# Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Insipid \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 31, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896 "2009-07-31T18:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/341 "2009-08-20T15:05:37Z")
Having read through the plan, I endorse. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/342 "2009-08-20T15:09:07Z")
And after another two minutes of thought, I found the possible weakness: ColdPhoenix is Captain. Cookies is Security. If exactly one of them is Scum, they would definitely not be okay with this plan. _Readies the Suspecting Finger of Suspicion_ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/343 "2009-08-20T15:28:15Z")
> [@](#): > > And after another two minutes of thought, I found the possible weakness: > > ColdPhoenix is Captain. Cookies is Security. If exactly one of them is Scum, they would definitely not be okay with this plan. > > Readies the Suspecting Finger of Suspicion If either of them is Town, that one should know that the plan is no-fail, so either of them refusing to go along would be enough reason for me to switch my vote to that person. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/344 "2009-08-20T16:32:30Z")
Day Three Current Vote Count 6 players outside the Brig =\> 4 votes to lynch. **Hal Briston** will be lynched with these votes. **Hal Briston** (4): ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [257], Chronos [318], ColdPhoenix [337], Scuba\_Ben [338]. **ColdPhoenix** (1): ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [95]. **Darth Sensitive** (1): Chronos [318]. **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (0): [del]Scuba\_Ben [327-338][/del]. Arrest warrants: [del] **Chronos** by ColdPhoenix [169][/del] cancelled by ColdPhoenix [325]. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/345 "2009-08-20T16:37:38Z")
[del]Oops, I just saw the flaw in your plan, **Chronos** : ColdPhoenix already used his Day-power as Captain this Day-cycle; IIRC, he can’t issue an arrest warrant Today.[/del] Then I checked the rules to make sure, and found I was wrong. The Captain may issue one arrest warrant per Day, and may cancel/release one arrest warrant per Day. So your plan is still a Very Good Idea. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/346 "2009-08-20T19:57:07Z")
I understand wanting to investigate me, but we could also lynch Hal or Darth and brig + investigate the other to potentially narrow down some of the possible outcomes of what may or may not go down at Night. Just something to consider. Brigging or killing a townie at this point would be bad, but this way we can at least ensure if whoever is in the brig should stay there or not. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/347 "2009-08-20T20:16:38Z")
We’re getting to the point where brigging someone itself gives useful information. If we brig someone and there’s still a night-kill, then that means that there’s someone not in the brig who’s still Scum. Combine that with an investigation of someone else, and we can get pretty much all we need. Just to make things clear, here: I have no problem whatsoever with Townies ending up dead or in the Brig, so long as Town still wins the game. In some of the scenarios I outlined, Townies end up killed or brigged, but as long as **Cookies** and **ColdPhoenix** aren’t both Scum, Town still wins in all of them. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/348 "2009-08-20T20:18:06Z")
Actually, Scuba will get to double dip for investigations as Doctor and Engineer as soon as we brig whoever we decide to brig. Using the Engineers’ powers on the person in the brig would be a waste since they can’t do anything anyway. So it boils down to a decision of whether to use the Doctor investigation on me, Cold, or whoever is in the brig. And then following up with a decision on who to do the Engineer lookup on between any of the three of us left who isn’t in the brig. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/349 "2009-08-20T20:39:49Z")
I disagree with **Cookies** after some thought. The intent of throwing one player out the airlock, a second in the brig, and a third into the exam room is to find out information about three players at the cost of one. Examining whoever’s in the brig only finds out information about two players. And here’s the weakness: If there is no overnight murder, the Scum might have passed on their kill to frame whoever’s in the brig. Also, don’t worry too much about me double-dipping. I expect the Mutineers to kill either Chronos or myself; given Chronos’s mostly-foolproof plan, I’m the more likely target. In case the Mutineers don’t kill me as Engineer, who should I monitor? The obvious choice is Chronos, but there’s other choices too. I’m waiting on input on the plan from the other two players, especially **ColdPhoenix** who would have to give the arrest order. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/350 "2009-08-20T21:11:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > 10: **ColdPhoenix** and **Cookies** are the Scum-- In this case and this case alone do we lose. But I think that, given the voting record, it’s extremely unlikely that **ColdPhoenix** and **Cookies** are both Scum together. So this case is a risk I’m willing to take. I think we can protect against this. 1. Throw Hal out the airlock and Darth Sensitive in the brig (or vice versa). 2. I examine Cookies Today. (So far as Chronos described.) 3’. Cookies comes up Mutineer. So we throw her out the airlock Tomorrow. 4’. Also lock ColdPhoenix in the brig Tomorrow. If the game does not end, then the situation is two untrusted players in the brig (of whom at least one is a Mutineer), and one practically confirmed player outside it (Chronos or me). The free player can then space both people in the brig without interference. Actually, we may want to throw ColdPhoenix in the brig anyway, in the other situation: Cookies comes up Loyal, so again the situation would reduce to all non-confirmed players in the Brig and only confirmed Loyal players free. Chronos, please check my reasoning carefully. Logic bit us in the stern last game. Cookies and ColdPhoenix, please also check this plan. Do you see any way it would not clinch the game for the Loyalists? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/351 "2009-08-20T21:35:05Z")
