# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 91
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1801 "2012-04-23T15:51:25Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It is _entirely_ possible, maybe even likely, that **Normal** genuinely thought her advocacy of an **Astral** lynch and subsequent unvoting of him was helping Town, and she just didn’t see how damning her comment (parahprase: "woohoo, other people are voting for **Astral** now, so _I_ get to vote my conscience) was both to her own reputation and what she was claiming was the Right Thing for Town. And in fact it’s so blatantly hypocritical and scummy that though I originally was furious with these actions, I almost can’t imagine Scum being so incredibly blatant. As far as I can tell, the reason you two are butting heads is because you think Normal Phase was telling you to unvote fubbles because yours was the only vote on him, when in fact she was saying to unvote because there was no support at all for a fubbles lynch. So while she did then vote for PetW in a one off, it was different because there had been a sizeable wagon on him earlier which had dropped to 0 again quite quickly. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I definitely think PetW could still use some pressure, but the only way I can do it is by reducing the votes on Astral, which is blech. > > Choie, why are you voting for fubbles? He’ll never be lynched today unless Lord Phere does it – with the possible exception of you, nobody seems to think he’s actually scum. Yours and ToeJam’s are worthless votes as things stand. Gadarene’s too probably and maybe even Lightfoot’s. > > **The person with the most support on him by number of votes placed, has no votes currently. This is not good. I don’t know what to do right at the moment.** my bolding Now what I can’t decide is whether choie is misunderstanding or misrepresenting. \*\* vote choie \*\* for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1802 "2012-04-23T15:52:18Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Will you tell me the soldier’s promotion options? Yes, I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. I’ll reveal it publicly to the entirety of town, if we collectively think that’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1803 "2012-04-23T15:55:39Z")
All right. I’ll send over everything but the class name and my item names right now and we’ll take it from there. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1804 "2012-04-23T15:57:58Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I consider that solid enough, given that I have multiple item votes as well and given that he (unlike ToeJam) didn’t deny it. Ah, I had missed \*\*ToeJam’s \*\*denial (I just went back and found the post now). That does seem to answer the question, though I’d still like to see a final corrected Item Vote Count. **Visorslash** , will you either confirm or deny that you are a Double-Voter? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1805 "2012-04-23T16:02:55Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Yes, I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. I’ll reveal it publicly to the entirety of town, if we collectively think that’s a good idea. I’m not sure who you are including in “we” here…but _ **I** _ think it’s a good idea for you to reveal the Soldier promotion options. That is, I can’t think of any reason for you to keep it secret…though I doubt it’s going to actually help us in terms of finding the Bad Guys. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1806 "2012-04-23T16:05:31Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > \*\*\*“Don’t just stand there gawping… like you ain’t never seen the living dead before!” > > \*\*\*-IC- I see ATPG understands that, in a D&D game, death is but a [revolving door](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html). Who here reckons we’ll still be playing at Christmas. Anyway, welcome back to AR and Mosier. Can I ask you both a question - the most important one for any adventurer. _Did you lose a level?_ ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1807 "2012-04-23T16:06:28Z")
Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1808 "2012-04-23T16:09:36Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > I see ATPG understands that, in a D&D game, death is but a [revolving door](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html). Who here reckons we’ll still be playing at Christmas. > > Anyway, welcome back to AR and Mosier. Can I ask you both a question - the most important one for any adventurer. > > _Did you lose a level?_ Nope! I gained a level! Quick, everyone die! We’ll be superpowered in no time! 😃 Normal, I received your PM. I’ll answer your question when I get home, since I can’t copy and paste on my phone easily. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1809 "2012-04-23T16:13:59Z")
Which question? You can’t copy and paste info from role PMs anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1810 "2012-04-23T16:19:15Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Which question? You can’t copy and paste info from role PMs anyway. That’s true, thanks for reminding me. Even better reason to wait until I’m home. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1811 "2012-04-23T16:47:59Z")
