# Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Incorrigible **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676 "2011-03-14T17:51:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/501 "2011-03-30T03:32:08Z")
Also, fluiddruid, would you consider demoting Captain Hal for dereliction of duty? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/502 "2011-03-30T11:08:11Z")
what **tex** said. i’d rather it be a mason but one of the four makes about as good a sense as any preferably one with no vote. matter of fact **fluid** , since you at least popped in once toDay i wouldn’t even hold it against you if you demoted **hal** , promoted yourself and then immediately brigged one of them. of course, if you and or any of the other part of that gang is scum town is fucking themselves. but at this point i don’t see any real attractive options. wouldn’t that be an anti game gambit. manipulate promotions and briggings by not participating as scum. additionally, based on the durn vote threshhold and current participation level town durn near has to be unanimous in their lynch target. jeebus creebus. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/503 "2011-03-30T11:51:00Z")
Currently we have two confirmed Mates, one Doc-confirmed Town-or-Ring-Leader, one resigning claimed Town Cracker. The priority has to be to protect the Mates. At best we can put one in toNight, and expect the Engineer to watch the second. That leaves Idle and NAF outside - I think permanently because the Captain will have to daily cancel the arrest warrant for last Night’s Mate (so he can vote, and to keep Town numbers up), followed by an arrest warrant for the next Night. There doesn’t seem to be room for a new warrant there. Votes: **vote Mahaloth** For the reasoning given [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13606893&postcount=334) plus his relatively early decision to investigate Idle, which made it harder for people to vote for him. \*\*vote TexCat, \*\* partly for the lack of engagement that worried me yesterDay, but mostly for this post: > [@TexCat](#): > > I hope you are not referring to my vote as foolish. 🙂 I was one of the original votes on you. I thought you were suspicious before the claim, and the claim really did nothing to quell my suspicions, and so I left my vote on you. Day 2, after you’ve been investigated, of course, is a different story. This refers to Idle’s summation of the case against him. I don’t like this because it’s unneccessarily defensive: Idle didn’t call out TexCat particularly, and had in fact noted that some votes came before his claim. But TexCat still feels the need to step in and explain that Idle can’t possibly be referring to him. This smacks of the defensiveness that you often see from Scum - a concern that anyone might be thinking ill of them in any way. If this was one of a bunch of posts I wouldn’t be suspicious, but as TexCat has been fairly quiet I’m suspicious that clearing his name of a non-existant accusation was a high priority post to make. **vote fluiddruid** I don’t care if she did acknowledge that she was lynching a lurker (over, essentially, another lurker). It was still a very anti-town thing to do. **Vote Crackrat** [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13624523&postcount=473), he puts a vote on fubbleskag for yesterDay’s behaviour. Yesterday, however, he voted for Drain Bead and Hal having acknowledged that they were bad votes. In voting fubbleskag toDay, he was fourth vote - following a trend. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/504 "2011-03-30T12:32:56Z")
Stanislaus – > [@](#): > > vote Mahaloth > > For the reasoning given here plus his relatively early decision to investigate Idle, which made it harder for people to vote for him. What’s the motivation you’re seeing here? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/505 "2011-03-30T12:45:23Z")
glowacks – > [@](#): > > fluiddruid stops in just long enough to ask about mod-killing someone who has said they’re no longer going to be putting in any effort, but doesn’t say anything else. Hasn’t said anything else for quite a while despite garnering a few votes, yet manages to post a comment about NAF’s activity. While I can appreciate if this game is getting slowed down by people having too many other commitments to properly attend to the game, it seems very shady. I’m not going to vote because I trust that people aren’t lying about their life outside of the game, but I’m certainly more concerned. Not going to vote for whom? Looks like NAF, but I’m not entirely sure. I’ve thought about the situation some more, and in the absence of any sign of coordination or giving-a-fuck AT ALL from our two top officers, I actually suggest the following, should they show up: \*\*Hal Briston: Arrest _Inner Stickler_ \*\* (TexCat confirm.) **fluiddruid: Do whatever the heck you want, or nothing.** (Overnight: Engineer do the right thing.) The reason I’m suggesting to do it this way is because if fubbleskag is locked up instead of Inner Stickler, then there is a chance that a combination of officer orders and the lynch could wind up with Inner Stickler as the engineer overnight. (Without even the benefit of him being able to control the doctor order and/or reveal as I first thought to go for – but it seems obvious we can’t rely on our officers to handle that properly anyway.) That would obviously be bad. Fubbleskag is far enough down the ranks that that will not be an issue. And yeah – by-the-odds-town-Idle and gone-NAF get left out in the cold. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/506 "2011-03-30T12:46:29Z")
