# Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Insipid \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 31, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896 "2009-07-31T18:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/121 "2009-08-07T14:11:43Z")
This morning’s current vote count. Day One Day One 10 players outside the Brig =\> 6 votes to lynch. No would be lynched with these votes. **ColdPhoenix** (3): Scuba\_Ben [70], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [95], Normal Phase [120] **Scuba\_Ben** (2): [del]Scuba\_Ben [70-89][/del], Darth Sensitive [79], Normal Phase [83] **Darth Sensitive** (2): Scuba\_Ben [70], Chronos [93] **Hal Briston** (2): Scuba\_Ben [70], Normal Phase [120] **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70], [del]ColdPhoenix [87-116][/del] **Normal Phase** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70] **Ichini Sanshigo** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70] **Inner Stickler** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70] **DiggitCamara** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70] **Chronos** (0): [del]Scuba\_Ben [70-94][/del], [del]ColdPhoenix [87-100][/del] I’ll remind players that all rules questions must be PM’d directly to me. I am typically not around much on weekends, but don’t let that stop you from playing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/122 "2009-08-07T14:19:21Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I have to call out **ColdPhoenix** now for a similar reason. His comment about revealing power roles to the Engineer only struck me as strange … > I find it very hard to credit that someone playing one of these games (and having admittedly followed along with a prior game) could fail to notice the communication rules. Perhaps this is just my background kicking in again: in the games I’m used to, private communication is where the bulk of the game takes place, so the difference here is very striking to me, a defining factor even. That may not be the case for **ColdPhoenix**. But it’s also possible that his role does allow private communication – that he is a mutineer, in other words – and being new to this, that’s why he assumed that everyone could do the same. Ha! I can see why you’d make that assumption. It’s wrong, it really is just because I’m new to this, but it was a silly mistake. :smack: I’m now sure that I’m either going to be spaced today thanks to that or killed by scum due to being captain tonight so you’ll see it was my idiocy then! ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/123 "2009-08-07T14:23:44Z")
Just a potential thought in my defence on the pm thing. I believe scum have a board too, wouldn’t they also be banned from pms? So if anything it would indicate that I have some power role (I don’t) rather than being scum. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/124 "2009-08-07T14:40:22Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > This assumption is also contradicted by **Pleonast** , who stated that the roles were to be randomized. **ColdPhoenix** could be a mutineer as easily as anyone else. Hmm, so it is. So has it been confirmed how the setup was done? We’re there two random drawings, one for roles and one for allegiance? If that’s the case, then truly anyone could be of any role, and there’s no sense in trying to second-guess how **Pleo** might set things up. And forgive me if any of this has already been covered – I’m \ skimming quite a bit at the moment. The Littlest Briston’s day care is closed for a four-day weekend, meaning _I’m_ the day care today. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/125 "2009-08-07T14:43:32Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > We’re there two random drawings, one for roles and one for allegiance? If that’s the case, then truly anyone could be of any role, and there’s no sense in trying to second-guess how **Pleo** might set things up. That’s the assumption I’m working under. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/126 "2009-08-07T15:31:00Z")
**Rules Clarifications:** For any investigative power, the player that uses the power (by issuing a public order or via PM as appropriate to the role) will get the results of that power. No matter what, even if dead or in the Brig or no longer in that role for any reason. Although players are strongly discouraged from talking strategy at Night, there are no moderator-enforced penalties for doing so. Night is your chance to take a break from the game, but it’s up to the players to actually do so or not. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/127 "2009-08-07T19:50:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This is probably my last vote before my out-of-town friend shows up (his flight was delayed), so I’d better get in a vote now. In [79](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11415092&postcount=79), **Darth Sensitive** votes for **Scuba\_Ben** for his “dangerous assumption” that Scum in the Brig can’t take part in their night discussion. In [84](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11415428&postcount=84), I point out that that assumption isn’t really all that dangerous, and doesn’t change the endgame plan that **Scuba** put forth. Then, in [85](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11415465&postcount=85), **Darth** agrees that that’s a valid endgame scenario, but doesn’t unvote **Scuba** , even though it looks to me like the reason for the vote is removed. For this reason, I will > **Vote Darth Sensitive**. The assumption that scum in the brig can’t throw anybody out the airlock is a fine one. What with it being laid out pretty nicely in the rules and all. Brigging all the scum would stop the nightkills. Assuming that brigging the scum would shut them up with each other, when it wouldn’t stop them talking with us, doesn’t make sense. He’s either (in order of how likely I think it is): a) incorrect in his interpretation of the rules = simple anti-town mistake if that idea took hold b) scum who said so deliberately in order to make us think that brigging them would reduce coordination = pro-scum move c) town with extra information that he let slip out = both anti and pro town, as we learn some more about the game, but hurts his secrecy d) scum slip = pro town as we learn about the game and **Scuba** too. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/128 "2009-08-07T19:54:12Z")
I guess maybe Pleo is not going to answer Scuba’s question about the Engineer’s results. Perhaps it is in retribution for being confused with Pede. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/129 "2009-08-07T20:18:49Z")
**Darth** , I think that your possibility a, that it was just a simple mistake of interpretation of the rules, is overwhelmingly the most likely there. **Cookies** , **Pleo** has said that all rules questions should be in PM. So presumably that’s why he’s not answering the question about the Engineer’s results. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/130 "2009-08-08T15:05:08Z")
I don’t have much time, since we’re about to head off to Yellowstone, but a wrinkle that occurred to me in the rules: It looks like we might end up lynching an officer, which would mean that I would spend toNight as Engineer. It wouldn’t do any good for me to watch myself, which means that the Mutineers could kill me (and effectively block both investigations) with impunity. To remedy this, I recommend one of three possible solutions: 1: The XO can promote me 2: The XO can demote me 3: The Captain and Security Chief can throw an officer (including me) in the Brig after I put in my examination order Any one of these would result in me not being the Engineer tonight, so whomever the Engineer is could then (at least potentially) watch me. My preference is for a promotion or demotion, but obviously it’s not my choice to make. In case you decide on the brig option, I need to have my examination order in before-hand, so **Examine Ichini Sanshigo** I picked **Ichini** because I think that the other two top officers might have a shorter life expectancy, and if I end up confirming someone Town, it’s best if we can keep that person around for a while. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/131 "2009-08-08T16:29:14Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Yes, that was my primary objection to the comment. It’s what I was referring to when I referred to it as a “slip up”. I’ve been following along with the other current game and am starting to realize I’m going to have to be a lot more thorough with explaining the reasoning behind my actions than I was in that post. It’s not what I’m used to doing, but I’ll get there. > > Following on from that, if I’m going to object to a possible “perfect information” tell from **Scuba Ben** , I have to call out **ColdPhoenix** now for a similar reason. His comment about revealing power roles to the Engineer only struck me as strange last night, but I had no time to follow up on it. Happily, **Inner Sticker** did. > > I find it very hard to credit that someone playing one of these games (and having admittedly followed along with a prior game) could fail to notice the communication rules. Perhaps this is just my background kicking in again: in the games I’m used to, private communication is where the bulk of the game takes place, so the difference here is very striking to me, a defining factor even. That may not be the case for **ColdPhoenix**. But it’s also possible that his role does allow private communication – that he is a mutineer, in other words – and being new to this, that’s why he assumed that everyone could do the same. It would be a pretty horrific mistake for Scum to make, but I’ve seen worse, so … > > **vote ColdPhoenix** > > (snip) This, to me, is the hardest ping I’ve seen all Day. Basically, I see **ColdPhoenix** playing a typical newbie game thus far. And it’s a pretty obvious pattern (s)he’s following, so I can’t really see anyone with experience in these games failing to notice that pattern (YMMV). So: **vote Normal Phase** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/132 "2009-08-08T18:09:25Z")
