# Mafia: Goontown \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [September 22, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754 "2018-09-22T22:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/561 "2018-10-11T15:05:52Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Again, padding is not Scummy. If you find yourself in a tie, you want to have the most posts regardless of your side. Padding = posting for the sake of posting. Posting in itself isn’t bad, per se. But if you are just posting to get your count up, it doesn’t really do much in terms of helping out your side. Here is when post padding can look scummy: Say someone had no votes or perhaps very few Day 1. Also, they were mostly silent and didn’t post much. Now Day 2 comes along and they have some votes. They might even have the most votes. All of a sudden their post count shoots up. I could see that as being a bit scummy. Now all of a sudden post count matters for them. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/562 "2018-10-11T15:20:11Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Padding = posting for the sake of posting. Posting in itself isn’t bad, per se. But if you are just posting to get your count up, it doesn’t really do much in terms of helping out your side. > > Here is when post padding can look scummy: > > Say someone had no votes or perhaps very few Day 1. Also, they were mostly silent and didn’t post much. > > Now Day 2 comes along and they have some votes. They might even have the most votes. All of a sudden their post count shoots up. I could see that as being a bit scummy. Now all of a sudden post count matters for them. We will have to disagree on this, and I see it as a flaw in this type of rule. Let’s say you are Town and not posting much. You get votes and find yourself in a possible tie situation. Post count suddenly DOES matter to you. Should you just resign yourself to losing a tie and creating a mislynch? What about if you really consider the other candidate Scum? Sure everyone should post a lot. But they don’t. That’s why “lynch the lurker” does not work very well. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/563 "2018-10-11T15:31:42Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > We will have to disagree on this, and I see it as a flaw in this type of rule. > > Let’s say you are Town and not posting much. You get votes and find yourself in a possible tie situation. Post count suddenly DOES matter to you. Should you just resign yourself to losing a tie and creating a mislynch? What about if you really consider the other candidate Scum? > > Sure everyone should post a lot. But they don’t. That’s why “lynch the lurker” does not work very well. Yeah, I can agree with you that it’s a bit of a flaw. At the end of Day 1, I was in a tie with **Stranger** , but he had me beat in post count. I could have spammed like 30+ posts or something to break the tie, and I guess wouldn’t have broken the rules, but it would have looked ridiculous. And he could have just spammed right back. I don’t really think that’s how it should be played out, but desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose. Gonna try to do a quick vote/post tally before lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/564 "2018-10-11T15:40:24Z")
Here is why padding is bad practice for both town and scum: A townie should have lots of posts because they are posting lots of good content which can later be analyzed for clues. Remember that a townie has nothing to fear from making good faith arguments, even if they’re bad. If all townies are only writing substantive posts, then scum will also have to write substantive posts. The problem is that scum are always making bad faith arguments, so the more they post the worse it is for them. If town declares that padding is good (or neutral) because everyone should want a high post count, they are creating camouflage for scum. And that’s bad. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/565 "2018-10-11T15:49:24Z")
Post count for JUST DAY 2. These don’t include Night 1 posts. Biotop: 43 snfaulkner: 29 snoe: 21 Mahaloth: 16 Hi, Neighbor!: 11 Johnny Bravo: 9 Knowed Out: 6 Sunny Daze: 5 Voting remains: > [@Chronos](#): > > Mahaloth: 2 (Biotop 421, Hi, Neighbor 432) > snfaulkner: 0 ([del]snoe 449-451[/del]) > Knowed Out: 0 ([del]snoe 451-495[/del], [del]Sunny Daze 485-504[/del]) > Hi, Neighbor: 2 (Mahaloth 452, [del]snfaulkner 460-529[/del], Knowed Out 474) > Biotop: 4 (snoe 495, Johnny Bravo 503, Sunny Daze 504, snfaulkner 529) ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/566 "2018-10-11T16:08:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Here is why padding is bad practice for both town and scum: > > A townie should have lots of posts because they are posting lots of good content which can later be analyzed for clues. Remember that a townie has nothing to fear from making good faith arguments, even if they’re bad. > > If all townies are only writing substantive posts, then scum will also have to write substantive posts. The problem is that scum are always making bad faith arguments, so the more they post the worse it is for them. > > If town declares that padding is good (or neutral) because everyone should want a high post count, they are creating camouflage for scum. And that’s bad. Yes. But the rule encourages it. The rule also encourages Scum to kill the highest post count player who is not Scum. So if Town were to post only quality substantive posts and Scum were forced to compete in that way, we have then the normal way Mafia should be played anyway. A special rule that encourages gaming the system is not helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/567 "2018-10-11T17:20:50Z")
