# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 95
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1881 "2012-04-24T12:47:03Z")
> [@BobArrgh](#): > > This is utterly ridiculous. When I made this statement, it was still Day 1, and the items had not changed hands. No it wasn’t, it was D2. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1882 "2012-04-24T12:48:58Z")
One more question, Astral – you seem to be criticizing Silver Jan in part because of her saying the triple vote “confirms” how you look scummy, yet absent that word “confirms”, almost everyone else who voted for you for any reason at all also considered that an issue. Weedy did, MHaye did. Yet you had no problems with their posts. Explain the difference. Also explain why I should even bother trying to “solidify” a case on you when I had perfectly good cases on MHaye or PetW I could have stuck with instead. Your insistence that my case against you is dishonest baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1883 "2012-04-24T12:50:21Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > No it wasn’t, it was D2. Quite, but I still get what he’s saying. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1884 "2012-04-24T12:53:30Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Quite, but I still get what he’s saying. But I never said they had changed hands? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1885 "2012-04-24T12:57:52Z")
I need coffee. He’s saying (despite placing the vote on day one instead of day two) that the items had never changed hands yet. This is in fact the case unless people were passing them around behind the scenes. If he were inclined to be paranoid about item trades, the point at which the items first come up for vote would be the point at which he would worry about it. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Believerer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/53a042/32.png) [@Believerer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Believerer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1886 "2012-04-24T13:00:43Z")
I agree with Scathath’s analysis. Especially the part about items being bombs and the 1/3-town thing. It’s just deliberate misinformation. \*\* vote BobArrgh \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1887 "2012-04-24T13:02:55Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I need coffee. He’s saying (despite placing the vote on day one instead of day two) that the items had never changed hands yet. This is in fact the case unless people were passing them around behind the scenes. If he were inclined to be paranoid about item trades, the point at which the items first come up for vote would be the point at which he would worry about it. Right? Ok - I see, but it still seems overly paranoid. Like, for the “bomb” or “poison” to trigger, the person holding it first has to die and then hope that it gets passed to the person they want to kill? Anyway, even leaving that point out entirely, I still think there’s a good case on BobArrgh. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1888 "2012-04-24T13:29:56Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > One more question, Astral – you seem to be criticizing Silver Jan in part because of her saying the triple vote “confirms” how you look scummy, yet absent that word “confirms”, almost everyone else who voted for you for any reason at all also considered that an issue. Weedy did, MHaye did. Yet you had no problems with their posts. Explain the difference. This “question” feels scummy for me. You’re overstating how much of my case hinges on Silver Jan’s use of the word “confirms.” Saying “you seem to be criticizing Silver Jan in part because…” and then picking the very smallest part of my case to question feels like you’re trying to minimize my entire case. Nevertheless, I can answer your question. In a comment where Silver Jan has already done a reversal on her previously stated position on my Day 1 voting shenanigans, it doesn’t seem weird to you that she would then seriously overstate that case, saying it seems “confirmed?” > [@](#): > > Also explain why I should even bother trying to “solidify” a case on you when I had perfectly good cases on MHaye or PetW I could have stuck with instead. Your insistence that my case against you is dishonest baffles me. What do you want me to say? Scum build cases on people. That’s the game. If I had to pick a guess on why a scummy Normal would build a case on me instead of PetW or MHaye, I’d say it’s because MHaye was unlikely to be lynched, and PetW was too early in the day, so you wanted to look involved by building another case. You accuse me of taking the easy road with my suspicions on lilflower and realitytrip… isn’t building a case on me, when **everybody** was suspicious of me, the ultimate “easy” case? ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1889 "2012-04-24T13:37:00Z")
Also, what with all the risen dead running around, does that mean that this game was balanced with the idea of us all slaughtering each other at a more rapid rate than we can be raised? Or is there a limit on the amount of people that can be raised? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1890 "2012-04-24T13:39:10Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Also, what with all the risen dead running around, does that mean that this game was balanced with the idea of us all slaughtering each other at a more rapid rate than we can be raised? Or is there a limit on the amount of people that can be raised? I think this is a very good guess. I’d suspect there are more resurrections available, because I don’t think people would have used them on me and Mosier otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1891 "2012-04-24T14:01:17Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This “question” feels scummy for me. You’re overstating how much of my case hinges on Silver Jan’s use of the word “confirms.” Saying “you seem to be criticizing Silver Jan in part because…” and then picking the very smallest part of my case to question feels like you’re trying to minimize my entire case. Argh. No. I was actually asking just what I asked. Why is everyone reading something other than what I actually put on the screen? I wanted to know why this issue is a factor against Silver Jan but does not rate a mention when others who I am mildly to moderately suspicious of use the same argument against you. