# Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Insipid \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 31, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896 "2009-07-31T18:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/101 "2009-08-06T19:29:44Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Several of you have yet to say anything very substantive, and **Hal Briston** hasn’t posted at all. S’truth…sorry about that. I got tossed a “get this done yesterday” project that sucked up most of my usual posting time the past two days. All done now, though, so now it’s catch-up time. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/102 "2009-08-06T19:31:49Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > I’m assuming the doctor can’t tell us the result at night as ““Strategy” posts are only permitted during the Day” but if the person who ordered the medical is alive but no longer the doctor will they receive the results? > > Am tempted to issue an arrest warrant for **Chronos** if that’s the case. The results go to the player who made the order not whoever is currently inhabiting the role. What would arresting Chronos do? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/103 "2009-08-06T19:52:13Z")
FYI, my cookies are packed with girl bits. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/104 "2009-08-06T20:00:24Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The results go to the player who made the order not whoever is currently inhabiting the role. What would arresting Chronos do? If he’s able to receive the result in the brig then it would mean that we could put the doctor out of commission but still receive the results of his test. It’s not clear if he’d receive the result in the brog though. This is just an idea I’m putting out there and I’d appreciate others’ views. I feel he is more suspicious than most but then there are people who haven’t said much. Scum might be just keeping their heads down in the hope that we give each other reasons to vote for ourselves. I feel that **Cookies** , **Scuba Ben** , and **Chronos**. That’s why I’ve voted for/am considering voting for them. But as has been discussed above, spacing the doctor isn’t a great idea, hence the potential arrest warrant. Each of those are individually more likely town than scum, but there are scum out there and I think they’re the most likely so far. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/105 "2009-08-06T20:02:02Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > FYI, my cookies are packed with girl bits. Apologies :o ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/106 "2009-08-06T20:08:26Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > My suspicions were aroused by you both wanting town power roles to tell the engineer who they are. I think that’s risky as if the engineer is scum then it will be very damaging for town. In fact I think the risks outweigh the benefits so it seems scummy and if you are scum then taking out one of the top 3 officers in the first night would place you in that position. > > As Cookies then agreed with that startegy he seemed dodgy too and I realised that if you were both scum then you’d be in a very strong position by getting people to do that and then moving yourselves to engineer and doctor. > > That all might be a stretch but at this stage it’s all I’ve got. > > What you say about the doctor is true though. You are more likely town than scum so it is useful to keep you (as doctor) alive. > > \*\*Unvote Chronos > \*\* > > The results of the medical: “After your analysis, at the end the Day, you will learn whether or not that crew-member is loyal or mutinous.” > > I’m assuming the doctor can’t tell us the result at night as ““Strategy” posts are only permitted during the Day” but if the person who ordered the medical is alive but no longer the doctor will they receive the results? > > Am tempted to issue an arrest warrant for **Chronos** if that’s the case. > > I think dismissive is probably a strong way to describe my comment. I wasn’t sure that there would be but as you showed with the highlighted quotes, there probably are power roles. > > The **Scuba Ben** potential slip is making me think. I’ll see what happens but may be sending a vote that way too. Nice pot/kettle statement. I don’t like being linked to players merely for agreeing with something that they said, and I’m sure Chronos isn’t too fond of being tied to me like we’re in a three-legged race either. I want to be clear that I am speaking only for myself, but I think it is fair to say that you are misrepresenting us both as “wanting town power roles to tell the engineer who they are”. In certain conjectured circumstances it seems like reasonable option because it could help to rule out a lot of confusion. You then go on to make the statement that: > [@](#): > > We may not even have power roles as the officer positions kind of provide that anyway? In spite of the fact that the Mod took at least 3 opportunities in the rules to imply otherwise. So you are willing to stretch for casting suspicion but are not so comfortable when a