# Mafia: Goontown \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [September 22, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754 "2018-09-22T22:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/221 "2018-10-03T21:10:16Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Oh, right. No vote tags. > > **Vote Stranger on the Train** You’re going to force me to switch my vote to you so as not to get booted on the first round. You sure you want to do that? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/222 "2018-10-03T21:15:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You’re going to force me to switch my vote to you so as not to get booted on the first round. You sure you want to do that? > > Stranger Sure. It’s either you or Johnny, and we have a whole day to go. And threats stopped bothering me long ago. My cheery disposition tends to bring them on. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/223 "2018-10-03T21:22:57Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Sure. It’s either you or Johnny, and we have a whole day to go. And threats stopped bothering me long ago. My cheery disposition tends to bring them on. \You haven’t thought this through.\ If I were scum, and you weren’t, I would have already voted you out (or I’d be laying in wait to vote you out) because you’re a clear target with two votes already against you; and now you’d provide a rationale for my voting for you without exposing my scummy nature. If I’m a townie, and you’re scum, I”m going to be forced to vote you out to stay in the game. Either way, you lose unless you convince more people to vote me out. I’d really like to stick with my **snfaulkner** vote ‘cause I think he’s real scum (even though nobody else seems to agree) but if you hold fast on your vote I’ll have to switch and vote you to save myself. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/224 "2018-10-03T21:23:14Z")
So why did I make your list? You said “gut feeling” for stranger but I didn’t even rate that much. Is it because I’ve got a vote on you? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/225 "2018-10-03T21:25:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’d really like to stick with my **snfaulkner** vote ‘cause I think \*\*he’s real scum \*\*(even though nobody else seems to agree) but if you hold fast on your vote I’ll have to switch and vote you to save myself. Your implication here is that you don’t think Prof P is “real scum” (as opposed to snfaulkner). If you’re switching your vote to a suspected townie just to save yourself, that’s an anti-town move. All townies are vanilla. None of us are more valuable than any other. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/226 "2018-10-03T21:33:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > So why did I make your list? You said “gut feeling” for stranger but I didn’t even rate that much. Is it because I’ve got a vote on you? No, it’s a gut feeling as i said at the start. There are 2 Scum. Right now, you and Stranger are my guesses. But they are just guesses. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/227 "2018-10-03T21:34:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > It was utterly ludicrous and I will never again participate in a game of that magnitude. Try designing and modding it. It was difficult and because it ran here, no vote counter. If we ever do one again, we decided to do it where there is an automatic vote counter. It was hard, but a fun reunion and i want to point out: It was Idle’s idea originally. He got upset and kind of had a meltdown, but the whole idea was, unless I’m remembering wrongly, his idea. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/228 "2018-10-03T21:35:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Your implication here is that you don’t think Prof P is “real scum” (as opposed to snfaulkner). If you’re switching your vote to a suspected townie just to save yourself, that’s an anti-town move. All townies are vanilla. None of us are more valuable than any other. Which is the reason I’m giving him the chance to switch his vote. I want to be cooperative and all, but I’m not going to get jacked just because **Prof. Pepperwinkle** has a misapprehension. Besides, while I’m better than half certain about **snfaulkner** , **Prof. Pepperwinkle** is solidly in my Possibles bin, and if he doesn’t respond to logic it just pushes me further into thinking he’s actual scum. Either way, I think I have better guesses than he does from his list, and it’s not clear to me why a townie would publish a list this early except to create churn and throw suspicion off of himself. That does it; I’ve convinced myself: **Unvote snfaulkner** **Vote Prof. Pepperwinkle** Stranger ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/229 "2018-10-03T21:41:54Z")
I’m a bit busy today and stuck using my phone — would anyone have time/energy to do a vote summary? By which I mean showing vote activity for each player. Like, for me, it would read something like: snoe: vote Prof, unvote Prof, vote Biotop. If you want to do this and get fancy, link to the posts where votes were cast? Thanks, whoever you are (if you, indeed, are out there). Be back with a quick read on events since last night if I have one. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/230 "2018-10-03T21:42:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > It was utterly ludicrous and I will never again participate in a game of that magnitude. It was only ludicrous because we survived until the end. If the other players had had the decency to lynch or kill us earlier it would not have been so tough. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/231 "2018-10-03T21:54:59Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Oh yeah. I forgot I said that. I was a bit out of it earlier. > > The butterzone theory…renamed beerzone by hookerchemical because we all like beer better than butter… This is interesting; I don’t find it super-useful, but I’m curious how it will pan out. Like any Mafia strategy, it’s kind of useless once it’s out there as common knowledge — it can be gamed. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’m not going to twist it into scum motivation, but the scummier aspect would be that you jumped so quick on my quick statement, it discourages people from speaking. Why comment on anything from any game if you are going to go “meta” on us and vote us. Not fun. I have reacted this way to Biotop’s prodding too. In their defense, we all have different ways of playing, and god knows I’ve probably come off as an asshole to some myself. I found myself being hostile from the start, and reactions to that have made me more so > [@Biotop](#): > > Fear of getting votes is Scummy. I was going to disagree with this, but reading it literally it’s kind of true. My point of disagreement is that I don’t think it’s scummy to take umbrage at accusations of being scum. That seems perfectly natural and human to me. Even though this is a game. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/232 "2018-10-03T21:55:10Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > I’m guessing next game we won’t be able to use the “but we’re just ignorant newbies who don’t know what we’re doing” line any more. Your good to use that excuse for a good 4 or 5 games, or even until another brand noob joins in. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/233 "2018-10-03T21:55:43Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Try designing and modding it. It was difficult and because it ran here, no vote counter. If we ever do one again, we decided to do it where there is an automatic vote counter. > > It was hard, but a fun reunion and i want to point out: > > It was Idle’s idea originally. He got upset and kind of had a meltdown, but the whole idea was, unless I’m remembering wrongly, his idea. It was very fun, and also stressful being a newbie. It did get me reeled in to Mafia. I miss Idle. I wish he would at least play. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Which is the reason I’m giving him the chance to switch his vote. I want to be cooperative and all, but I’m not going to get jacked just because **Prof. Pepperwinkle** has a misapprehension. Besides, while I’m better than half certain about **snfaulkner** , **Prof. Pepperwinkle** is solidly in my Possibles bin, and if he doesn’t respond to logic it just pushes me further into thinking he’s actual scum. Either way, I think I have better guesses than he does from his list, and it’s not clear to me why a townie would publish a list this early except to create churn and throw suspicion off of himself. > > That does it; I’ve convinced myself: > > **Unvote snfaulkner** > > **Vote Prof. Pepperwinkle** > > Stranger We’re close to end of day, so this doesn’t strike me as “early”. You’ve also stated multiple times now that you believe that **snfaulkner** is scum. Could you remind me of your logic on that? While I wait for that, I have to say that I agree with **Johnny** that it’s odd that you’re voting for **Prof P** even though you think another player is more likely to be scum. You’re opting to kill him rather than scum because you think you’re a better player? It doesn’t compute. Always kill scum when you see them. **unvote** **Stranger On A Train** ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/234 "2018-10-03T21:56:05Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I’m a bit busy today and stuck using my phone — would anyone have time/energy to do a vote summary? By which I mean showing vote activity for each player. Like, for me, it would read something like: Here is what I have as of Post #229. Someone should double check because I did the vote counts manually. I tried to set up a script to do it automagically but I can’t tell between actual votes/unvotes and quotes. The formatting was painful; it is any violation of rules to put it in a Google doc, or is that considered offboard communication? ```auto Player Votes Post Count (adj) Who voted 1. snfaulkner 0 36 Stranger On A Train 2. Mahaloth 1 9 Biotop 3. Biotop 1 29 snoe 4. Prof. Pepperwinkle 3 28 Knowed Out, Johnny Bravo, Stranger On A Train 5. Sunny Daze 0 14 6. snoe 1 25 snfaulkner 7. Hi, Neighbor 0 5 8. Knowed Out 1 5 Sunny Daze 9. Johnny Bravo 0 16 10. Stranger On A Train 2 26 Mahaloth, Prof. Pepperwinkle ``` Stranger ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/235 "2018-10-03T21:56:16Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > My usual garbage pickup for Mario’s had a lot of people-sized trash bags. A guy with green hair that looked like grass blades told me it doesn’t exist and I don’t need to make this stop no more. Sorry, I missed the joke here. Do you mind ruining it? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/236 "2018-10-03T21:56:52Z")
That should read **vote Stranger On A Train** ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/237 "2018-10-03T21:58:38Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Hmm, 1,158 posts for a single day. That can’t be normal, right? Like, that must have been a pretty hardcore game. It was. But if you want crazy, go to MafiaUniverse. They can generate 1200 posts in 12 hours from only 20ish players. I can’t even follow along, let alone play. Too bonkers. Ask Archangel or Thing Fish how they do it. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/238 "2018-10-03T21:59:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Your implication here is that you don’t think Prof P is “real scum” (as opposed to snfaulkner). If you’re switching your vote to a suspected townie just to save yourself, that’s an anti-town move. All townies are vanilla. None of us are more valuable than any other. Yes, but the theory is that (assuming Stranger is town) he is 100% certain he is town and not 100% prof is town, therefore it is a town move to save oneself. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/239 "2018-10-03T22:04:04Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > From what I gather from this [quick guide](https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Quick_Guide_to_Mafia), they’ve got some serious statistical thinking going on… What makes Mafia interesting is that it’s played by humans, not AIs. It gets especially weird when it’s humans playing online — I’ve played “One Night Werewolf” with people face-to-face, and I found it much easier. Remember, any argument people trot out here has a 1/5 chance of being deoberately misleading. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/240 "2018-10-03T22:06:03Z")
Yes, but he has more certainty that you (snfaulkner) are scum than that Prof P is scum, so he is voting “more town” over “more scum”. I am confuzzled. His logic for voting Prof P (who he thinks is more than likely town) is that he (Stranger) is playing town better than Prof P. 1) He is voting town over scum. 2) He is privileging his survival over the win. I don’t like it. He’s either scum or not a team player. Either situation warrants the lynch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754.md?page=13)