# Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Incorrigible

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676>\
**Category:** The Game Room\
**Created:** [March 14, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676 "2011-03-14T17:51:25Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 13

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/241 "2011-03-22T16:51:50Z")

</div>

I know that the partial votes are hard to keep track of, but I think they encourage meaningful discussion. I am having a hard time coming up with 4 votes, but think it’s better to get the votes I do have on the table now.

**Vote: Hal Briston** I do hope he returns to make some more reasoned votes.  
\*\*Vote: Idle Thoughts \*\*for insisting that everyone make all 4 votes at once

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/242 "2011-03-22T16:56:59Z")

</div>

NETA Ending the day with partial votes WILL be scummy in my opinion. It would give scum the ability to make town-like and town-helping votes without having them count.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/243 "2011-03-22T16:57:59Z")

</div>

It’s Day 1. Everyone is scrabbling to vote for people. I’m having a hard time finding people to vote for reeks of I’m too scared to put my opinions out on the line. There are only 4 people who should be legitimately afeared of that.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/244 "2011-03-22T17:24:32Z")

</div>

> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#):
>
> All right…
> 
> **Vote Red Skeezix** for the same reason. What good does one vote do? It’s not counted.

Did you even look at the vote count? It was counted, it just doesn’t contribute to the lynch count until I have four in place. Also read the rules, you don’t have to make all four votes in the same post. geez. I’m just a little confused about how that would be scummy either way.

**vote Idle Thoughts**

Next up is Inner Stickler:

> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> And I feel like Normal Phase is sounding out the waters and gently poking at people to see what reactions she can get.

Who is voting for behavior which seems to be pro-town to me. Nudging people, making them back up their statements, etc. I can’t see how encouraging discussion (especially about players as opposed to general strategy) is not pro-town behavior, I understand that people are trying to strech to meet the required votes, but voting for pro-town behavior strikes a scummy chord.

**vote Inner Stickler**

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/245 "2011-03-22T17:28:43Z")

</div>

> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> It’s Day 1. Everyone is scrabbling to vote for people. I’m having a hard time finding people to vote for reeks of I’m too scared to put my opinions out on the line. There are only 4 people who should be legitimately afeared of that.

and those 4 people would be who exactly?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/246 "2011-03-22T17:39:08Z")

</div>

> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> Votes don’t count until all four have been placed. That doesn’t mean all four votes must be placed at once. Peeker’s votes will count when he votes for a fourth player and Red’s when he votes for 3 more people . So while I encourage them to bring their total to 4, I’m not understanding why people are so troubled by their half-votes.

Peeker already voted for a fourth player. Twice. One not even in the game and another, made-up name. So what I was left wondering is why he didn’t want to cast the fourth vote, for some reason (he has since cast it now, though).

> [@TexCat](#):
>
> \*\*Vote: Idle Thoughts \*\*for insisting that everyone make all 4 votes at once

And here I thought that’s what we were supposed/had to do to make them count. My mistake then.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/247 "2011-03-22T17:41:33Z")

</div>

> [@peekercpa](#):
>
> and those 4 people would be who exactly?

That is left as an exercise to the reader.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/248 "2011-03-22T17:52:18Z")

</div>

> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> That is left as an exercise to the reader.

ya wanna give me a hint?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/249 "2011-03-22T17:58:06Z")

</div>

> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Originally Posted by TexCat  
> > \*\*Vote: Idle Thoughts \*\*for insisting that everyone make all 4 votes at once
> 
> And here I thought that’s what we were supposed/had to do to make them count. My mistake then.

So did you read the rules, Idle? Cause it sure looks like you didn’t, in spite, of voting peeker and skeez for that exact reason, not reading the rules.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/250 "2011-03-22T18:08:29Z")

</div>

I did. I was still under the impression that it was wanted to make all four votes at once. Even in the post right after RS makes his one-off vote, someone asks him why he’s just casting one vote…so I wasn’t totally in the wrong. Same with the first two or three players who cast votes at all (Hal, Nphase, peeker)…they all voted for four people at once.  
Here I thought it’d be frowned upon to cast just one vote at a time. Don’t understand how that’s so hard to believe.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/251 "2011-03-22T18:10:34Z")

</div>

Anyway, regardless of it, I’m still happy with my four votes. Mostly because we’re forced to vote for four people if we want any votes to count. None of the reasoning I have for each of them is strong, I admit. They’re all weak reasonings…but again, having to pick four people to make any one vote count is the way it is.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/252 "2011-03-22T18:42:47Z")

</div>

> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#):
>
> Anyway, regardless of it, I’m still happy with my four votes… None of the reasoning I have for each of them is strong, I admit. They’re all weak reasonings…

\<snipped\>

i think i’ll give this the understatement of the year award since one of the votes is because you didn’t understand the rules.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/253 "2011-03-22T18:50:29Z")