Wow. Welcome back, **Astral** and **Mosier**. Though **Mosier** obviously is a bit worrying, considering I can’t imagine Lord Phere raising him for our benefit. I’ve never played a game with ressurections before, so this brings yet another angle for me to chew on. (Does one chew on angles?) **Normal** , your quoting from your PM is non-kosher. Please be careful of that! > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > One small snippet from \*\*choie’s \*\*recent ‘Wall of Words’ post: > > Why are you doing what \*\*Normal \*\*(and others) tell you? Unless they are confirmed Town, that’s not a terribly wise choice. > > And if you don’t take full responsibility for your own votes, then we’re going to have no choice but to lynch you, because any Town player who allows themselves to be manipulated into voting against their better judgement is basically just a tool for Scum, which we cannot afford. > > Now, it’s entirely possible that if you vote your conscience and staunchly defend your votes, we might not like them and still lynch you anyway, but at least at that point we can gain something from your death. If you just meekly ‘do as you’re told’, then you provide us absolutely no information. Huh? I figured that out on my own, obviously. I realized it was wrong to let them pressure me and voted my own choice. Of course you’re free to mistrust me for letting them get to me for a while, but it seems kind of unfair to chide me for behavior that I eventually corrected and acknowledged was a mistake. As to this: > [@Scathach](#): > > As far as I can tell, the reason you two are butting heads is because you think Normal Phase was telling you to unvote fubbles because yours was the only vote on him, when in fact she was saying to unvote because there was no support at all for a fubbles lynch. So while she did then vote for PetW in a one off, it was different because there had been a sizeable wagon on him earlier which had dropped to 0 again quite quickly. > > my bolding > > Now what I can’t decide is whether choie is misunderstanding or misrepresenting. > > \*\* vote choie \*\* > for the moment. That’s a fair vote since I can understand being confused, but honestly I’m even more confused (I was up pretty late last night/this a.m.) because I don’t see a quantitative difference between the two. By the time I’d seen that she’d changed her mind to vote **PetW** , the **Astral** vote was getting to be a _fait accompli_ (it was before the landslide began but at that point he did have six votes on him–I think **Visorslash** and **Silver Jan** had joined her and **septimus** , not to mention the three **pizza** votes). And I don’t recall her making any effort to convince people to vote for **PetW** over **Astral**. (If she _did_make a concerted effort to push people to vote for **PetW** instead of **Astral** , I stand corrected. But all I see after her **PetW** vote is: > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I know PetW is very unlikely to win the day now, but I didn’t know that at the time I switched, that the next five players were all going to vote for Astral. PetW is approximately as suspicious to me as Astral is and I wanted the bandwagon on him viable for as long as was reasonable so that more information would be available from votes down the road. Seeing the runaway on Astral was intensely frustrating. which doesn’t exactly seem like a rousing “Switch to **PetW** guys!” kinda speech to me. In fact in looking back during that time period from switching to **PetW** and then switching back to **Astral** , she continued to tar **Astral** far more than making any case on **PetW** ) So what’s the difference between voting for someone you think is scum that you can’t convince others to vote for although you try to do so (what I had been doing with **fubbles** ), and voting for someone you think is scum that you _don’t_ try to convince others to vote for (what she did after switching from **Astral** to **PetW** )? I guess I’m saying you should pin this down to misunderstanding because, swear to God, I still don’t see a difference between the two when it comes to the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1812 "2012-04-23T16:49:41Z")
…and crap, I’m sorry, **pizzaguy** , for forgetting to bleach the vote on me. Proof of my tiredness, especially after haranguing everyone to do this myself. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1813 "2012-04-23T17:22:22Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Wow. Welcome back, **Astral** and **Mosier**. Though **Mosier** obviously is a bit worrying, considering I can’t imagine Lord Phere raising him for our benefit. I’ve never played a game with ressurections before, so this brings yet another angle for me to chew on. (Does one chew on angles?) > > **Normal** , your quoting from your PM is non-kosher. Please be careful of that! What quoting, the “town” and “good” thing? I don’t think that crosses the line. It wasn’t even a quote, technically, just my memory of the “town” category being different from the “good” category. > [@](#): > > That’s a fair vote since I can understand being confused, but honestly I’m even more confused (I was up pretty late last night/this a.m.) because I don’t see a quantitative difference between the two. Well, scathach does have it right, whether you see a distinction or not. I included PetW in the group of players who stood a good chance to get lynched at that point; you seem never to have acknowledged that, or seen it as meaningful, or something. > [@](#): > > By the time I’d seen that she’d changed her mind to vote **PetW** , the **Astral** vote was getting to be a _fait accompli_ (it was before the landslide began but at that point he did have six votes on him–I think **Visorslash** and **Silver Jan** had joined her and **septimus** , not to mention the three **pizza** votes). And I don’t recall her making any effort to convince people to vote for **PetW** over **Astral**. (If she _did_make a concerted effort to push people to vote for **PetW** instead of **Astral** , I stand corrected. But all I see after her **PetW** vote is: All right, here’s where you seem to be doing the very thing that Astral was accusing me of doing to him. You see one thing you don’t understand, and rather than making an effort to determine whether there might be any town motivation behind it that you might have missed, you determine that “I don’t understand this” = “this is scum” and fit everything else around it into that picture. Until Astral made his farewell post and triggered the ever-loving crap out of my scumdar for the second time, I could not have told you which of him and PetW I found more suspicious. So why should I have pushed for either of them to be lynched over the other? Why do anything other than what I did do, which was to keep the vote fluid to the best of my ability (which wasn’t much) and see where people jumped? I had made my suspicions of each of them perfectly clear, as well as my belief that end of day votes belonged in a limited pool that included the both of them. Why would you even expect me to do anything else? > [@](#): > > So what’s the difference between voting for someone you think is scum that you can’t convince others to vote for although you try to do so (what I had been doing with **fubbles** ), Well, technically no. You have never to this point – correct me if I’m wrong – expressed any actual suspicion of fubbles AS SCUM. Only as third party, correct? Can’t stop myself from being persnickety. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1814 "2012-04-23T17:52:26Z")
That was a strange and pleasant turn of events. I have felt so guilty at having a hand in **Astral** s death although he did point out that we still can’t be sure he is Town but it’s really starting to like as if he is. **Mosier** didn’t even have a chance to defend himself on D1, it will be interesting to see what he has to say. **Pendant: Silver Jan** I like jewels and I see **Believerer** has voted for himself. Glad to see you berated yourself for not bleaching a vote\*\* Choie\*\*, you saved me some trouble hehehe. I can’t really see a case on\*\* Choie\*\* yet, she seems to be playing the same way she normally does. There are a few players that I have a Town lean on and they are all accusing each other of being scum. I think\*\* PetW\*\* is worth having another look at because I also seem to have been wrong about\*\* Guiri\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1815 "2012-04-23T17:53:40Z")
Zombie Mosier stumbles toward the group of heroic warriors gathering to protect the town. He looks at all of the delicious flesh around him. “You been buuuusy since I die. Tell me everything…nevermind, it is tooooooo much.” Mosier is swaying back and forth like a tree limb in the breeze. “Actually, just sum it up. Who is bad? I eat their braaaains out. Is it day, or night? My eyes not work so good no more.” ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1816 "2012-04-23T17:59:31Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Zombie Mosier stumbles toward the group of heroic warriors gathering to protect the town. He looks at all of the delicious flesh around him. > > “You been buuuusy since I die. Tell me everything…nevermind, it is tooooooo much.” Mosier is swaying back and forth like a tree limb in the breeze. “Actually, just sum it up. Who is bad? I eat their braaaains out. Is it day, or night? My eyes not work so good no more.” Zombie high-five! Wait. Somebody reconnect my arm for me? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1817 "2012-04-23T18:02:52Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > What quoting, the “town” and “good” thing? I don’t think that crosses the line. It wasn’t even a quote, technically, just my memory of the “town” category being different from the “good” category. I really don’t know what **pizzaguy** ’s cutoff is as far as how much we can say. All I know is in his original rules he said no quoting from PMs period – you can say “I’m a mage” but no OOC quoting from the PM. It’s a fuzzy line to be sure. I just don’t want you to cross it. If you end up getting killed I’d rather it be by lynching, not by mod fiat. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Well, scathach does have it right, whether you see a distinction or not. I included PetW in the group of players who stood a good chance to get lynched at that point; you seem never to have acknowledged that, or seen it as meaningful, or something. But how did **PetW** have a shot at being lynched when there were literally no votes on **PetW** and everyone who’d at one time voted **PetW** had specifically decided to _unvote_, presumably no longer thinking **PetW** was scum? And as I said, you didn’t make any further attempts to get people to agree with you, so where was this sudden vote swing from **Astral** back to **PetW** – a swing at the time that you didn’t even really want (if I’m understanding your “reducing votes on Astral = blech” remark correctly) – where was this switch gonna come from? I’m not saying this because I’m mischaracterizing facts to prove my own thesis; this is just what happened, no judgment whatsoever either way. > [@](#): > > All right, here’s where you seem to be doing the very thing that Astral was accusing me of doing to him. You see one thing you don’t understand, and rather than making an effort to determine whether there might be any town motivation behind it that you might have missed, you determine that “I don’t understand this” = “this is scum” and fit everything else around it into that picture. Sucks to be hoisted on the end of your own petard, huh? But anyway, as I said above, I’m not trying to prove you scum, I’m recounting the plain facts, at least as I remembered them and subsequently backed that up by looking for whatever posts you may have made trying to plead the case to vote for **PetW** and found none. I was defending myself as non-scum, not calling YOU scum. I mean, yeah, I _do_ suspect you’re scum, but I really don’t think I’ve misstated any facts here, nor do I think I’ve tilted them one way or another. Maybe I have and I just can’t see it, in which case I’m genuinely sorry. > [@](#): > > Until Astral made his farewell post and triggered the ever-loving crap out of my scumdar for the second time, I could not have told you which of him and PetW I found more suspicious. So why should I have pushed for either of them to be lynched over the other? Why do anything other than what I did do, which was to keep the vote fluid to the best of my ability (which wasn’t much) and see where people jumped? I had made my suspicions of each of them perfectly clear, as well as my belief that end of day votes belonged in a limited pool that included the both of them. Why would you even expect me to do anything else? Because what was the point of just hopping to **PetW** to “keep the vote fluid” if a) everyone had already tried that bandwagon earlier and then decided against it, and b) you weren’t going to try to sway others to vote the same way? I’m sorry, I just do not understand this. Maybe I’m lacking the correct Mafia gene, but it’s a strategy that is utterly beyond me. Which I’m assuming is my fault, not yours. > [@](#): > > Well, technically no. You have never to this point – correct me if I’m wrong – expressed any actual suspicion of fubbles AS SCUM. Only as third party, correct? I believe he’s scum or third party, and either way, I don’t trust him. Again, this is probably my Mafia gene deficiency, but to me, anyone working against Town is scummy, whether literally or not, and should be eliminated if at all possible. Since I had a stronger read on him (at the time) as anti-town (third party or scum, whatever) than I did on a literal Team Scum candidate (you), I preferred to vote for him. I’m afraid I’m still learning even after playing two whole games. Maybe when I’ve played 3494745939755 mafia games on 47393 different boards like you, I’ll catch up and understand the apparently massive difference between “voting for someone no one else is going to vote for but trying to convince people to do so nevertheless” and “voting for someone whom everyone has _affirmatively chosen_ to unvote/exonerate and not trying to persuade them to jump back on that person’s bandwagon.” 'Cause again, I’m just not seeing why one of these vote choices is more worthless than the other. ---
**Author:** ![Believerer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/53a042/32.png) [@Believerer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Believerer)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1818 "2012-04-23T18:03:32Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Your first daytime post, and that’s all you have to say? > > :dubious: Considering all the facts, it’s hardly surprising that I failed to post last day (or is it “Day” here?). Normal Phase, Visorslash and ATPG know my playing style and it will become obvious how I prefer to play. I did not lurk however, I was prohibited from posting earlier than I did. Now I’m around forever (and you shall know it). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1819 "2012-04-23T18:19:42Z")
> [@choie](#): > > But how did **PetW** have a shot at being lynched when there were literally no votes on **PetW** and everyone who’d at one time voted **PetW** had specifically decided to _unvote_, presumably no longer thinking **PetW** was scum? There’s no presumably there. The only player I specifically remember as disavowing his original vote was gnarlycharlie. > [@](#): > > And as I said, you didn’t make any further attempts to get people to agree with you, so where was this sudden vote swing from **Astral** back to **PetW** – a swing at the time that you didn’t even really want (if I’m understanding your “reducing votes on Astral = blech” remark correctly) – where was this switch gonna come from? You’re not understanding me correctly. In my version of an ideal world at that point I would have seen several votes on each of them. Yet until a couple of additional people put votes on Astral, I could not put PetW back into the running without all but taking Astral out of it. And I did not want to do that. Once the couple of votes did come on Astral, that was no longer an issue. Votes could have come from anyone, either PetW’s earlier voters or others who had yet to vote but who liked the case better than the other reasonable options. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying this because I’m mischaracterizing facts to prove my own thesis; this is just what happened, no judgment whatsoever either way. > > Sucks to be hoisted on the end of your own petard, huh? I blow myself up all the time, haha. > [@](#): > > But anyway, as I said above, I’m not trying to prove you scum, I’m recounting the plain facts, at least as I remembered them and subsequently backed that up by looking for whatever posts you may have made trying to plead the case to vote for **PetW** and found none. I was defending myself as non-scum, not calling YOU scum. OK, well that case you don’t actually have to make to me, not likely toDay or in the near future. If you are scum, then you took the perfect strategy to defeat my radar by the way you attacked me yesterday. I’m still waiting on Weedy, granted, but it’s a pretty powerful impression. > [@](#): > > I mean, yeah, I _do_ suspect you’re scum, but I really don’t think I’ve misstated any facts here, nor do I think I’ve tilted them one way or another. Maybe I have and I just can’t see it, in which case I’m genuinely sorry. > > Because what was the point of just hopping to **PetW** to “keep the vote fluid” if a) everyone had already tried that bandwagon earlier and then decided against it, and b) you weren’t going to try to sway others to vote the same way? I’m sorry, I just do not understand this. Maybe I’m lacking the correct Mafia gene, but it’s a strategy that is utterly beyond me. Which I’m assuming is my fault, not yours. I don’t know, maybe it’s mine. It made sense to me at the time. Two roughly equal suspects, about each of whom I had said what I needed to say, and (I thought) some chance that votes might be placed on both of them. It seemed like win/win to me in terms of getting what I wanted out of the day. > [@](#): > > I believe he’s scum or third party, and either way, I don’t trust him. Again, this is probably my Mafia gene deficiency, but to me, anyone working against Town is scummy, whether literally or not, and should be eliminated if at all possible. Since I had a stronger read on him (at the time) as anti-town (third party or scum, whatever) than I did on a literal Team Scum candidate (you), I preferred to vote for him. > > I’m afraid I’m still learning even after playing two whole games. Maybe when I’ve played 3494745939755 mafia games on 47393 different boards like you, I’ll catch up and understand the apparently massive difference between “voting for someone no one else is going to vote for but trying to convince people to do so nevertheless” and “voting for someone whom everyone has _affirmatively chosen_ to unvote/exonerate and not trying to persuade them to jump back on that person’s bandwagon.” 'Cause again, I’m just not seeing why one of these vote choices is more worthless than the other. Really the only thing that made me push you so hard on that was the vote count at the time I did the pushing. It was late, I thought the day was ending in 18 hours or so, and I was terrified of a last-minute panic/vote manipulation. I pushed too hard and did more harm than good. Shit happens. Don’t get down on yourself so much, choie. I really do not think you suck at this game, not in the slightest, and I don’t think anyone else does either. We just butt heads. Again, shit happens. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1820 "2012-04-23T18:21:58Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m still just typing like me, not much I can do about that. Enjoy this: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3jHk46\_h6M&yt:cc=on#t=236s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3jHk46_h6M&yt:cc=on#t=236s) (If it helps, mentally change “Maggie” to “Normal.”) And, since my birthday’s coming up … **Pendant: septimus** > [@Believerer](#): > > I did not lurk however, I was prohibited from posting earlier than I did. Now I’m around forever (and you shall know it). Can you tell us more about that prohibition? There are others lurking; I wonder if they’re also operating under restrictions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=90) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=92)