Ironic; I thought I might catch a vote if I did _not_ vote for **ColdPhoenix** after voting **Scuba Ben** for something similar. I do find **Cold Phoenix** ’s behavior fairly straightforward thus far – both the **Chronos** / **Cookies** votes and the backing down from them are things any new player might do. But by the same token, a new player might make a wrong assumption about communication that a more experienced player would not; hence the vote stands. On the other hand, in the light of a new day, my vote for \*\*Hal Briston[/'b] starts to look a little silly. Yes, the mistakes he made are Scum-biased, but they’re also just way too obvious to reflect much beyond a lack of attention. So that one’s going. **unvote Hal Briston** > [@Chronos](#): > > I picked Ichini because I think that the other two top officers might have a shorter life expectancy, and if I end up confirming someone Town, it’s best if we can keep that person around for a while. This amuses me. 😃 Anyway, good point in that post about you potentially holding both Doctor and Engineer roles in a single day, and I’ll promote/demote as necessary once it’s clearer who will be spaced. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/133 "2009-08-09T17:30:27Z")
Current Day One Vote Count 10 players outside the Brig =\> 6 votes to lynch. No one gets lynched with the current vote count. **ColdPhoenix** (3): Scuba\_Ben [70], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [95], Normal Phase [120] **Scuba\_Ben** (2): [del]Scuba\_Ben [70-89][/del], Darth Sensitive [79], Normal Phase [83] **Darth Sensitive** (2): Scuba\_Ben [70], Chronos [93] **Normal Phase** (2): Scuba\_Ben [70], DiggitCamara [131] **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70], [del]ColdPhoenix [87-116][/del] **Ichini Sanshigo** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70] **Inner Stickler** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70] **DiggitCamara** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70] **Hal Briston** (1): Scuba\_Ben [70], [del]Normal Phase [120-132][/del] **Chronos** (0): [del]Scuba\_Ben [70-94][/del], [del]ColdPhoenix [87-100][/del] Doctor **Chronos** is examining **Ichini Sanshigo** [130]. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/134 "2009-08-09T20:10:17Z")
Are we really looking at a no-lynch? While I can see how much of my suspicions of ColdPhoenix can be explained away by being new to the game, that could just as well be a cover. I’d be willing to switch to Scuba, as I don’t particularly like his voting for everyone. I don’t think we should no lynch though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/135 "2009-08-10T03:02:23Z")
Give it more time: We still have until Tuesday, and the weekends are low-activity. We should still see more votes. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/136 "2009-08-10T03:06:26Z")
**Cookies** , at the moment, we need 3 more votes on **ColdPhoenix** or 4 on any of 3 people to lynch them. Would you like to place more votes? I don’t see a whole lot having happened over the weekend. Was everybody out of town? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/137 "2009-08-10T05:05:16Z")
**Vote Scuba** I keep forgetting that we can make multiple votes. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/138 "2009-08-10T13:15:26Z")
Me and my big mouth. Oops. Just to revive discussion, **Cookies** – and everyone else --, what good reasons do you have for me to unvote you? ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/139 "2009-08-10T13:41:32Z")
Not much talk over the weekend. To be expected as people aren’t in the office. 😉 > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Are we really looking at a no-lynch? I hope not and will be placing a number of votes before tomorrow. I will have reasons for all votes (I’ve 4 people in mind at the moment) and will provide them. Some of the reasons are not very strong but I guess that’s to be expected at this early stage. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/140 "2009-08-10T13:45:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t have much time, since we’re about to head off to Yellowstone, but a wrinkle that occurred to me in the rules: It looks like we might end up lynching an officer, which would mean that I would spend toNight as Engineer. It wouldn’t do any good for me to watch myself, which means that the Mutineers could kill me (and effectively block both investigations) with impunity. To remedy this, I recommend one of three possible solutions: > 1: The XO can promote me > 2: The XO can demote me > 3: The Captain and Security Chief can throw an officer (including me) in the Brig after I put in my examination order > Any one of these would result in me not being the Engineer tonight, so whomever the Engineer is could then (at least potentially) watch me. My preference is for a promotion or demotion, but obviously it’s not my choice to make. > > In case you decide on the brig option, I need to have my examination order in before-hand, so > **Examine Ichini Sanshigo** > I picked **Ichini** because I think that the other two top officers might have a shorter life expectancy, and if I end up confirming someone Town, it’s best if we can keep that person around for a while. Good spot. If, as more votes come in, it looks like someone of higher rank than you is going to be lynched, I’ll order your arrest. What does my Security Chief think about this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896.md?page=8)