</div>

Day One Vote Count

All Votes by Voting Player  
**Hal Briston** =\> fluiddruid (74), TexCat (74), peekercpa (74), Mahaloth (74).  
**fluiddruid** =\> no votes.  
**TexCat** =\> Hal Briston (241), Idle Thoughts (241).  
**peekercpa** =\> [del]Normal Phase (65-126)[/del], [del]Stanislaus (65-126)[/del], [del]fubbleskag (65-126)[/del], Normal Phase (126), Hal Briston (126), Drain Bead (126), Idle Thoughts (237).  
**Mahaloth** =\> no votes.  
**Inner Stickler** =\> Hal Briston (223), Crackrat (223), Idle Thoughts (223), Normal Phase (223).  
**Red Skeezix** =\> Hal Briston (173), Idle Thoughts (244), Inner Stickler (244).  
**glowacks** =\> no votes.  
**Natlaw** =\> no votes.  
**Normal Phase** =\> [del]NAF1138 (72-92)[/del], [del]Stanislaus (72-92)[/del], [del]peekercpa (72-92)[/del], [del]Drain Bead (72-92)[/del].  
**fubbleskag** =\> no votes.  
**Crackrat** =\> no votes.  
**Stanislaus** =\> no votes.  
**Drain Bead** =\> no votes.  
**Idle Thoughts** =\> peekercpa (235), Red Skeezix (235), Inner Stickler (235), Natlaw (235).  
**NAF1138** =\> no votes.

Net Votes  
**peekercpa** (2) \<= Hal Briston, Idle Thoughts.  
**Hal Briston** (2) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler.  
**Normal Phase** (2) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler.  
**Idle Thoughts** (2) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler.  
**fluiddruid** (1) \<= Hal Briston.  
**TexCat** (1) \<= Hal Briston.  
**Mahaloth** (1) \<= Hal Briston.  
**Drain Bead** (1) \<= peekercpa.  
**Crackrat** (1) \<= Inner Stickler.  
**Inner Stickler** (1) \<= Idle Thoughts.  
**Natlaw** (1) \<= Idle Thoughts.  
**Red Skeezix** (1) \<= Idle Thoughts.

With 16 players eligible to vote, 8 votes are needed to space. With these votes, no one will be spaced.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/254 "2011-03-22T19:25:04Z")

</div>

Thinking about lurkers: there is no reason to lynch them in this game. We just put them in the brig.

We can even investigate them and they can’t be killed at Night.

Which brings me to:

> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> Interesting. Last time a scum cookies was the cracker. I wonder if this means there’s another mutinous cracker. I wouldn’t be averse to the doctor taking a look at Naf. I don’t really have ant reason for it other than the doctor should look at someone Today and Naf is just as good a target as anyone else. If we get a town result then he’s either a ringleader or what he says he is and I’ve been burned by Naf before.

I don’t like this reasoning, mainly because I think there are better targets

1. players likely to be doctor
2. players likely to be head of engineering
3. brigged lurkers (don’t see a reason to investigate brigged possible-scum because that should only happen if we got a better scum candidate up for lynch and the brigged one would be up for review the next Day)
4. not players who are about to be lynched (or have a big chance to be lynched if the vote swings)  
and I don’t see why his claim or his experience matter. He can be both Cracker as scum or town. And for experience that might get him killed early, especially since he already claimed cracker and would be investigated. In other words: I would rather spread out the information.

It’s, in my opinion, a bad tactic proposal but since I need four votes and the “I wonder if this” phrasing seems off to me (reads as “Shouldn’t we be suspicious of NAF here with his cracker claim?” instead of simply stating the fact “cracker can be scum or town”).

**Vote Inner Stickler**

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/255 "2011-03-22T19:35:12Z")

</div>

> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#):
>
> All right…  
> **Vote Peekercpa** for not (and still not) reading the directions apparently, and voting for only three players (not to mention for apparently not even reading who is in the game and trying to vote for **Story** )  
> **Vote Red Skeezix** for the same reason. What good does one vote do? It’s not counted.  
> **Vote Inner Stickler** for trying for the “lynch the lurker” type vote (which tend to be “safe” votes since the people haven’t been around to defend themselves).  
> **Vote Natlaw** for thinking putting the word “Loyal” in underline is supposed to tip us off that he’s pro-Town, when it’s shown in one of the beginning posts that it will be underlined in the PM.

What you vote me for that but not NAF who makes a full claim (with both an underlined Loyal _and_ Cracker!)?

**Vote Idle Thoughts**

I think **Inner Sticker** more suspicious than Idle at this point for my previous reason and also his vote for NPhase for poking and then using three poke votes himself (I only reread those now so didn’t mention these in my last post).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/256 "2011-03-22T19:46:27Z")

</div>

> [@peekercpa](#):
>
> > [@fubbleskag](#):
> >
> > I’m still not even sure I see the advantage that the engineer brings, to be honest.
> 
> it’s a combo wacher tracker.