Is there any point in a WOW on fluid? I’d really like to see her lynched today, and there are a number of points I could bring up in support of that – does anyone care enough what I think that it’s worth the effort? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/507 "2011-03-30T12:47:09Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > **vote Mahaloth** > > For the reasoning given [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13606893&postcount=334) plus his relatively early decision to investigate Idle, which made it harder for people to vote for him. :bleached: Early decision? I had people prodding me to put my investigation in because I was waiting until the end of the Day. How did anything I did make it harder for people to vote for me or Idle? What reasoning did you not like? This reeks of a “backtrack” kind of vote, where someone went back, made up a case on a predetermined person(pulled together cheap evidence) and placed the vote. **Vote Stanislaus** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/508 "2011-03-30T13:03:25Z")
It did make it harder to vote for Idle, I don’t really think you can dispute that. By ordering his examination, it meant that a vote for Idle would be a vote for less information. (Idle’s death reveal only, versus someone else’s death reveal plus your report of Idle’s alignment.) Nobody was going to do that. What I don’t get in stanislaus’ post is what he thinks your scummy motivation was. At the moment all I can think of is a potential link between you and Idle, but if that’s it, why didn’t he just say so? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/509 "2011-03-30T13:22:13Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > What I don’t get in stanislaus’ post is what he thinks your scummy motivation was. At the moment all I can think of is a potential link between you and Idle, but if that’s it, why didn’t he just say so? Because he doesn’t have a real case. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/510 "2011-03-30T13:27:32Z")
**Vote Hal** - Lame votes and his vanishing act. I voted to lynch him yesterDay, too. **Vote glowacks** - willing to vote without motivation consideration(another yesterDay vote). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/511 "2011-03-30T13:29:38Z")
Can you point to what you’re talking about as regards glowacks? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/512 "2011-03-30T13:45:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > :bleached: > > Early decision? I had people prodding me to put my investigation in because I was waiting until the end of the Day. How did anything I did make it harder for people to vote for me or Idle? What reasoning did you not like? > > This reeks of a “backtrack” kind of vote, where someone went back, made up a case on a predetermined person(pulled together cheap evidence) and placed the vote. If that’s your theory, how do you explain these posts that I made at the time? > [@Stanislaus](#): > > It does have a bit of a chilling effect on any further votes for Idle, but in theory there’s nothing wrong with investigating the runner-up. The question is whether Maha will be available right up to the close of play to adjust his instructions as needed. If so, fine. If it turns out he can’t make it, then he’s taken a risk on our behalf. If he knows now that he can’t be available, then I’ll be a lot more concerned by this choice. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > Good point. I’m more concerned about choice of a likely lynch-candidate then. However, I’m already voting Maha. How clever of me to know that I was going to go back and make up a case against you, and prepare for it by posting the reasons I would be using a Day earlier. As to the Scum motivation: any move which reduces Town’s freedom to lynch who it wants is Anti-Town. Yes, it’s still possible that Maha was directly trying to protect a Scummy Idle Thoughts; it’s also possible that he wanted to encourage last minute unvotes and revotes in order to muddy the voting record. What I find harder to believe is that he thought arbitrarily deciding that Town should be discouraged from lynching a leading candidate was a pro-Town move. Also, I linked to my still extant earlier reasons for voting for you, whcih included your vote against glowacks because you hadn’t outlined the Scum motivation in his behaviour. I note that you still haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/513 "2011-03-30T14:04:29Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Can you point to what you’re talking about as regards glowacks? Yes. [Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13589288&postcount=177) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/514 "2011-03-30T14:19:18Z")
OK. Is there any more to it than that, now that it’s a day plus later? @ Stanislaus > [@](#): > > As to the Scum motivation: any move which reduces Town’s freedom to lynch who it wants is Anti-Town. Yes, it’s still possible that Maha was directly trying to protect a Scummy Idle Thoughts; it’s also possible that he wanted to encourage last minute unvotes and revotes in order to muddy the voting record. What I find harder to believe is that he thought arbitrarily deciding that Town should be discouraged from lynching a leading candidate was a pro-Town move. How about “he thought that investigating the runner up was a reasonable choice and didn’t think through all the implications for people’s vote freedom”? I don’t really like the way you’ve framed this, here. And this is coming from someone who’s already voting Maha. In particular, your contention that he might have been trying to cause end of day confusion is a huge stretch in terms of scum motive. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/515 "2011-03-30T14:28:58Z")
