# \[Mafia game\] The Realm of Phere **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480 "2012-04-01T15:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 99
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1961 "2012-04-25T16:07:08Z")
Quite. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1962 "2012-04-25T17:03:14Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > And??? > > I don’t recall seeing a rule against editing in this game, so what’s the problem? > > If you think that editing posts is a Scum tell, then vote for him. If you don’t think that editing posts is a Scum tell, then there’s no reason for you to bring it up. And??? I don’t recall seeing a rule against being against editing in this game, so what’s the problem? If you think that being against editing is a Scum tell, then vote for me. If you don’t think that being against editing is a Scum tell, then there’s no reason for you to bring it up. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m baffled why we’d want to lynch somebody we already lynched before. What additional info do you expect to come from such a lynch? Build a real case on someone so the vote record can show suspicions and shed more light on the game. > > If you really want Mosier dead again, we should use our attacks for that. you and your common sense can just go to hell! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1963 "2012-04-25T17:27:43Z")
Amusing. We’re cool, fubs. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1964 "2012-04-25T17:47:02Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Ah, I had missed \*\*ToeJam’s \*\*denial (I just went back and found the post now). That does seem to answer the question, though I’d still like to see a final corrected Item Vote Count. > > **Visorslash** , will you either confirm or deny that you are a Double-Voter? I don’t recall seeing this addressed? I checked [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=7952061) is the sum total of \*\* Visorslash’s \*\* posts. I don’t see a bunch of substance, and the avoidance of a simple question is suspect to me. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1965 "2012-04-25T17:59:12Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > His was the attack on me at the end of day two, when he was lynched. I look up to the sky and shield myself from it, taking no damage. He tried to perforate me with an arrow, presumably. So we see that you are a double voter, and have some kind of Day protection. nice package ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1966 "2012-04-25T17:59:21Z")
**Weedy** , that’s okay. Just because I felt attacked doesn’t mean you were actually attacking me. My feelings are all over the place really, so it had nothing to do with you. Pre-warning to **Visorslash** : there are many screennames mentioned below, which means a lot of bolding. You may want to avert your gaze. 😉 > [@Tanaer](#): > > That said, the Phere-raised zombie bothers me. It bothers me for this possible reason: Phere sacrifices a night kill to raise a zombie - why? Wait, I’m confused. (I should just have that on a macro.) Why do you think Phere sacrificed a night kill? **Guiri** was killed by Phere last Night. Have I missed a rule where we know Phere has two kills every Night? Anyway… if y’all start suspecting **fubbles** because he’s not Town… I’ll–I’ll–well, I’m not sure _what_ I’ll do, but it’ll be annoyingly smug. Heh. I’m not against attacking him, obviously, I’ve never trusted him fully, but most people said earlier that killing third party folks isn’t the best strategy rather than seeing out-and-out Scum. So to that end, I’m thinking back to that long ago Day (well, it _seems_ long in out-of-game time) when we had a horse race between **Astral Rejection** and **Gadarene**. That was the day when everyone was voting AR but to our surprise **Mosier** got the lynch. The next Night/Day I think we were arguing about whether **Mosier** was killed to spare **Astral** or **Gadarene**. That’s basically one of the reasons **Astral** seemed suspicious. Well, he was lynched and it appears, at least on the surface if we’re assuming Good sorta _leans_ Town at least, that he was likely Town, or at least Not Scum. Which (I think) indicates that the **Mosier** lynch wasn’t intended to benefit **Astral**. So… my suspicions are turning to **Gadarene** , who’s been unusually silent this round. I’ve said he felt Townish to me, but there’s that **Mosier** lynch, and his near-hysteria the following Day, and now his sudden lack of activity, and for me that feels wrong, and not like **Gadarene** at all. It’s like he wants to stay out of sight lest we remember that **Astral** wasn’t the only beneficiary of that **Mosier** lynch. (NOTE: If I’ve forgotten a post where he said he wouldn’t be active due to some real life stuff, this is null and void.) After **Astral** flipped… well, possibly town, I guess we still don’t know for sure, which sucks, but I think the fact that Phere didn’t raise _him_ does indicate a Town (or at least a non-alliance with Phere) role, I did say I’d go after **Normal** , whose behavior the Day **Astral** was killed was all over the map and remains odd to me, though her explanations are persuasive. I guess I just want that first Day lynch, seemingly ripped out of our hands, to make sense, dammit. So I’ll just **FOS Normal** and **vote Gadarene** for now. (The lighter blue color is to indicate my tentativeness, because he did seem Townish, but as I said… I wanna know what happened that first Day!) (I also really really want to hear from the lurkers. It seems crazy and hella anti-Town to be so silent this far in the game. People like **Lilflower** make me very nervous.) ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1967 "2012-04-25T18:03:04Z")
I think **Gnarly** could be on the right track with there not being many scum, that’s perhaps why I am having a problem with my vote toDay. I wouldn’t think that all the people that Town have lynched would come back as scum though, that would be too easy to figure out, there has to be a twist somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1968 "2012-04-25T18:10:30Z")
**Choie** , I thought **Gaderene** was the lynch leader on D1 and **Astral** was second. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1969 "2012-04-25T18:18:13Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > So we see that you are a double voter, and have some kind of Day protection. > nice package Normal’s day protection makes sense to me. If you remember from my full claim, I have an item that blocks 25 hit points of damage. Normal having a similar item that blocks at least 50 HP damage does not seem hard to believe. I think I remember her saying she has such an item. The armor is likely unrelated to her class, is what I’m saying. Not really a package deal. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1970 "2012-04-25T18:25:05Z")
I have too many suspects, not too few. NAF – very careful to stay away from being auto-killed thus far, but hasn’t said a thing. there’s busy and then there’s “Here I am! There I go.” Red Skeezix – same thing more or less, two quick votes on day two and otherwise not to be found. Storyteller, turning up again on the same day he would have been autokilled. Gets a pass as long as he keeps talking. Not actually lilflower at the moment, unless she reappears before Pizza kills her (which should be tomorrow I think). Realitytrip and PetW, both of whom have disappeared off the face of the earth since getting some public suspicion. MHaye, carry-over from day one and wasn’t a huge fan of his casual agreement with choie on my PetW unvote either. I probably shouldn’t even get started on the people I’m just paranoid about. But I don’t like Weedy’s case on choie much. Astral’s got me all worried about Silver Jan all of a sudden, who I’ve been more or less accepting as town since she failed to get freaked out by a challenge on day one. And of course Astral himself. And Believerer, who I think could sell me the Brooklyn Bridge. Am I forgetting anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1971 "2012-04-25T18:30:39Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > And of course Astral himself. 😉 That wink is too tiny for my intended comic reply. Oh well. Normal, your reads seem honest to me, and I’m on board with your suspicions. Keep this up, and I’ll downgrade my suspicions of you to “thermonuclear.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1972 "2012-04-25T18:35:32Z")
Haha. Salute, Astral. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1973 "2012-04-25T18:49:36Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > I have the standard Town win condition just like the rest(?) of you. I’m not going to apologize for wanting to explore the open aspects of this game for my own enjoyment as I stated early on. No apology requested or expected, at least not from me; it’s a game, and whatever’s fun for you is fine by me in an out of game sense. But in an _in game_ sense, we have a problem. Because I _also_ intend to play the game in a way that’s fun for _me_, and that means trying to identify the Bad Guys. Now, I’ll stipulate that it’s possible that you’re Town and just “exploring the open aspects of this game.” But your exploration, currently, involves doing something that is not consistent with a Town win condition. From my perspective, the case where you’re actually Town but behaving as if you’re not is not distinguishable from the case where you’re not Town. On the whole, this makes me want to hit you with a handy piece of spiked metal or a fireball or a Fezzik-style rock until you’re not in the game anymore. On top of that, what you’re offering - trading information about items for unspecified services rendered, presumably on an individual basis and in private - is a crappy deal for Town as a whole. As far as I can tell, you don’t have the leverage to offer such a bad deal. Exactly how to handle this, I’m not sure yet, but I’d suggest that if you plan to play negotiator, you should be prepared to actually _negotiate._ If that’s not an option for you at all… well, then we have a really _big_ problem. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1974 "2012-04-25T18:54:04Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m baffled why we’d want to lynch somebody we already lynched before. What additional info do you expect to come from such a lynch? Build a real case on someone so the vote record can show suspicions and shed more light on the game. > > If you really want Mosier dead again, we should use our attacks for that. Well… OK… normally I’d agree. Except - what information did we actually get from the _first_ time? Normally it’s pretty straightforward: “Bob and Suzie voted for Steve, Steve died and was Town, what do we make of this?” But we don’t even know the alignments of the returned players. Actually, on some level, and given this, I would think that any player who voted to lynch someone and then _didn’t_ vote to lynch them again upon their return from the dead, with no additional information since the first time, ought to have a damn good explanation for it. If (s)he was Scummy enough to vote for previously, and now is back and nothing has changed, why is (s)he no longer worth a vote? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1975 "2012-04-25T19:03:58Z")
That’s a crutch. “I voted for Mosier before. Now he’s alive again, but I still want him dead.” What can you now surmise from the player? It’s a meaningless, informationless vote. It requires no additional case making. And further, early lynches are overwhelmingly likely to be town players, so Mosier is likely town. It’s like repeating a day, when there are other tools available to us to deal with Mosier if we so choose. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1976 "2012-04-25T19:14:28Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > No apology requested or expected, at least not from me; it’s a game, and whatever’s fun for you is fine by me in an out of game sense. > > But in an _in game_ sense, we have a problem. Because I _also_ intend to play the game in a way that’s fun for _me_, and that means trying to identify the Bad Guys. Now, I’ll stipulate that it’s possible that you’re Town and just “exploring the open aspects of this game.” But your exploration, currently, involves doing something that is not consistent with a Town win condition. From my perspective, the case where you’re actually Town but behaving as if you’re not is not distinguishable from the case where you’re not Town. On the whole, this makes me want to hit you with a handy piece of spiked metal or a fireball or a Fezzik-style rock until you’re not in the game anymore. > > On top of that, what you’re offering - trading information about items for unspecified services rendered, presumably on an individual basis and in private - is a crappy deal for Town as a whole. As far as I can tell, you don’t have the leverage to offer such a bad deal. Exactly how to handle this, I’m not sure yet, but I’d suggest that if you plan to play negotiator, you should be prepared to actually _negotiate._ If that’s not an option for you at all… well, then we have a really _big_ problem. I can understand your position on everything you said, but I don’t understand the last bit about negotiating - can you clarify? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1977 "2012-04-25T19:38:42Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Actually, on some level, and given this, I would think that any player who voted to lynch someone and then _didn’t_ vote to lynch them again upon their return from the dead, with no additional information since the first time, ought to have a damn good explanation for it. If (s)he was Scummy enough to vote for previously, and now is back and nothing has changed, why is (s)he no longer worth a vote? You may have missed Mosier’s means of death, which came directly from the head baddy himself. That does suggest VERY strongly, IMO, that he was not scum at the time of his death. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1978 "2012-04-25T19:41:46Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You may have missed Mosier’s means of death, which came directly from the head baddy himself. That does suggest VERY strongly, IMO, that he was not scum at the time of his death. I think this might be putting a lot more stock in what is, in the end, color, than I’m comfortable doing at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1979 "2012-04-25T19:44:33Z")
Then where do you think the triple votes come from? They’re clearly not town. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480/1980 "2012-04-25T19:47:14Z")
With no strong Scum candidates among active players, but several inactive players (en route to Mod-kill?) and semi-lurkers (trying to sail between Scylla and Charybdis?), that latter group seems the place to Lynch: **Unvote; Vote: RealityTrip** > [@ToeJam](#): > > Vote Pendant to Zombie Mosier… > … That said, I don’t trust Zombies, and feel like we’ve got a Necromancer now finally in our ranks. Hopefully a “Townie” necro, but to me, it does feel like the obvious “3rd Party Mad Bomber” win condition- create an army of Zombies and take out the Town. Why give a present to someone you “don’t trust”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=98) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-game-the-realm-of-phere/617480.md?page=100)