The rule encourages us to game the system, but if town refuses to pad then padding becomes a strong scum tell. Therefore I will state that I consider padding a scum tell and will refuse to do it myself. I see no other good solution. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/568 "2018-10-11T17:55:29Z")
Oh, and snfaulkner is correct: my game was on an island, not on a planet. I mean, most islands are on planets. But you get what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/569 "2018-10-11T18:08:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Oh, and snfaulkner is correct: my game was on an island, not on a planet. > > I mean, most islands are on planets. But you get what I mean. I played that whole game thinking the ship was a spaceship I am pretty sure. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/570 "2018-10-11T18:22:57Z")
Well, skimming **is** a scum tell. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/571 "2018-10-11T18:40:19Z")
I am disappointed **Sunny Daze** did not come back. Suspect list in this order (from most to least). If I have not commented on the players it is based on gut reads with regards to their overall tone. I would have suspected those who know me to have taken my thoughts more seriously. 1. Mahaloth 2. SNF 3. Sunny Daze 4. Johnny Bravo 5. Snoe 6. Knowed Out 7. Hi Neighbor! ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/572 "2018-10-11T18:47:34Z")
I am back. I find it interesting that your list is so different from everyone else’s, **Biotop**. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/573 "2018-10-11T18:53:06Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I am back. I find it interesting that your list is so different from everyone else’s, **Biotop**. I find it interesting too. I hope someone does something with the list. I was on vacation and still managed to play and give it my best shot. I played and tried. Those who remain owe it to me to finally consider my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/574 "2018-10-11T18:59:43Z")
Biotop, if you flip town I promise to look very closely at Mahaloth tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/575 "2018-10-11T19:09:58Z")
Just as a last minute plea here to reconsider your votes on \*\*Biotop \*\*- think about what we’d be losing if he’s lynched. I think he really stepped up today. I know I talked about post padding and how I it doesn’t really help much… I wouldn’t consider **Biotop** ’s posts today as padding. He’s been very active and has answered and acknowledged everyone in Day 2. It really might be a quiet Day 3 if he’s lynched. And I firmly agree with **Johnny Bravo** ’s sentiments: > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Here is why padding is bad practice for both town and scum: > > A townie should have lots of posts because they are posting lots of good content which can later be analyzed for clues. Remember that a townie has nothing to fear from making good faith arguments, even if they’re bad. > > If all townies are only writing substantive posts, then scum will also have to write substantive posts. The problem is that scum are always making bad faith arguments, so the more they post the worse it is for them. > > If town declares that padding is good (or neutral) because everyone should want a high post count, they are creating camouflage for scum. And that’s bad. Take \*\*Biotop \*\*out of the equation, and what do we have? Not a whole lot, I’m afraid. Not only is he chiming in, but he’s also doing a good job involving everyone else. Although if the vote goes through and \*\*Biotop \*\*ends up being scum, it’s admittedly going to look very bad for me. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/576 "2018-10-11T19:10:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Biotop, if you flip town I promise to look very closely at Mahaloth tomorrow. Why are you and **SNF** both so sure you will be around toMorrow? And after you look at **Mahaloth** toMorrow (assuming you live), be prepared to answer why you did not look at it before toMorrow. And ask **Sunny Daze** the same. And also ask why Scum kill whomever they kill toNight. And why they didn’t kill someone else. I’m done now. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/577 "2018-10-11T19:14:37Z")
I’ll be on a flight without WiFi. Hope the EOD and flip go well. I am of course second-guessing but I still think it’s our best choice. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/578 "2018-10-11T19:17:28Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Why are you and **SNF** both so sure you will be around toMorrow? I find it tiresome to always append forward-looking posts with “if I survive the night.” Like a teenager in a movie about racing his dad’s car down Dead Man’s Bluff in the middle of the night to impress his girlfriend, I’m pretty sure I’m going to live forever. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/579 "2018-10-11T19:55:58Z")
No flurry of activity to end the day like last time? It seems the scum are content with the day’s result. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754/580 "2018-10-11T20:05:05Z")
If \*\*Biotop \*\*ends up being town, here is who voted for him: Biotop: 4 (snoe 495, Johnny Bravo 503, Sunny Daze 504, snfaulkner 529) **Johnny Bravo** got things going (#[503](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21259839&postcount=503)). **Sunny Daze** immediately followed (#[504](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21260043&postcount=504)). \*\*snfaulkner \*\*with the insurance vote (#[530](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21260189&postcount=530)). That all happened recently and in rapid succession. So yeah, just make a mental note of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-goontown-game-over/821754.md?page=30)