If **Cookies** and **ColdPhoenix** are both Muties, then we can’t throw anyone in the Brig toMorrow, since they’re Captain and Security. So that’d leave us at three live players toMorrow, two of whom are Muties. Game over. I could get **Cookies** out of the Security slot, but the only way to get the Captain out of his seat is to lynch him, and I don’t think that’s a good plan. I think that we just don’t have enough bits to guarantee victory in all scenarios. No matter what we do, there is going to be some scenario where we lose. But I think that **Cookies/ColdPhoenix** is the least likely of the ten possible scenarios, so we should go for the plan that only loses in that case. Also, if we both brig and lynch toDay, then we won’t have an engineer toNight: > [@](#): > > Every crew-member has a rank. The top-five ranked living crew-members are officers, with special abilities. Crew-members advance to fill missing offices. Crew-members in the Brig cannot be officers, but will regain their former position if released. **If there are fewer than five crew-members available to be officers, the Head of Engineering and Ship’s Doctor positions will not be filled.** If there are only two crew-members available, the Executive Officer will also take on the Chief of Security’s authority. If there is only one, the Captain will be vested with the power of both the Executive Officer and Chief of Security. If somehow all living crew-members are in the Brig, the ship’s fail-safe protocols will automatically release all prisoners. (emphasis mine). So if we lynch and arrest, then toNight we’ll have four free, living players, who will be Captain, XO, Security, and Redshirt. Which isn’t all that big a deal, since any confirmed player in the Engineer’s seat will be sure to be Night-killed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/352 "2009-08-20T23:14:44Z")
So if **Cookies** and **ColdPhoenix** are both Muties (which you find unlikely), we’d have to jettison one of them Today. Otherwise – it’s a good plan in its current form. Cookies? ColdPhoenix? Your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/353 "2009-08-20T23:47:41Z")
Seems straightforward to me. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/354 "2009-08-21T07:21:26Z")
The plan sounds like a winner. **Arrest Darth Sensitive** > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Actually, we may want to throw ColdPhoenix in the brig anyway Good luck with that one! 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/355 "2009-08-21T15:32:48Z")
Now all we need is **Cookies** to do her part. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/356 "2009-08-21T15:37:53Z")
Seems my previous post that would have been at the top of this page was hamstered ☹ Said about the same thing, but it’s that much closer to being official now Well, I guess that I’m getting brigged, so this vote is a formality, but I do stand behind it. **Vote Hal** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/357 "2009-08-21T15:46:44Z")
A little over three hours left ToDay. Day Three Current Vote Count 6 players outside the Brig =\> 4 votes to lynch. **Hal Briston** will be lynched with these votes. **Hal Briston** (5): ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [257], Chronos [318], ColdPhoenix [337], Scuba\_Ben [338], Darth Sensitive [356]. **ColdPhoenix** (1): ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [95]. **Darth Sensitive** (1): Chronos [318]. **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (0): [del]Scuba\_Ben [327-338][/del]. Arrest warrants: **Darth Sensitive** by ColdPhoenix [354]. [del] **Chronos** by ColdPhoenix [169][/del] cancelled by ColdPhoenix [325]. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/358 "2009-08-21T16:01:43Z")
Ah well…worst personal performance ever. My apologies to the crew – looks like I ended my hiatus a bit too soon. Anyway, apart from nailing crew Today, the plan is reasonably solid. Vote **Darth** One thing to take away from this for Tomorrow – examine those most vocal for my lynch. I’m not saying I don’t deserve it, but lynching the head of engineering is a huge boon to scum who no longer have to worry about a possible report on their activities in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/359 "2009-08-21T16:05:01Z")
**Hal** , whoever we lynch, as long as somebody is in the brig, there’s no Engineer Tonight. Your number just came up first. But I’m getting suspicious of **Cookies** not showing up this morning to follow through on the plan. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/360 "2009-08-21T16:23:51Z")
Well, as promotion/brigging is concurrent with the end of day, Scuba won’t get a chance to make the investigation. I’ll go with the conventional wisdom and **Investigate ColdPheonix** Class time! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896.md?page=19)