# Mafia: Goontown \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [September 22, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754 "2018-09-22T22:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/481 "2018-10-09T21:15:38Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Just the fact that it was literally cast in the last minute of Day 1 and broke a tie that led to me being saved and Stranger being lynched. > > I mean, \*\*snoe \*\*kind of addressed it in post [#446](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21254935&postcount=446), but it didn’t really gain a lot of traction. > > And even after \*\*snoe \*\*broke it down like that, I am the one getting votes today? I voted \*\*Stranger \*\*, sure, but \*\*Biotop \*\*SAVED me and cast the vote that directly led to \*\*Stranger \*\*being lynched. Yet I am the one getting votes. That shit just doesn’t add up. > > Why would I garner votes today when \*\*Biotop \*\*made arguably the scummiest move to end Day 1? I signed up to play. I am disappointed my vote was wrong, but I do not shy away from the opportunity to make a difference. I look forward to such opportunities in the games I play. Being wrong is not Scummy. It is just being wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/482 "2018-10-09T21:35:58Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Why would I garner votes today when \*\*Biotop \*\*made arguably the scummiest move to end Day 1? Why indeed? Let’s say you’re town and Biotop is scum. What benefit would there be in casting such a late vote to lynch one townie over another? If you’re both scum, the play makes more sense even if it is pretty blatant shenanigans. What I find more strange is the way Biotop’s vote bounced off of you and then back on again. If we’re reading you and Biotop as scum, it reads as him communicating to you that it’s okay to throw votes at one another. Note that this would have been before Night 1, which I’m presuming is the first time scum would have been allowed to talk. Your first vote was on him, and by that point he had no votes on him. Likewise, Biotop only voted for you when you were completely safe. So, starting from a thesis of “Biotop and Hi Neighbor are scum,” it certainly reads that you two were throwing garbage votes on one another, but that Biotop ended up protecting you at the very end of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/483 "2018-10-09T21:45:57Z")
Hey everyone - I want to apologize for not being present much (at all) toDay. I am moving this week and life is very, very busy. I will try to catch up and weigh in. Apologies again. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/484 "2018-10-09T21:53:20Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > I’m sticking with my original accusation. That cheery disposition and red sweater don’t fool me. > > **Vote Hi, Neighbor** Not really sure why you have had it out for me in Day 1 and 2 now. That’s hardly a strong argument. But I think most players here will gloss over your posts because of your “noob” status. If you are town, scum will certainly keep you alive (echoing **snoe’s** sentiments from [#415](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21251286&postcount=415)). You are a noob. We get you are a noob. Scum will keep you alive because you will probably do more harm than good to town in the long run. I just really don’t know why I pinged you. Other people have said why they voted for me (which I addressed), but you should really flesh out your personal reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/485 "2018-10-09T21:55:07Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > The trouble is we do not have a database of \*\*HN \*\* games to see if his play is an aberration or if the BZ is his normal level of participation. You guys keep a database?! That is some serious mafia playing right there. > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Another scum trying to frame me. After we say “Bye, Neighbor,” don’t think I won’t forget this… You are an aggressive so-and-so aintcha. I looked at your posting history for Day 1 and I thought that you were a little over the top to be scum. Now I’m thinking that maybe it’s a fake out. **Vote Knowed Out** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/486 "2018-10-09T22:00:03Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > I can’t believe no one is really addressing this. > > Does no one find it fishy? > > Sure, \*\*Biotop \*\*is actively doing a lot of analysis, but I think at this point even HE must be a little surprised his last minute vote isn’t getting more attention. No one seems to be talking about it. Why? I don’t really Biotop would make that move as scum. > [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Pardon my ignorance, but what is the “beerzone”? It’s a mid-low-level amount of posts and is where scum hide out, according to the theory. I’m frequently in it, I think. I have no idea if it actually has turned out to be true. We need a beerzone spreadsheet to track if it works at all. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/487 "2018-10-10T05:03:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > What I find more strange is the way Biotop’s vote bounced off of you and then back on again. If we’re reading you and Biotop as scum, it reads as him communicating to you that it’s okay to throw votes at one another. Note that this would have been before Night 1, which I’m presuming is the first time scum would have been allowed to talk. Hey Chronos — did scum have any chance to talk privately before the start of Day 1? On mafiascum I remember there being a pregame chance to confab — I think. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/488 "2018-10-10T11:27:29Z")
Scum have no limitations on when they can talk, as I’ve never found that it makes a significant difference. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/489 "2018-10-10T12:27:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Scum have no limitations on when they can talk, as I’ve never found that it makes a significant difference. Thanks, and yowza. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/490 "2018-10-10T12:58:40Z")