similar approach is taken with you. Double standards are tricky things, especially if you are a new player and possibly not sensitive to them. To me, they stick out like sore thumbs as anti-town even if they are not manipulative malicious in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/107 "2009-08-06T20:16:06Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The results go to the player who made the order not whoever is currently inhabiting the role. What would arresting Chronos do? If the Security Officer were to put him in the brig before he ordered an examination, **Cookies** would become Doctor in his place and be able to make the order instead. At least that’s my understanding, based on the Brig order being said to take place immediately. I don’t expect it to happen, not least because **ColdPhoenix** is suspicious of **Cookies** also; hence from his perspective it wouldn’t accomplish much. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/108 "2009-08-06T20:31:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Another thought: If there are, among the secret roles, any pro-Town roles that take active actions, it might actually be worthwhile for them to declare themselves before they use their actions > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > … and people with hidden roles considering the possibility of forecasting them so as not confuse the Engineer. These were the comments about secret roles declaring themselves. I’m assuming that **Chronos** meant declare to the Engineer as declaring to all would definitely alert scum to who they are. I just think that if town have any power roles it’s best that scum don’t find out who they are, and that’s why I thought the suggestion of declarations was slightly scummy. Perhaps my use of “wanting” was a bit strong but I still think that the idea works more in scum’s favour than town’s. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Nice pot/kettle statement. > … > So you are willing to stretch for casting suspicion but are not so comfortable when a similar approach is taken with you. Double standards are tricky things, especially if you are a new player and possibly not sensitive to them. To me, they stick out like sore thumbs as anti-town even if they are not manipulative malicious in nature. I’ve already admitted I was wrong in saying “we may not even have power roles” as, from what you pointed out, it looks likely that we do. I don’t see what’s scummy in the least about it. But I am new so educate me! 🙂 If it’s not scummy then does that make your vote OMGUS? 😉 Had to try out some of the lingo. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/109 "2009-08-06T20:37:11Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > These were the comments about secret roles declaring themselves. I’m assuming that **Chronos** meant declare to the Engineer as declaring to all would definitely alert scum to who they are. I just think that if town have any power roles it’s best that scum don’t find out who they are, and that’s why I thought the suggestion of declarations was slightly scummy. Perhaps my use of “wanting” was a bit strong but I still think that the idea works more in scum’s favour than town’s. How would the town power roles be able to declare themselves to the Engineer without declaring themselves to everybody? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/110 "2009-08-06T20:48:52Z")
Downplaying the possibility of undisclosed powers can put the Town at the disadvantage of complacency with the perspective that only the public information applies to the game. This could lead to suspicion of any Townies with hidden roles if those roles and/or their outcome put them at odds with the public rule set. It could also have the same result for any Townies who might get caught up in the ripple effect of any Scum who might have hidden roles. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/111 "2009-08-06T20:57:29Z")
Quoth **Normal Phase** : > [@](#): > > I’ll also note that your own assessment of that comment as not being all that dangerous doesn’t really address the heart of my own objection to it – whether he meant to or not, Scuba Ben has given the impression that he may know something about the Scum that is not in evidence in the game description. And Scuba Ben himself, while addressing every single other one of Darth Sensitive’s points, did not address that one. Ah, so in other words, it’s not the idea itself you objected to, but the thought that it might be a Perfect Information slip? OK, that’s more reasonable. I still want to hear what **Darth** has to say about it, though. As for thinking it optimal for Town to cast the same number of votes as there are Scum, basically, with this voting system, we’re setting some threshold of suspicion, and voting for the set of people who lie above that threshold. The question then is where is the appropriate point to set that threshold, and I think that the optimum place to set it is based on the number of Scum. This is just a hunch at this point, and not the result of any rigorous analysis, so I can’t really argue with anyone holding a different view. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/112 "2009-08-06T22:32:14Z")
