of. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1728 "2012-04-22T22:26:09Z")
No joke. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1729 "2012-04-22T23:37:11Z")
Wall of Words alert! **Tanaer** , you somehow completely missed the _actual_ quote when **Normal** first unvoted **Astral**. The one that puts all this in context. Funny, that. Here’s how it went down, this time the unexpurgated version. [In #1172 I post the vote talley,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14966866&postcount=1172) which shows **Astral** with five votes: three from AITP and two from **Normal** and **septimus** ; I have my vote on **fubbles**. No one has any votes on **PetW**. In response, **Normal** says she doesn’t want to reduce the votes on **Astral** even though her gut is telling her that **PetW** is scum. She also calls my vote for **fubbles** worthless. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > OK, so Astral’s really only at an official 2 votes vs 3 for Gadarene, 2 for MHaye, 2 for Weedy and surprisingly all the way down to zero again for PetW. I’m not at all sure what to make of that. Maybe I should look at Weedy’s case if I can get focused enough; two PetW voters went there. > > I definitely think PetW could still use some pressure, but the only way I can do it is by reducing the votes on Astral, which is blech. > > Choie, why are you voting for fubbles? He’ll never be lynched today unless Lord Phere does it – with the possible exception of you, nobody seems to think he’s actually scum. Yours and ToeJam’s are worthless votes as things stand. Gadarene’s too probably and maybe even Lightfoot’s. > > The person with the most support on him by number of votes placed, has no votes currently. This is not good. I don’t know what to do right at the moment. [I respond and explain my position on **fubbles** in #1177](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14966971&postcount=1177) [**Silver Jan** votes for **Astral** in #1202](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14967577&postcount=1202) [**Visorslash** says we need a clear lynch, votes for **Astral**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14967600&postcount=1203) **Visorslash** and **Normal** tag-team on pressuring me to move my vote from **fubbles**. Here’s **Normal** ’s response in #1211: > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You’re being way too paranoid. (I’ve HAD a role akin to the one you attribute to fubbles in a previous Pizza game, and I’m still talking to him. He’s not going to win in a single day or even three or four with whatever vague not-town win condition you might think he has.) Just plain “would be willing to sell info to the scum in exchange for non-aggression” would be plenty reason for caution if you’re inclined that way, so why so much wild speculation? > > And you are just wrong with your reasoning about the fubbles non-bandwagon. It is going nowhere. If a suspected third party that basically no one actually thinks is scum were going to get real support for a lynching, it would have happened by now. It’s been almost a full night and a full day that fubbles has been a topic of discussion. It’s not going to happen. > > I’m not remotely as suspicious of you as some others are as I’ve seen this sort of bullheadedness from you before as town, but I still think you’re wrong. And I’d like you to consider the other bandwagons now and and least evaluate them for the record: MHaye, Gadarene, Astral, Weedy, etc. > > Come on, choie, this is just silly. By the numbers alone someone in the non-fubbles lynch “leader” group is likely to be scum. Sit down and put yourself on the record as to who it is. She goes on to think I’m scummy, and again exhorts me to share whom I think is scummy, even though I’ve already said I think **fubbles** is scummy, but that’s not good enough because she doesn’t think **fubbles** is scummy. So I’ve just told her whom I think is scum, but nope, not good enough. Tons of pressure on me to get on the bandwagon, don’t waste my vote on someone who has no chance of being voted out, don’t vote my instincts, join a bandwagon join a bandwagon join a motherfuckin’ bandwagon! So what happens next? Does **Normal** stay staunchly on the bandwagon, because dammit, that’s what a Townie person should do, and oh, if only **choie** were as utterly Townie as **Normal** , because she’ll always do what’s best for Town and stick on the bandwagon… _ **FX: RECORD SCRATCH** _ > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Good, more votes on Astral lets me > > **unvote > vote: PetW** > > To keep him on the board. > > I’ll be around near end of day to move back or to MHaye if needed, I just need to see decision making from those who are or were at “none of the above”. That’s #1211, two posts later than her exhortation for me to hop on a bandwagon. Colors bleached, but she screwed up the code in this post, which is why she posted a second time–the post **Tanaer** chose to quote from, probably because it was context-free, unlike the actually damning post. I leave for a little bit, come back, discover that after all her, **gnarlycharlie** and **Visorslash** ’s haranguing, **Normal** has hypocritically switched her vote to **PetW**. I say basically fuck it, I’ll vote for **Astral** and prove myself a good little townie just like you and **Visorslash** want me to do. > [@choie](#): > > Soooo **Normal** tells me I’m a crackpot for voting for **fubbles** , someone with two votes on him, because he’s never gonna be lynched. Then she places a vote on **PetW**. Who has no votes at all. And this _isn’t_ a waste of a vote. > > **Normal** exhorts me to vote for someone I don’t think is especially scummy over someone I think _is_. Is that how this game is supposed to work? I admit I don’t have the massive amount ofexpertise that **Normal** does, but I