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, I can answer your question. In a comment where Silver Jan has already done a reversal on her previously stated position on my Day 1 voting shenanigans, it doesn’t seem weird to you that she would then seriously overstate that case, saying it seems “confirmed?” OK, in that context I can see where you’re coming from. > [@](#): > > What do you want me to say? Scum build cases on people. That’s the game. If I had to pick a guess on why a scummy Normal would build a case on me instead of PetW or MHaye, I’d say it’s because MHaye was unlikely to be lynched, and PetW was too early in the day, so you wanted to look involved by building another case. You accuse me of taking the easy road with my suspicions on lilflower and realitytrip… isn’t building a case on me, when **everybody** was suspicious of me, the ultimate “easy” case? Bad Astral. Who’s got the confirmation bias now? The only near-universal among scum is that they’re not all that interested in having people pissed off at them. Up to that point you were if anything on my side, as we were both voting for MHaye. Why would a scum me be eager to change that? At least admit that “sheer stupidity” would be by far the most likely explanation for something like that; in a weird way it would make me feel better. As an aside, no – making a case against you on behavioral grounds is not something I’d ever see as an easy case, regardless of other circumstances. We should talk about realitytrip, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1892 "2012-04-24T15:07:34Z")
> [@Believerer](#): > > I agree with Scathath’s analysis. Especially the part about items being bombs and the 1/3-town thing. It’s just deliberate misinformation. > \*\* vote BobArrgh \*\* **vote Believerer** He’s had two ‘substantive’ posts in this game: One in which he votes to give himself an Item, and this one in which he votes for **BobArrgh** (and personally I think \*\*Scathach’s \*\*case which he “agrees with” is rather thin). I’d like to see some sort of thought process beyond “I need help because I’m running behind” and “what he said”. And yes, this is a ‘pressure vote’. make of that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1893 "2012-04-24T15:18:26Z")
**Visorslash** , Are you a Double-Voter? ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1894 "2012-04-24T15:22:55Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Day 2, not Day 1. There aren’t “rules” for it, but you hopped on a wagon with a me-two vote. > > In fact, I don’t understand any of your questions. I explain in the first section my feelings on that whole wagon, and I discuss Silver Jan at length as a suspicious person. i stand corrected about the Day. it still doesn’t make pressure votes wrong. it also doesn’t make “me too” votes wrong either. if you agree with a case, why shouldn’t one place a vote in as well? isn’t that the point of making cases? you want people to agree with you. “me too” votes in themselves are neither townie or scummy. what do you think of **Suburban Plankton** ’s pressure vote? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1895 "2012-04-24T15:30:50Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Argh. Umm, No. Pizza’s lax about the colors, but at a minimum you need boldface and the word Vote; something like **Vote: BobArrgh** > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > We should talk about realitytrip, I think. Your case didn’t sway me (for one thing, I think you may have misinterpreted his reference to 3-vote margin: that’s just _two_ more than the normal required margin, not three more. And in #1700 you wrote “I don’t particularly think he’s mafia, though.” I’m more interested in your **MHaye** case. (One way he could defend himself is to find a prior game when he was Town but used the “top-down” scum-hunting you accuse him of here.) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1896 "2012-04-24T15:37:45Z")
That bit about realitytrip was just to Astral really; I’ve PMed him. I’m not trying to make a case against RT, at least at this point. I should go drag out my posts against MHaye and see if he still strikes me the same way. I"m just so freaking tired. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1897 "2012-04-24T16:06:48Z")
scathach – what do you think about Bob’s protection of glee on day one, and what it says or doesn’t say about his alignment that he would do that? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1898 "2012-04-24T17:31:06Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > **Normal Phase** : > Yes, I tried to shoot you. I found it curious that you could avoid my damage entirely without a guard from someone else, but of course I was dead and couldn’t say anything about that. > > Up to you on what you do now. Reveal publicly, PM me, or tell me to go lick a walnut and stay silent on the issue. I trust you to act in what you believe is the most pro-town manner, if you’re town. Can you refresh my memory? When did you try to shoot \*\* Normal \*\* ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1899 "2012-04-24T17:34:05Z")
Normal’s post prompted queries by me and cleared up my misconception. I saw Pizza’s correction (post #597) but didn’t “update my notes” and kept referring to the main D1 reveal. :rolleyes: Call me a Scummish Skimmer if you want, but in fact I’ve RL distractions and, perhaps, increasing senescence. :smack: **Unvote: BobArrgh** I don’t think his protection totally clears Bob. (Scum might have asked and learned protections would be revealed, and thrown a red herring.) But I wouldn’t have left Bob as my top suspect if I’d remembered he’d protected Glee D1. That brings me down to zero strong scum suspects. In better news, there are several Players who give me strong Townie sense. **Vote: Abstain** ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1900 "2012-04-24T17:54:30Z")
fuck me, I turn my back for 10 seconds and look at all this shit. welcome back **Astral** and **Mosier**. I love that **Mosier** ’s resurrection seems to have come at a cost that is at the very least comical. I’m not sold on the **BobArrgh** case or seemingly rapid bandwagon, but if he edits another post I’ll be happy to get on board for that reason alone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=94) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=96)