Incidentally, about secret roles declaring: There’s no way for them to declare just to the Engineer (communication outside of the thread is forbidden), so unfortunately this would also alert the Scum to their existence, and make them appealing targets. The reason that I think this might be acceptable is that the game setup, by its nature, already gives the Scum multiple appealing targets: They might want to target the Doctor to silence him, or to target a high-ranking officer to move the Scum up the ranks. Of course, this is only relevant in the first place if there are Town-aligned power roles that require an active interaction with someone else and which the role-holder wants to use, which is far from certain. On the one hand, a Scum power role won’t be influenced by any suggestion I make. On the other hand a Townie with a secret passive power, like a mason, wouldn’t be detected by by the Engineer anyway, so it wouldn’t matter. And on the third hand, we might have something like a Vigilante, where conventional wisdom is that he should voluntarily refrain from using his power the first Night, in which case he also wouldn’t be detected by the Engineer. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/113 "2009-08-07T00:33:45Z")
**ColdPhoenix** , I think the same suggestion for the promotion capability – that the XO post the rationale for both people being swapped – ought to extend to arrest warrants. Should you decide to issue an arrest warrant, I would like to see rationales both for the arrest warrant and, in the case of an officer, for the person who is next on the list. ( **DarkCookies** in this case.) I would like to see the same rationales from the Security chief for executing the arrest. In other matters, I had a thought regarding the Engineer: > [@GM pedescribe](#): > > {The Engineer} will receive a single list at the end of the Night of all players who your target interacted with or who interacted with your target. **Does this mean that the Engineer will receive separate lists of who the subject interacted with and who interacted with the subject, or one list?** That is, if Engineer Inner Stickler monitors Doc Chronos who examines somebody who in turn uses their night action on Chronos, will Inner Stickler get “X interacted with \” and also “\ interacted with Chronos”? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/114 "2009-08-07T01:22:03Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > **ColdPhoenix** , I think the same suggestion for the promotion capability – that the XO post the rationale for both people being swapped – ought to extend to arrest warrants. Should you decide to issue an arrest warrant, I would like to see rationales both for the arrest warrant and, in the case of an officer, for the person who is next on the list. ( **DarkCookies** in this case.) > > I would like to see the same rationales from the Security chief for executing the arrest. > > In other matters, I had a thought regarding the Engineer: > **Does this mean that the Engineer will receive separate lists of who the subject interacted with and who interacted with the subject, or one list?** That is, if Engineer Inner Stickler monitors Doc Chronos who examines somebody who in turn uses their night action on Chronos, will Inner Stickler get “X interacted with \” and also “\ interacted with Chronos”? Um. Where is that quote from? Pede isn’t our Mod and that isn’t a quote from our rules. Are you making a metagame question based on another ruleset? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/115 "2009-08-07T01:28:41Z")
Sorry, used to the quoting behavior of other boards. This is the quote I was referring to… > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by GM pedescribe > {The Engineer} will receive a single list at the end of the Night of all players who your target interacted with or who interacted with your target. …and I see now that it is a component of Pleo’s game-opening-rule for the Head of Engineering in the OP, but that was still a confusing as hell way of trying to quote it as Pede isn’t the mod or even in the game. I’d still like to know where you got it and why there is questionable stuff all over your “quote”. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/116 "2009-08-07T07:55:25Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > How would the town power roles be able to declare themselves to the Engineer without declaring themselves to everybody? I had thought PM, but now see that’s forbidden. I guess it’s not possible. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Downplaying the possibility of undisclosed powers can put the Town at the disadvantage of complacency with the perspective that only the public information applies to the game. This could lead to suspicion of any Townies with hidden roles if those roles and/or their outcome put them at odds with the public rule set. It could also have the same result for any Townies who might get caught up in the ripple effect of any Scum who might have hidden roles. I see what you’re saying but it’s a bit of a stretch and certainly not what I intended. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > **ColdPhoenix** , I think the same suggestion for the promotion capability – that the XO post the rationale for both people being swapped – ought to extend to arrest warrants. Should you decide to issue an arrest warrant, I would like to see rationales both for the arrest warrant and, in the case of an officer, for the person who is next on the list. ( **DarkCookies** in this case.) Fair enough, if/when I order an arrest I’ll keep it in mind. > [@Chronos](#): > > Incidentally, about secret roles declaring… The reason that I think this might be acceptable is that the game setup, by its nature, already gives the Scum multiple appealing targets… > Of course, this is only relevant in the first place if there are Town-aligned power roles that require an active interaction with someone else and which the role-holder wants to use, which is far from certain. I see where you’re coming from and was hasty with my accusations. As I voted Cookies for the same reason: **Unvote Cookies** > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Um. Where is that quote from? Pede isn’t our Mod and that isn’t a quote from our rules. Are you making a metagame question based on another ruleset? I’m thinking that’s an innocent mistake as Pede was in the Lost game that **Scuba Ben** was in and Pleonast starts with a P. It is a quote from the rules, see the middle of the Engineer text in the first post. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/117 "2009-08-07T13:24:12Z")
Arright, time to get things in gear over here. The first thing that jumps out at me is that the scum have a distinct advantage here that they generally don’t have – the town side is fully out in the open. There’s no way for a vanilla townie to hint at being a power role in order to try and play scumbait. Hopefully this is countered by a lower scum count. Ok, the play-by-play as I read through: > [@Chronos](#): > > Does anybody have any recommendations as to whom I should examine toDay? My inclination is to pick **ColdPhoenix** , **Normal Phase** , or **Ichini Sanshigo** , just because I’m worried about the possibility of mutineers in the top three positions. I’d be very surprised if that _wasn’t_ the case. Hmmm…let me amend that – I don’t think the Captain would be a mutineer, so I’ll say we almost certainly have at least one in the 2-4 group. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > I believe people in the Brig cannot take any actions, including participating in the Mutineers’ Night discussions and spacing. Woah woah woah…did I miss something? I’m not seeing anything that would give any indication of that – might you have received some additional info in your PM? (As expected, I now see others have picked up on this as well). > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Why is failure to lynch anyone automatically bad on Day 1, barring someone slipping up badly, or something? The odds seem most likely to be either 7-3 (with more powerful hidden town roles) or 8-2 (with less powerful ones) that we get it wrong – and given the Scum won’t be encouraging votes for themselves, probably worse than that. Yes, we have firmer vote information to work with later, but Day 1 votes are iffy to draw conclusions on anyway, given that no one but the Scum knows anything. By that logic, town should never vote until there is a major slip-up or confirmed town is able to supply reliable info on who is scum. The town is (almost) always taking a chance when they vote – still, it’s one of the basic tenants of the game. Gotta do it, or all we do is play into the scum’s hand. (And as I get further along, I see **Chronos** addressed this). This is one of he problems of coming in late – things you pick up on wind up being already addressed. Lemme read ahead and fill in the blanks later… ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/118 "2009-08-07T13:47:24Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > …and I see now that it is a component of Pleo’s game-opening-rule for the Head of Engineering in the OP, but that was still a confusing as hell way of trying to quote it as Pede isn’t the mod or even in the game. I’d still like to know where you got it and why there is questionable stuff all over your “quote”. Because I confused **GM Pleonast** with Pedescribe. Shimatta! :smack: Maybe a better example will help clarify my question. Taking only the public roles into account, assume Eng. **Inner Stickler** monitors Doc **Chronos** , who examines **Inner Stickler**. There are two possible results from the monitoring, and I want to know which case we have. (For the sake of my example, let’s assume that the Engineer’s monitoring counts as an “interaction.” It probably doesn’t, but that’s a wild guess. See what happened to me on the last Day of Lost Mafia for my success rate with probabilities.) Case I: All interactions are reported. Inner Stickler is informed: - Subject Chronos interacted with Inner Stickler (Doc examination) - Inner Stickler interacted with subject Chronos (Engineer monitoring – again I doubt this counts as interaction, but it helps with the example) Case II: Multiple interactions are reported only once. Inner Stickler is informed only: - Subject Chronos interacted with Inner Stickler, no indication of who was active. **These cases produce dramatically different sets of information. Which case is present, oh great GM Pleonast?