thought we were supposed to vote for people we think are scummy. Not whom _other_ people think are scummy. > > Frankly I think that sucks. But whatevs. Since I think **Gadarene** is town and I’m a bit more neutral on **Astral** , I guess he’s the one for the chop. And I think that sucks too, because I vastly prefer to vote for people on whom I have a much, much stronger feeling. **fubbles** meets that qualification and **Astral** doesn’t… at best he’s only slightly scummish to me, and that’s just because of those triplet votes that saved him the other Day. But okay, **Normal**. You win. > > **unvote fubbleskag** > **vote Astral** I’m trying to do what **Normal** and others have been pressuring me to do, even though **Normal** herself isn’t doing it, because they are more experienced and y’know, maybe I’m wrong. Leaves a bitter taste in my mouth but I do as the majority of the posters want me to do. **Normal** admits she’s a hypocrite but she’s still right. ooookay. Meanwhile, **Tanaer** votes for **Astral** as well. [#1236: Normal is shocked, _shocked_ that people are now voting for **Astral** , claiming it’s because **Guiri** voted for him.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14968401&postcount=1236) [#1238, I take offense at this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14968439&postcount=1238) because she was the one who had hopped on the **Astral** train first (even after the creepy triple-voter voted for him), and she’d bullied me into hopping onto the bandwagon as well. So I give her the scummy scummy scum list she asked me for and still include **fubbles** in my #1 slot, with her at #2. **Normal** claims she’s not blamingg **Guiri** for the **Astral** votes, it’s just odd that everyone’s voting for **Astral** because of **Guiri**. Totally a different thing! I go ballistic at this point (I admit i was having a really bad day IRL so I was more emotional than usual). > [@choie](#): > > Here’s what you sound like to me. “I’m not blaming **Guiri** for the **Astral** bandwagon. Only I totally am because everyone voted for **Astral** only 'cause **Guiri** said so.” > > The hilarious part of this is that you _know_ the only reason I voted **Astral** was because YOU, **Visorslash** and **gnarlycharlie** basically told me if I don’t join a bandwagon I’m not helping town, and I kind of see that, though it goes against the grain to vote someone I’m not at least 75% convinced is scummy, but I do see the pointlessness of going after **fubbles** while the rest of you have managed to convince everyone else he’s harmless. > > Holy cow are you rewriting history or what? _YOU_ voted **Astral** , then when you saw there were more votes on him, you were all “yay, that bandwagon’s safe, now I can vote for **PetW**.” Why were you so happy that there were more votes on **Astral** if you now don’t see him as scum? > > Fuck this noise. You can’t even keep your storyline straight. **Astral** had better be guilty or I am coming after you like God’s own thunder next round. A day goes by. **Astral** gives an awesome goodbye speech. I apologize in advance for feeling confused and letting people bullyrag me (still don’t know if that’s the right term) but I’m torn between voting my conscience and voting the way other alleged townspeople want me to do. Basically I’m a big fat wimp, which I totally cop to. Then, presumably worried that **Astral** ’s extremely townie-sounding goodbye speech might actual change minds, **Normal** is swift to change her vote _again_: > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Switching to someone other than Astral, I mean. I do want Astral lynched over anyone who’s close to him now. > > **unvote > vote: Astral** Not seeing this for nearly an entire day, when I return and spot this (and **septimus** ’s also jumping back on the **Astral** bandwagon he’d been on originally) I can’t take it anymore. Post #1411: > [@choie](#): > > I’m sorry for not being more vocal today, though I think all my posts last night/this morning should count double. 🙂 Also I’m having a really weird experience trying to order a gift basket for a friend. After ordering the basket, I discover the florists’ number doesn’t work, the town’s chamber of commerce doesn’t answer… very scummy indeed. > > Anyway. I’m still suspicious as hell at **Normal** ’s behavior at having started the bandwagon Today on **Astral** , then jumping off, and berating the rest of us for being on it. I agree completely with **Astral** about this “everything you say will be used against you, no matter which response you give” thing. I ran nto this with her in previous games and it is annoying as hell. BUT she’s been town at least once with that same attitude, so as frustrating as it is, it’s not a scum tell on her. > > However, since the only reason I was voting **Astral** was basically to be a good little Townie and do as mommy told me to do, only to see mommy do the opposite (“do as I say, not as I do!”), it’s time for this kid to go through her rebellious phase. > > **unvote Astral > vote Normal Phase** > > Not because of her “AHA Gotcha!” posting style no matter what **Astral** says, but because her bulldozing of the rest of us yesterday seemed aimed at getting **Astral** lynched and her jumping off the bandwagon seemed aimed at making _her_ look good if/when **Astral** flips town. Since I’ve been scolded for voting for **fubbles** and told there’s no way he’ll ever get lynched, fine. I’m going back to voting my conscience, though. So as **Normal** is second on my list of scumminess, she’s up at bat. So, sorry for the Wall of Words, but that’s the full history of why I voted **fubbles** , switched to **Astral** after all the pressure on three fronts, saw **Normal** ’s back/forth bullshit votes once **Astral** ’s valedictory speech convinced many of us that yes, he was Town, and decided that I was sick and tired of being pushed into doing something I didn’t want, and had never wanted, to do. Hence my unvote of **Astral**. As I said, it’s certainly possible **Normal** did all this as a townie, just an incredibly wrongheaded and manipulative one. (Townies can be manipulative too.) But for me it makes a _lot_ more sense if she’s scum. Of course now I’m looking at **Tanaer** for so obviously cutting out the context of **Normal** ’s **PetW** vote in order to misrepresent my description of how things were going. **MHaye** remembers it the same way, so it’s not just me who can recall how all this went down. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1730 "2012-04-23T00:01:26Z")