Yep, I had to turn off email notifications for a while with all the paranoia spam. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/491 "2018-10-10T14:08:25Z")
Hrm, okay. I disagree that daytalking is insignificant, but that does change things. Daytalking makes me feel less confident in the Biotop/Neighbor theory. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/492 "2018-10-10T18:59:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Hrm, okay. I disagree that daytalking is insignificant, but that does change things. Daytalking makes me feel less confident in the Biotop/Neighbor theory. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I made a full vote count because it’s easier for me to find patterns this way. No promises about when I’ll get around to actually looking for those patterns. Monday is a dirty way to start the week. Also no promises as to accuracy. It’s a lot of work making one of these. > > **DAY 1 VOTE COUNT** > > Stranger on a Train (5): Mahaloth [96], [del]Prof. P [218, -253][/del], [del]Sunny Daze [233, -298][/del], snfaulker [283], Johnny Bravo [344] Hi, Neighbor [366], Biotop [368] > Hi, Neighbor! (3): [del]Biotop [89, -120],[/del], [del]Biotop [304, -368][/del], Knowed Out [306], Prof. P [337], [del]Johnny Bravo [338, -344][/del], snoe [355] > snfaulkner (2): [del]Stranger on a Train [55, -228][/del], [del]snoe [311, -355][/del], Sunny Daze [323] > snoe (0): [del]snfaulker [52, -283][/del], [del]Prof P. [91, -126][/del] > Prof. Pepperwinkle (0): [del]snoe [54, -141],[/del] [del]Knowed Out [121, -306][/del], [del]Johnny Bravo [147, -338][/del] [del]Stranger on a Train [228, -259][/del] > Biotop (0): [del]Johnny Bravo [93, -147][/del], [del]snoe [141, -244][/del], [del]Hi Neighbor [307, -332][/del] > Knowed Out (0): [del]Sunny Daze [95, -233][/del] > Mahaloth (0): [del]Prof. P [159, -201][/del], [del]Biotop [180, -303][/del], [del]Stranger on a Train [259, -313][/del] > Sunny Daze (0): [del]snoe [244, -311][/del], [del]Hi Neighbor [332, -366][/del] > Johnny Bravo (0): [del]Prof. P [253, -337][/del] 1. Daytalking isn’t insignificant, IMHO. I’d be curious to hear Chronos’s arguments for why it didn’t matter, and why it wasn’t made explicit at the start of the game. (If I missed Chronos saying so, let me know, my bad.) But at this point it’s academic. **Maybe we could discuss it during the night and focus on lynching well for now?** 2. I don’t know what Knowed Out is playing at. If they’re town, I agree with whoever said that they’re not getting night-killed, because obnoxious shit-stirrers aren’t going to be helpful as our numbers shrink, and scum will keep them alive. I’m going to stick with my vote on Knowed for now. But I am open to other arguments. I don’t think Knowed will be a big loss for town if they are town. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/493 "2018-10-10T19:07:37Z")
Also – I am getting on a plane for Japan at 3:45 ET tomorrow. (12:45 my time.) I will have time to do some reading and voting while I’m at the airport, but I’m not going to do any 3:59 vote changes (assuming my flight’s on time). Johnny, I don’t think the existence of day-talk precludes a Biotop/Neighbor team altogether. Given that we’re playing online, communication might be slow between scum. And I get the sense, though neither’s a brand-noob, that Neighbor lacks confidence in their game skills but Biotop doesn’t. (So a master-student relationship.) I think reading their votes with that frame in mind jibes with that theory, at least somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/494 "2018-10-10T19:12:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > During the Night, the Mafia members will confer at a secret location listed in their PM, and decide on someone to murder. In the unlikely event of a disagreement, Vinnie’s decision will hold sway over Books’. At the end of the Night, that person will die, and their role revealed. > > Aside from this game thread and the secret Scum location, all other communications between players about the game are forbidden. Don’t PM each other, don’t read the spectators’ thread, don’t post images on hosting sites, etc. Again, I don’t think it’s worth spending a lot of time and energy debating this point, but I don’t think that leaving the daytalk thing out was kosher. As far as I can see in Chronos’s posts, it wasn’t made explicit. (Of course, nobody asked, either, which we should have since it wasn’t mentioned.) EDIT: by “not kosher” I mean a big imbalance. Keeping shtum is fine, but really the Mod should be open about the game rules/mechanics, even if they don’t think that information will matter. And look at me, spending time talking about this. Let’s re-evaluate based on it and focus on other things until EOD. Do as I say, not as I do. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/495 "2018-10-10T21:25:21Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Just the fact that it was literally cast in the last minute of Day 1 and broke a tie that led to me being saved and Stranger being lynched. > > I mean, \*\*snoe \*\*kind of addressed it in post [#446](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21254935&postcount=446), but it didn’t really gain a lot of traction. > > And even after \*\*snoe \*\*broke it down like that, I am the one getting votes today? I voted \*\*Stranger \*\*, sure, but \*\*Biotop \*\*SAVED me and cast the vote that directly led to \*\*Stranger \*\*being lynched. Yet I am the one getting votes. That shit just doesn’t add up. > > Why would I garner votes today when \*\*Biotop \*\*made arguably the scummiest move to end Day 1? I would like to hear what others think about Neighbor’s plea here. My take so far: an innocent person who just missed a lynching might well point the finger at the person who saved them – if the innocent person were the top lynch candidate next day. It’s not impossible. A scummy person in the same situation would be scrambling to find a way out from under the gun, and might make this argument. It’s a weak argument, because if Biotop is scum they know who’s town, and there’s little reason to save Neighbor (if they’re town). Okay, typing this out, I think that Biotop’s 11th hour, 59th minute vote might have been an excellent play for day 2. F— it, I’m going to unvote Knowed Out (who’s probably there til endgame anyway) and vote Biotop. This makes more sense to me than the Neighbor/Biotop partnership. I seriously have problems with someone who switches the lynch with a minute to go. I took a quick look at Biotop’s activity D2 just now. It fits with this theory. If they’re an experienced player, a slick move like this fits. See what you think. EDIT: I don’t think I was totally clear. I think Biotop’s last minute vote shift might have been from one townie to another, setting up the runner-up for D2 lynch. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/496 "2018-10-10T21:43:29Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I would like to hear what others think about Neighbor’s plea here. > > My take so far: an innocent person who just missed a lynching might well point the finger at the person who saved them – if the innocent person were the top lynch candidate next day. It’s not impossible. > > A scummy person in the same situation would be scrambling to find a way out from under the gun, and might make this argument. It’s a weak argument, because if Biotop is scum they know who’s town, and there’s little reason to save Neighbor (if they’re town). > Okay, typing this out, I think that Biotop’s 11th hour, 59th minute vote might have been an excellent play for day 2. > F— it, I’m going to > > unvote Knowed Out (who’s probably there til endgame anyway) > and vote Biotop. > This makes more sense to me than the Neighbor/Biotop partnership. I seriously have problems with someone who switches the lynch with a minute to go. > > I took a quick look at Biotop’s activity D2 just now. It fits with this theory. If they’re an experienced player, a slick move like this fits. See what you think. > EDIT: I don’t think I was totally clear. I think Biotop’s last minute vote shift might have been from one townie to another, setting up the runner-up for D2 lynch. Interesting argument. Usually I would say townies get all worked up about scum masterplans and gears within gears and whatnot when ususally scums planning doesn’t get much beyond “hey, let’s kill this guy” “why” “why not?”. But with Biotop, he, as scum, is _totally_ the type to be mad crazy scheming. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/497 "2018-10-10T21:54:40Z")
There is less than one real-life day left in Day 2. There are two scum still live. I feel there are two schools of thought now going on - Either they are doing their best to mis-direct town by posting elaborate theories, or they are just sitting back and watching things unfold, because town is doing that for them, and town has made a false positive. If they are sitting back, that means there was a talkative town who came to a false conclusion. They would not argue that. Quite the opposite, actually. They would take the argument and run with it. If a town actually got on the scent of a scum, only then would scum make their voices heard and make a counter-argument. That’s kind of how I’m breaking things down at this point. Makes sense to me, at least. With that said… I’m still sticking with my vote for **Mahaloth**. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/498 "2018-10-10T22:10:10Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Either they are doing their best to mis-direct town by posting elaborate theories, or they are just sitting back and watching things unfold, because town is doing that for them, and town has made a false positive. I dunno, I kind of think scum just play the same as Town for the most part. Maybe a bit more reserved, but I have actually found in games where I am scum, I almost forget I am during the Day sometimes. I don’t fully forget, but I post just about as freely and loosely as if I am town. There are exceptions to that, though. I find when I do get lynched as scum that it is 80%+ just bad luck and I would have been lynched as Town in the same game. 20% or less, I actually get caught being “scummy” or something. Late game, I’m more likely to be legit caught as scum if I am one. It kind of becomes clearer at that point sometimes. Is this pretty much everyone’s experience? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/499 "2018-10-10T22:40:12Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I dunno, I kind of think scum just play the same as Town for the most part. Maybe a bit more reserved, but I have actually found in games where I am scum, I almost forget I am during the Day sometimes. I don’t fully forget, but I post just about as freely and loosely as if I am town. There are exceptions to that, though. > > I find when I do get lynched as scum that it is 80%+ just bad luck and I would have been lynched as Town in the same game. 20% or less, I actually get caught being “scummy” or something. > > Late game, I’m more likely to be legit caught as scum if I am one. It kind of becomes clearer at that point sometimes. > > Is this pretty much everyone’s experience? A bit more reserved, yes. But I find I get lynched for just being me, scum OR town. I can’t really remember a specific time where I was caught in a lie and lynched. Though I’m sure it has happened. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/500 "2018-10-10T22:43:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I dunno, I kind of think scum just play the same as Town for the most part. Maybe a bit more reserved, but I have actually found in games where I am scum, I almost forget I am during the Day sometimes. I don’t fully forget, but I post just about as freely and loosely as if I am town. There are exceptions to that, though. > > (Snip) > Is this pretty much everyone’s experience? No, not mine, but I’ve only played on mafiascum — which, back then, was way more aggressive than this game. (I remember, playing as town, being reduced to tears when a fellow townie built a case against me, and forced me to claim my Mason role.) Whereas here? I’m not sure what’s going on. Neighbor, Mahaloth: what do you think about my case against Biotop? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754.md?page=26)