** **Hal** : I read too much into the initial ruleset. It’s clear that Mutineers in the Brig cannot take part in the Spacing. There is no mention of whether they can or cannot communicate with their fellow Commie Traitor Mutineers on the Scum board. AOP: **Hal** , do you have any evidence that the Town side is fully out in the open? The rules say: > [@GM Pleonast](#): > > There may also be some special roles. These crew-members will be either loyal or mutinous. The other quirk is that Scum may hold the open roles. That’s almost as unusual as the time I saw a Mafiascum set-up where the Scum did NOT know who else was Scum. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/119 "2009-08-07T13:52:38Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > I’d be very surprised if that _wasn’t_ the case. Hmmm…let me amend that – I don’t think the Captain would be a mutineer, so I’ll say we almost certainly have at least one in the 2-4 group. Why do you say the captain wouldn’t be a mutineer? I had initally (before roles were given out) thought that the captain couldn’t be a mutineer as he’s the captain they’re being mutinous towards but when the roles were given this was part of the intro: "That’s no asteroid, it’s Captain ShadowFacts! Unfortunately, the Captain and his space suit seem to have been rendered non-functional by an inanimate carbon rod protruding through his chest. Looks like those rumors of a mutiny have come true. The ship’s computer reports the new crew complement: 1. ColdPhoenix – Captain" So in theory the captain could be a mutineer (he may have been XO under the old captain). I’m not a mutineer though! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/120 "2009-08-07T14:08:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Normal Phase** :Ah, so in other words, it’s not the idea itself you objected to, but the thought that it might be a Perfect Information slip? OK, that’s more reasonable. I still want to hear what **Darth** has to say about it, though. Yes, that was my primary objection to the comment. It’s what I was referring to when I referred to it as a “slip up”. I’ve been following along with the other current game and am starting to realize I’m going to have to be a lot more thorough with explaining the reasoning behind my actions than I was in that post. It’s not what I’m used to doing, but I’ll get there. Following on from that, if I’m going to object to a possible “perfect information” tell from **Scuba Ben** , I have to call out **ColdPhoenix** now for a similar reason. His comment about revealing power roles to the Engineer only struck me as strange last night, but I had no time to follow up on it. Happily, **Inner Sticker** did. I find it very hard to credit that someone playing one of these games (and having admittedly followed along with a prior game) could fail to notice the communication rules. Perhaps this is just my background kicking in again: in the games I’m used to, private communication is where the bulk of the game takes place, so the difference here is very striking to me, a defining factor even. That may not be the case for **ColdPhoenix**. But it’s also possible that his role does allow private communication – that he is a mutineer, in other words – and being new to this, that’s why he assumed that everyone could do the same. It would be a pretty horrific mistake for Scum to make, but I’ve seen worse, so … **vote ColdPhoenix** > [@Hal Briston](#): > > The first thing that jumps out at me is that the scum have a distinct advantage here that they generally don’t have – the town side is fully out in the open. There’s no way for a vanilla townie to hint at being a power role in order to try and play scumbait. Hopefully this is countered by a lower scum count. This assumption is directly contradicted by the opening post, which claims that hidden power roles may be present. > [@Hal Briston](#): > > I’d be very surprised if that wasn’t the case. Hmmm…let me amend that – I don’t think the Captain would be a mutineer, so I’ll say we almost certainly have at least one in the 2-4 group. This assumption is also contradicted by **Pleonast** , who stated that the roles were to be randomized. **ColdPhoenix** could be a mutineer as easily as anyone else. Again, if you are Scum, these two mistakes would be incredibly clumsy and unfortunate (in terms of having a good long game), but given that the first one could be meant to encourage people to believe that there are fewer Scum than there actually are; and given that I am also suspicious of **ColdPhoenix** as described above, I have to add you to my list for making assumptions that could only hurt the Town, if believed. **vote Hal Briston** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896.md?page=7)