_Butts in_ Y’know, if you stopped investing so much emotion into the game, you might actually enjoy it. _Butts out_ ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1731 "2012-04-23T00:39:09Z")
I wouldn’t play the game if I didn’t enjoy it, son. We all enjoy it for different reasons. I like the thrust and parry and roleplaying (though I always wish there were more of that involved). You seem to enjoy it for the chance to be misanthropic. _De gustibus._ ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1732 "2012-04-23T01:01:52Z")
Well, I really didn’t think I was being bullshitty or hypocritical there – the logic was clear enough in my mind, anyway. PetW had had a substantial bandwagon at one point (that was actually my reason for switching away from him in the first place), and I pointed that out in my big complaint post. I had no reason to believe it might not come again should I try to get it started, and hope to provide more information down the road than just a silly ten person bandwagon on Astral. And while I appreciate that a townie could read my complaint post and take it as “everybody get on one and only one bandwagon right now or I will bite you dammit”, please not that’s not actually what I SAID. What I said, and what I actually wanted, was for the non-voters and the people with extraneous votes such as (imo) the ones on fubbleskag, the one on scathach, and any others I’m not thinking of right now, to take a position on someone who WAS a threat to be lynched. Those being, IMO at the time, Astral, MHaye, Weedy, Gadarene and PetW. I had no expectation that everyone would join the same bandwagon and didn’t even want it – it was my opinion that there was time enough in the day to sort out two or three options, but not seven or eight. I ultimately left the Astral wagon for the exact same reason I had earlier left PetW’s: it had just kicked up too damn fast and was threatening to run away with the vote by way too much more than necessary, and I hate that. Call me a bully if you want, call my methods harmful or anti-town if you feel that way, but at least try to understand where I’m coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1733 "2012-04-23T01:18:09Z")
I think choie’s tone this game is very different to her past couple. She seems to me to be soft-pushing and smudging a lot of people, which is not something I saw her do before. Also her posts are much less coherent, and she jumps around a lot. If I get time, I’ll go back and quote to show what I mean. Her reply to Tanaer is an example of the kind of agitating I mean. “You seems to have missed…” followed by … “no doubt quoted that one because it’s context-free”. Town choie seems like she would be thinking about the possibility that Tanaer could have missed a post, or chosen the post with the actual unvote because that’s the ‘right’ post, rather than instantly accusing her of scummy motivations. That’s not the best example, because choie might just be OMGUSing as a Townie, but it’s far from the only time choie puts the worst spin possible on someone. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1734 "2012-04-23T01:22:00Z")
I think Choie should be lynched when the phase ever changes. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1735 "2012-04-23T01:22:47Z")
And yes, it makes me see choie as Scummy, since I didn’t actually state that. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1736 "2012-04-23T01:36:10Z")
I finally have some play time this weekend and all my games are full.stop. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1737 "2012-04-23T01:51:05Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > I finally have some play time this weekend and all my games are full.stop. You can reread, yo. What do you think of choie / realitytrip / Red Skeezix? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1738 "2012-04-23T02:11:59Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > You can reread, yo. > > What do you think of choie / realitytrip / Red Skeezix? reality trip and red have not given much of anything to go on. choie either put big foot in mouth in night thread or was just frustrated. so until a new day dawns I dont’ have much for you there ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1739 "2012-04-23T02:36:11Z")
I don’t know, Weedy – choie’s certainly not soft-pushing or smudging me. At least in respect to me she’s a dead ringer for her behavior in De’endee, when she refused to believe that my defense of Silver Jan could be town-motivated. I’d really like to see your further comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1740 "2012-04-23T02:39:10Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > reality trip and red have not given much of anything to go on. > choie either put big foot in mouth in night thread or was just frustrated. so until a new day dawns I dont’ have much for you there RT actually has a decent number of posts. Skeezix made two votes in his short period of being around. Choie’s said a lot prior to the night thread. You can do better, surely? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=86) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=88)