To clarify the Head of Engineering can see the following actions:  
-scum doing scum kill (bingo! he found scum)  
-commissar doing a kill (looks redundant since he’ll be in the brig the Next Day but it’ll still give info on who the commissar killed and who scum killed)  
-a hacker swapping ranks (confirms power but not alignment)  
-a cracker freeing someone (confirms power but not alignment)  
by either targeting the actor or one of the actors targets. He only gets the names but the actions should be obvious from the Dawn result (players dead, escaped from the brig or changed rank).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/257 "2011-03-22T20:19:01Z")

</div>

> [@peekercpa](#):
>
> \<snipped\>
> 
> i think i’ll give this the understatement of the year award since one of the votes is because you didn’t understand the rules.

Which one? Enlighten me? If you’re meaning RS’s vote, I’m still happy with it because I got nothing else on anyone right now..so it’s as good of a vote as any\* and I need four of them to count.

\*Any vote I were to place on anyone else would just be random votes, so seems to me just keeping it like it is changes nothing.

> [@Natlaw](#):
>
> What you vote me for that but not NAF who makes a full claim (with both an underlined Loyal _and_ Cracker!)?

You were first, for one. For two, I can’t rightly vote for anyone just because they made a full claim, speaking as someone who has made many full claims on Day One.

And here’s another to add to my Day One claims (since I now have three votes on me):

> [@](#):
>
> **Idle Thoughts** - Loyal Hacker
> 
> You are a Loyal crew member. You win when all Mutinous crew members are dead.
> 
> You are a Hacker. One time only, you may change during the Night the rank number of any one crew member, including yourself, to any number of your choice. The new rank ordering will take effect and be revealed to all at the beginning of the Day, including new officers, if any.

I asked a few clarification questions of Pleonast afterwards:

> [@](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > So, does this still happen if I die during that same Night (the Night that I were to choose a new ranking for someone)?
> 
> Yes, kills do not block powers used at the same time.

and

> [@](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Two final questions (for now)
> > 
> > 1. What if I use the power for myself and then I die that same Night, then? Is the position just empty at Day or does the same person who had it before still have it?
> > 2. If I’m in the brig, I assume I can’t use my power, can I?
> 
> 1. Dead players have no rank. Players automatically go up in rank to fill empty slots. So, you’d go to the new rank, die, lose the rank, and the previous player would slide up to replace you.
> 
> 2. No, no powers can be used while in the Brig. But you’re safe from Night kills. You can use your power on someone else in the Brig, though.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/258 "2011-03-22T20:19:20Z")

</div>

First vote, not really the most solidly felt, but the easiest:

**vote: Drain Bead**

> [@Drain\_Bead](#):
>
> One of the hardest parts of this game is going to be coming up with 4 people to vote for on Day One. At least we won’t have roleclaim scrambles to contend with as well.

(ORLY? 😛 )

> [@Drain\_Bead](#):
>
> I am a bit lower on time than I was expecting to be this weekend. I’m reading but don’t have time to really respond. I’ll be back on Monday.

Those are her only posts since confirming PM receipt. By itself the lack of posts probably wouldn’t put her on my list, but the statement of “I’m reading”, promise to respond at some later date, then lack of follow through all fit behavior I’ve seen from scum many times. Good enough for day one, and I hope she turns up so I can suspect her properly in the future (in-joke).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/259 "2011-03-22T20:33:45Z")

</div>

Okay, so while partial votes do show up in the vote count they do not show up in the net vote count.

**Pleonast, would you consider to use the following format for net votes?** It’s more work though 😉

> [@](#):
>
> Net Votes  
> **Idle Thoughts** 2 (5) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler, (TexCat, Red Skeezix, Natlaw).  
> **Hal Briston** 2 (4) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler, (TexCat, Red Skeezix).  
> **peekercpa** 2 \<= Hal Briston, Idle Thoughts.  
> **Normal Phase** 2 \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler.  
> **Inner Stickler** 1 (3) \<= Idle Thoughts, (Red Skeezix, Natlaw).  
> **Drain Bead** 1 (2) \<= peekercpa, (Normal Phase).  
> **fluiddruid** 1 \<= Hal Briston.  
> **TexCat** 1 \<= Hal Briston.  
> **Mahaloth** 1 \<= Hal Briston.  
> **Crackrat** 1 \<= Inner Stickler.  
> **Natlaw** 1 \<= Idle Thoughts.  
> **Red Skeezix** 1 \<= Idle Thoughts.

With 16 players eligible to vote, 8 votes are needed to space. With these votes, no one will be spaced.

It makes it easier to see what the vote count would be if all votes are valid (although the extra votes would change it of course). If not it might be better to always make four votes at the same time (especially near the end of the Day) so the effect can be seen in the vote counts.

On preview, **Idle** “since I now have three votes on me”. No, it’s two valid and three partial ones.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/260 "2011-03-22T20:41:47Z")

</div>

Idle and NAF have both claimed Loyal, with Hacker and Cracker roles respectively, which should make them scum targets if they’re telling the truth. Should either of them be a priority for us to brig/confirm?

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676.md?page=12)

[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676.md?page=14)