I would like to see fluiddruid lynched as well. She is not talking nearly enough for an officer, especially given that she is using her power in strange ways. **Vote fluiddruid** **Vote Hal** He’s not here, he’s the captain and he’s not making much sense when he does post. Glowacks is making reasoned votes with justifications though, so regardless of what he said yesterday, he’s not doing it today. I don’t really like the idea of lynching people because in one post they said they would do an anti-town thing but then they don’t do it. **Vote Mahaloth** I wish Red would come post more. **VoteRed Skeezix** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/516 "2011-03-30T14:43:46Z")
Day Two Vote Count All Votes by Voting Player **Hal Briston** =\> no votes. **fluiddruid** =\> no votes. **TexCat** =\> Hal Briston (428). **peekercpa** =\> [del]fubbleskag (458-483)[/del], Hal Briston (458), Mahaloth (458), fluiddruid (458), NAF1138 (483). **Idle Thoughts** =\> glowacks (459). **Mahaloth** =\> Stanislaus (507), Hal Briston (510), glowacks (510). **Inner Stickler** =\> fluiddruid (515), Hal Briston (515), Mahaloth (515), Red Skeezix (515). **Red Skeezix** =\> fluiddruid (476), NAF1138 (476), Hal Briston (476), glowacks (476). **glowacks** =\> Mahaloth (477), [del]fubbleskag (477-482)[/del], TexCat (477), Crackrat (477), Stanislaus (482). **Normal Phase** =\> [del]fubbleskag (426-494)[/del], fluiddruid (426), Mahaloth (426), [del]Hal Briston (426-466)[/del], NAF1138 (466), Normal Phase (494). **fubbleskag** =\> no votes. **Crackrat** =\> [del]fubbleskag (473-481)[/del], Hal Briston (473), Mahaloth (473), Normal Phase (473). **Stanislaus** =\> [del]fubbleskag (456-484)[/del], Mahaloth (503), TexCat (503), fluiddruid (503), Crackrat (503). **NAF1138** =\> peekercpa (464), Normal Phase (464). Net Votes **fluiddruid** (5) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, Normal Phase, Stanislaus. **Mahaloth** (5) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler, glowacks, Normal Phase, Stanislaus. **Hal Briston** (3) \<= peekercpa, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix. **NAF1138** (3) \<= peekercpa, Red Skeezix, Normal Phase. **Crackrat** (2) \<= glowacks, Stanislaus. **TexCat** (2) \<= glowacks, Stanislaus. **Red Skeezix** (1) \<= Inner Stickler. **glowacks** (1) \<= Red Skeezix. **Stanislaus** (1) \<= glowacks. **Normal Phase** (1) \<= Normal Phase. With 14 players eligible to vote, 7 votes are needed to space. With these votes, no one will be spaced. A little over 4 hours until the end of the Day. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/517 "2011-03-30T14:55:01Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > OK. Is there any more to it than that, now that it’s a day plus later? > > @ Stanislaus > > How about “he thought that investigating the runner up was a reasonable choice and didn’t think through all the implications for people’s vote freedom”? I don’t really like the way you’ve framed this, here. And this is coming from someone who’s already voting Maha. In particular, your contention that he might have been trying to cause end of day confusion is a huge stretch in terms of scum motive. You know what, you’re right. It is a stretch. Confirmation bias in action - I already thought he was scummy, so jumped on an anti-town move as further proof of scumminess. However, I’m not going to unvote, because my other reasons, plus Inner Stickler’s excellent point about glowacks actual behaviour, still make him a good bet for scum. Also - 4 hours left and we don’t have a lynch candidate! We don’t have any arrest orders, or at least a statement that they’re being deliberately left unissued. This is not good. ---
**Author:** ![Crackrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Crackrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crackrat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/518 "2011-03-30T15:12:57Z")
**Vote Fluiddruid** - While I don’t think we should be instructing the officers in how to do their jobs, I think that discussion and justification of it is important and there hasn’t been enough. Unfortunately, **Fluid** can’t do anything about **Hal Briston** : > [@](#): > > 1. Executive Officer > Each Day one crew member may be promoted or demoted **(except the Captain or Executive Officer)** one position by the Executive Officer. This is a public action. Place your order in bold green in the game thread like this, > promote/demote Pleonast > Once issued, this order may not be rescinded. It takes effect immediately. Bolding mine. Also, @ **Mahaloth** , **glowacks** explained that in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13605192&postcount=310). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/519 "2011-03-30T15:20:41Z")
I do hope Idle won’t forget to give his examination order, at least. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676/520 "2011-03-30T16:13:08Z")
and maybe this has already been addressed. the rules state that folks in the brig may not vote. but what happens if they have already voted. does that mean that their vote doesn’t count? i assume that this is true but have sent a pm just to make sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-incorrigible/574676.md?page=27)